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All Blacks 2024

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  • MiketheSnowM MiketheSnow

    What’s the classification of a dominant tackle please?

    A Online
    A Online
    African Monkey
    wrote on last edited by
    #6568

    @MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:

    What’s the classification of a dominant tackle please?

    My definition of it is stopping the ball carrier behind the gain line or in their tracks, not allowing the ball carrier to walk forward in contact. @MN5 gave some good examples of that, and I'm sure you'll remember the late Jerry Collins put on an almighty dominant tackle on your countryman Colin Charvis back in 2003.

    They also tend to make less tackles as opposition teams will likely steer away from the more hard hitting tacklers, hence why you see the Carlo Tizzano's, Ethan Blackadder's, Luke Jacobsen's of the world topping tackle counts.

    Shannon Frizzell also made plenty of tackles (apart from the world cup final), most of them around the bootlaces as he wasn't the most dominant of tacklers despite his size.

    P 1 Reply Last reply
    3
    • BovidaeB Offline
      BovidaeB Offline
      Bovidae
      wrote on last edited by
      #6569

      Pretty much as @African-Monkey says, but Jacobson is one of the few dominant tacklers amongst the AB loose forwards. I've never thought of Papalii as a dominant tackler as most of his tackles are around knees or ankles. He is a high volume tackler.

      A B 2 Replies Last reply
      3
      • BovidaeB Bovidae

        Pretty much as @African-Monkey says, but Jacobson is one of the few dominant tacklers amongst the AB loose forwards. I've never thought of Papalii as a dominant tackler as most of his tackles are around knees or ankles. He is a high volume tackler.

        A Online
        A Online
        African Monkey
        wrote on last edited by
        #6570

        @Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:

        Pretty much as @African-Monkey says, but Jacobson is one of the few dominant tacklers amongst the AB loose forwards. I've never thought of Papalii as a dominant tackler as most of his tackles are around knees or ankles. He is a high volume tackler.

        I agree on Papali'i, don't agree as much on Jacobsen. He's workmanlike for me, like Papali'i, may put in the odd good shot, but falls in the high volume worker category for me.

        1 Reply Last reply
        1
        • DuluthD Duluth

          @MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:

          What’s the classification of a dominant tackle please?

          Google suggests it's when the ball carrier has negative post contact metres

          If that's true, smashing a rampaging forward for 0 post contact metres doesn't count but putting a halfback on his arse does

          B Offline
          B Offline
          brodean
          wrote on last edited by
          #6571

          @Duluth

          Yes the general meaning is preventing post contact metres.

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • BovidaeB Bovidae

            Pretty much as @African-Monkey says, but Jacobson is one of the few dominant tacklers amongst the AB loose forwards. I've never thought of Papalii as a dominant tackler as most of his tackles are around knees or ankles. He is a high volume tackler.

            B Offline
            B Offline
            brodean
            wrote on last edited by
            #6572

            @Bovidae

            Papali'i is usually a high volume tackler but he didn't really lead those stats in the AB loose forwards this year.

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • TordahT Offline
              TordahT Offline
              Tordah
              wrote on last edited by
              #6573

              My take on ABs players' stocks after TRC 2024:

              Improved huge amounts:
              Tupou Vai'i
              Caleb Clarke
              Wallace Sititi

              Improved a bit:
              Cortez Ratima
              Codie Taylor
              Tyrel Lomax
              Pasilio Tosi
              Tamaiti Williams
              Sam Darry

              No change:
              George Bell
              George Bower
              Fletcher Newell
              Patrick Tuipulotu
              Josh Lord
              Ethan Blackadder
              Luke Jacobson
              Dalton Papali'i
              Noah Hotham
              Beauden Barrett
              Damian McKenzie
              Harry Plummer
              Jordie Barrett
              David Havili
              Rieko Ioane
              Anton Lienert-Brown
              Billy Proctor
              Will Jordan
              Ruben Love
              Stephen Perofeta

              Decreased:
              Ethan de Groot
              Ofa Tu'ungafasi
              Scott Barrett
              Sam Cane
              Ardie Savea
              Sevu Reece
              Mark Tele'a

              Down the shitter:
              Asafo Aumua
              Samipeni Finau
              TJ Perenara

              Thank you for investing two minutes of your life to get angry at my opinion

              sparkyS 1 Reply Last reply
              12
              • TordahT Tordah

                My take on ABs players' stocks after TRC 2024:

                Improved huge amounts:
                Tupou Vai'i
                Caleb Clarke
                Wallace Sititi

                Improved a bit:
                Cortez Ratima
                Codie Taylor
                Tyrel Lomax
                Pasilio Tosi
                Tamaiti Williams
                Sam Darry

                No change:
                George Bell
                George Bower
                Fletcher Newell
                Patrick Tuipulotu
                Josh Lord
                Ethan Blackadder
                Luke Jacobson
                Dalton Papali'i
                Noah Hotham
                Beauden Barrett
                Damian McKenzie
                Harry Plummer
                Jordie Barrett
                David Havili
                Rieko Ioane
                Anton Lienert-Brown
                Billy Proctor
                Will Jordan
                Ruben Love
                Stephen Perofeta

                Decreased:
                Ethan de Groot
                Ofa Tu'ungafasi
                Scott Barrett
                Sam Cane
                Ardie Savea
                Sevu Reece
                Mark Tele'a

                Down the shitter:
                Asafo Aumua
                Samipeni Finau
                TJ Perenara

                Thank you for investing two minutes of your life to get angry at my opinion

                sparkyS Offline
                sparkyS Offline
                sparky
                wrote on last edited by
                #6574

                @Tordah I'd put DMac (as a 10) in decreased, but I agree with the rest of your judgements.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • B Offline
                  B Offline
                  brodean
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #6575

                  Jeez I've been whinging a bit about Razor but that's quite harsh

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • taniwharugbyT taniwharugby

                    @pakman said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                    @African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                    @MN5 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                    @Stag said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                    @Dan54 because that’s his best position, 6 is Blackadder’s best position and he has been a stellar performer there as well, and 7 is Ardies best position.

