All Blacks 2024
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
When the ABs were at their peak in 2015 we had our best players playing in their specialist positions. ie. Conrad Smith was seen as purely a centre, Nonu as a 12, Kaino as a 6. McCaw as a 7, Read as an 8, Carter as a 10 etc etc. We achieved consistently excellent results because selection wasn't based on the bullshit that we see today.
I reckon you'd find there was a bit more shifting around than you recall.
Just in the 2015 RWC Final, SBW replaced Conrad at halftime and played at centre - a position he only ever once started in for the ABs.
Beaudy came on for NMS - I pretty sure at fullback and pushed Ben Smith to the right wing.
Beaudy was also our first five reserve and started there in at least one of the pool matches.
No. SBW played 12 and Nonu moved out one. Was previewed against Samoa, something at the time I thought was random.
@pakman Your memory is better than mine.
Doesn't change the gist of what I was saying about utility in 2015.
They also pulled Conrad for SBW in the QF vs France. Do you recall who played 2nd five in that game. It would be odd if they played SBW at centre.
n.b. on reflection, I also suspect Vito played wing rather than centre, but I definitely can't remember that game.
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@pakman Your memory is better than mine.
Doesn't change the gist of what I was saying about utility in 2015.
They also pulled Conrad for SBW in the QF vs France. Do you recall who played 2nd five in that game. It would be odd if they played SBW at centre.
n.b. on reflection, I also suspect Vito played wing rather than centre, but I definitely can't remember that game.
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Can’t believe people are saying Razor has a Crusaders bias
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/hard-to-see-what-the-all-blacks-are-building-unlike-south-africa/
I had to do a double take on the caption of that article. We weren't "ruthless", and I can't recall many times an AB side has ever been called "rudderless". Dark times
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Can’t believe people are saying Razor has a Crusaders bias
@Yeahtheboys said in All Blacks 2024:
Can’t believe people are saying Razor has a Crusaders bias
https://giphy.com/gifs/lol-laughing-charlie-murphy-l3E6uhDAN3W7vylji
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canerbry said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@junior Precisely. Shittest All Blacks cattle in living memory this year.
This is probably an important point, though not the point you are trying to make, when it comes to Razor. This is the first time he's coached a team that isn't absolutely fucking stacked compared to opposition teams in a long time, if ever. In fact he actually has to get this team beating other teams that, on paper, are stronger than his team. That's all new to him.
That’s not true.
When he first started out in super rugby, the crusaders weren’t stacked, they were full of players yet to make their mark. Mounga being a prime example and they had lost players such as McCaw,Carter.
Not this fucking argument again. Those with international experience (test level) at that time bolded. Doesn't include MABs.
They could run out an AB forward pack, with their AB replacements on the bench in multiple positions, an AB midfield and FB, and at least 10 from the U20s (Strange, Drummy, Hall, Bateman, McKenzie, Mo'unga, Goodhue, Havili, Wainui, Bridge). It's a testament to their development that they got the right pieces at the right time.
Forwards: Michael Alaalatoa, Wyatt Crockett, Oliver Jager, Joe Moody, Tim Perry, Owen Franks, Ben Funnell, Andrew Makalio, Codie Taylor, Scott Barrett, Luke Romano, Quinten Strange, Sam Whitelock, Heiden Bedwell-Curtis, Jed Brown, Mitchell Dunshea, Kieran Read, Pete Samu, Jordan Taufua, Matt Todd.
Backs: Mitchell Drummond, Leon Fukofuka, Bryn Hall, Tim Bateman, Marty McKenzie, Richie Mo'unga, Ryan Crotty, Jack Goodhue, David Havili, Seta Tamanivalu, Sean Wainui, George Bridge, Israel Dagg, Sione Fifita, Mitchell Hunt, Digby Ioane, Jone Macilai, Manasa Mataele.
All of this is not to say that Razor didn't do well, but he did not have a team of fucking no names. He had the AB captain and most of the starting forward pack plus much of the emerging back talent stolen from around the country.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canerbry said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@junior Precisely. Shittest All Blacks cattle in living memory this year.
This is probably an important point, though not the point you are trying to make, when it comes to Razor. This is the first time he's coached a team that isn't absolutely fucking stacked compared to opposition teams in a long time, if ever. In fact he actually has to get this team beating other teams that, on paper, are stronger than his team. That's all new to him.
That’s not true.
When he first started out in super rugby, the crusaders weren’t stacked, they were full of players yet to make their mark. Mounga being a prime example and they had lost players such as McCaw,Carter.
Not this fucking argument again. Those with international experience (test level) at that time bolded. Doesn't include MABs.
They could run out an AB forward pack, with their AB replacements on the bench in multiple positions, an AB midfield and FB, and at least 10 from the U20s (Strange, Drummy, Hall, Bateman, McKenzie, Mo'unga, Goodhue, Havili, Wainui, Bridge). It's a testament to their development that they got the right pieces at the right time.
Forwards: Michael Alaalatoa, Wyatt Crockett, Oliver Jager, Joe Moody, Tim Perry, Owen Franks, Ben Funnell, Andrew Makalio, Codie Taylor, Scott Barrett, Luke Romano, Quinten Strange, Sam Whitelock, Heiden Bedwell-Curtis, Jed Brown, Mitchell Dunshea, Kieran Read, Pete Samu, Jordan Taufua, Matt Todd.
Backs: Mitchell Drummond, Leon Fukofuka, Bryn Hall, Tim Bateman, Marty McKenzie, Richie Mo'unga, Ryan Crotty, Jack Goodhue, David Havili, Seta Tamanivalu, Sean Wainui, George Bridge, Israel Dagg, Sione Fifita, Mitchell Hunt, Digby Ioane, Jone Macilai, Manasa Mataele.
All of this is not to say that Razor didn't do well, but he did not have a team of fucking no names. He had the AB captain and most of the starting forward pack plus much of the emerging back talent stolen from around the country.
Didnt say he had a team of no names as mentioned in a later post.
It was a counter argument to someone saying that Razor has always had teams stacked and far better than other sides he faced.
The Crusaders had not won super rugby for 10 years and had lost a lot of players.
They also had to win the final in Joburg
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@Kiwiwomble If we're only going to pick specialists according to your definition, we won't have any players to choose from.
Scooter and Vaa'i are obviously locks.
Colin Meads played quite a few less tests than Scooter - but started twice as many as a loose forward!
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
He promised much but ultimately failed to deliver because of injury
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
He promised much but ultimately failed to deliver because of injury
Always looked like was running in treacle.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
He promised much but ultimately failed to deliver because of injury
Always looked like was running in treacle.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
He promised much but ultimately failed to deliver because of injury
Always looked like was running in treacle.
Deceptively quick but his job was to give quicker players space to do their thing
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/hard-to-see-what-the-all-blacks-are-building-unlike-south-africa/
Bidwell absolutely loathes the ABs, he posts in The Roar and Rugbypass etc. Every one is shitting on everything about the ABs. At best, e's playing to his audience if I am being generous. It is hard to take anything he writes seriously
I watched the game in a group setting. By the end, most of us were so exasperated by Australia not getting the rub of the green – and infuriated by the All Blacks – that we were wanting to see a Wallaby win.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
He promised much but ultimately failed to deliver because of injury
Always looked like was running in treacle.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
He promised much but ultimately failed to deliver because of injury
Always looked like was running in treacle.
To be fair Conrad did too at times but he made up for it in other areas
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Can’t believe people are saying Razor has a Crusaders bias
@Yeahtheboys said in All Blacks 2024:
Can’t believe people are saying Razor has a Crusaders bias
I’m hoping it’s not so much a crusaders bias but a leaning towards players he already knows and has worked with before and that it might become less obvious as time moves on.
To me this feels not so much like the fozzie appointment but a bit more like Mitchell one atm . Where people are watching with raised eyebrows and starting to think , hang on , what’s going on here ?
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@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B
meads started as a rangy loose forward . . . only switched to lock laterYeah - I guess my point is that no-one these days would consider him anything but a specialist lock.
Interestingly, at 1.92 metres, we'd be a bit concerned that he wouldn't be a tall enough blindside if paired with Ardie!
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Just trying to scratch my head in regards as to why our bench is so ineffective and one possible theory either by bad luck or co-inicedence are all of them (forward reserves esp) just poor at the clean-out?
Amua for instance has been awful at clearing bodies, in Aus1 we had a huge break on in the second half and both him (and I think Tosi) both with fresh legs couldn't shift a singular Aussie defender who then got the turnover.
However this is just a singular instance I remember and cartainly not a concise video analysis.
It's just baffling because theyre all "impact" players - at least when it comes to carrying the ball, but if they come on and can't clear the ruck effectively and we continually concede turnovers then no wonder we can't build anything on attack?
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If I was AB coach, putting injuries and squad selections aside, this is the 23 I'd be gunning for. I think it is far stronger than anything we have put out so far.
Note - these selections put the overall strength of the 23 ahead of the idea that our most experienced players MUST be in the starting 15. Experience off the bench is critical in the modern game.
Stephen Perofeta
Will Jordan
Rieko Ioane
Jordie Barrett
Caleb Clarke
Damian McKenzie
Cameron Roigard
Hoskins Sotutu
Dalton Papali'i
Akira Ioane
Tupo Vaa'i
Scott Barrett
Tyrel Lomax
Codie Taylor
Ethan de GrootSamisoni Taukei'aho
Tamaiti Williams
Pasilio Tosi
Patrick Tuipulotu
Ardie Savea
Cortez Ratima
Beauden Barrett
Anton Lienert-BrownI'd be bringing all of the bench forwards on at about the 50 minute mark, as in terms of 'impact' you get the most impact out of replacing your forwards but you do need to give them at least 30 minutes to get into the game. Pat T for Vaa'i and Ardie for either Sotutu or Akira depending how the game is going.
On the backs, Ratima's speed of pass can be used to up the tempo in the final quarter if needed, and ALB / Beauden are very experienced and cover multiple positions each. ALB coming on allows us to shift Rieko to the wing where he an find a bit more space in the final quarter. Beauden slotting in at 15 where he has had huge success from the bench in the past.
Then selection wise I'd be trying to give game time where possible to the newbies with huge potential: Sititi, Love, Proctor and Plummer. Building their confidence by slotting one or two of them at a time into the main 23 as opposed to them getting game time when we make wholesale changes against a minnow.
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Just trying to scratch my head in regards as to why our bench is so ineffective and one possible theory either by bad luck or co-inicedence are all of them (forward reserves esp) just poor at the clean-out?
Amua for instance has been awful at clearing bodies, in Aus1 we had a huge break on in the second half and both him (and I think Tosi) both with fresh legs couldn't shift a singular Aussie defender who then got the turnover.
However this is just a singular instance I remember and cartainly not a concise video analysis.
It's just baffling because theyre all "impact" players - at least when it comes to carrying the ball, but if they come on and can't clear the ruck effectively and we continually concede turnovers then no wonder we can't build anything on attack?
@Windows97 personally i think we are just starting impact players (and spreading them too thin) and having Utility (ok and everything) players on the bench.....we shold swap a lot of them around, savea, bb even RI on the bench, people like ALB to start