                    I didn’t realise the ABs played a bunch of tests that I missed this season

                    Hey come on, he's played a grand total of 14 tests since his debut in 2021,half of those against tier 2 nations. I wouldn't have him there and we've gone on and on about it on here, but it wouldn't surprise me if he slots in at 7 for the 1 test that he's fit for a year. Razor loves him. I'd have Papali'i for the mean time, not because I'm his biggest fan, but I feel like he's reliable enough as a 7 without being spectacular.

                    Savea ain't getting moved from 8, when was the last time he actually played there? 2018? Yet people still keep going on about how he should be there, and yeah Sititi is undroppable these days.

                    What I think they go with.

                    1. Sititi
                    2. Blackadder
                    3. Savea

                    Jacobsen

                    What I'd go with (It won't happen)

                    1. Sititi
                    2. Papali'i
                    3. Savea
                      .
                      Sotutu

                    Clear Blues bias I could be accused for, but it would be nice to have an extra ball carrier off the bench and I feel like Sotutu could really make an impact there if given the opportunity. Papali'i would be my 7 for now, as I said earlier, he's reliable enough there. I would like to see Peter Lakai introduced at some stage, I think he could mke a real case for that 7 jersey going forward.

                    I’d quite like to see a game with Paps at 7, Suafoa at 6 and WS at 8.

                    Give it about 4 months or so...

                    Edit - I misread your initials, thought the last was HS 😄

                    @MN5 I think most of the shade at Frizzell was due to his off field activities.

                    boobooB Online
                    boobooB Online
                    booboo
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #6576

                    @taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024:

                    @pakman said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                    @African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                    @MN5 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                    @Stag said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                    @Dan54 because that’s his best position, 6 is Blackadder’s best position and he has been a stellar performer there as well, and 7 is Ardies best position.

                    I didn’t realise the ABs played a bunch of tests that I missed this season

                    Hey come on, he's played a grand total of 14 tests since his debut in 2021,half of those against tier 2 nations. I wouldn't have him there and we've gone on and on about it on here, but it wouldn't surprise me if he slots in at 7 for the 1 test that he's fit for a year. Razor loves him. I'd have Papali'i for the mean time, not because I'm his biggest fan, but I feel like he's reliable enough as a 7 without being spectacular.

                    Savea ain't getting moved from 8, when was the last time he actually played there? 2018? Yet people still keep going on about how he should be there, and yeah Sititi is undroppable these days.

                    What I think they go with.

                    1. Sititi
                    2. Blackadder
                    3. Savea

                    Jacobsen

                    What I'd go with (It won't happen)

                    1. Sititi
                    2. Papali'i
                    3. Savea
                      .
                      Sotutu

                    Clear Blues bias I could be accused for, but it would be nice to have an extra ball carrier off the bench and I feel like Sotutu could really make an impact there if given the opportunity. Papali'i would be my 7 for now, as I said earlier, he's reliable enough there. I would like to see Peter Lakai introduced at some stage, I think he could mke a real case for that 7 jersey going forward.

                    I’d quite like to see a game with Paps at 7, Suafoa at 6 and WS at 8.

                    Give it about 4 months or so...

                    Edit - I misread your initials, thought the last was HS 😄

                    @MN5 I think most of the shade at Frizzell was due to his off field activities.

                    Off field was part of it, but the fact he never really stood out was the issue IMO.

                    He played a good game in SA (was that 2022?) and the one at Mt Smart. Fairly low percentage.

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • Victor MeldrewV Victor Meldrew

                      @Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2024:

                      @Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                      @LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                      @Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                      @LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                      @Horatio said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                      This is a classic Bledisloe fluffer match for the ABs. An awful, awful Wallabies side to give them confidence they aren't on the wrong trajectory ahead of an EOYT.

                      A real team would have punished them for some of the silly mistakes they made out there.

                      It's the same Wallabies side that didn't entirely get humped by the Springboks, and won away against Argentina. For 120 minutes we owned the Springboks. It may have just been the game they needed to answer some questions.

                      It's the same Wallabies side that's ranked 10th in the world. The one we came close to losing to 2 weeks ago after leading 28-7 when we went to shit in the second half

                      In a dead rubber with nothing to lose this was the perfect game to try new players. Instead Robertson went safety-first with players past their best, learned little and, as far as questions are concerned, answered little

                      Some improvement in focus overall in this game (not hard considering the nadir of 2 weeks ago) but still nowhere near as good as we were this time last year.

                      So a 20 point win is not an improvement? Did we go to shit? Did we score points in the last quarter? Did we blank in the second half?

                      As I said, there was some improvement in focus, but it's bonkers to think not going to pieces and actually scoring points in the last quarter against the 10th based side is some magical, corner-turning improvement. Less than 12 months ago we came within one point of winning the RWC and - to use your words - we owned the Springboks for 75% of the game a few weeks back. Seriously?

                      Your memory is really short. Fosters side got humped 35-7 and was only a freak run from CamRoi from being blanked. Also lost for the first time in a pool match and almost lost to Australia twice.

                      Foster's gone. Live with it and focus on this teams direction.

                      TBF you're making comparisons with the RWC final 12 months ago. Let's face it, that RWC run was a complete anomaly for the Foster era. Give Razor Smith, Whitelock and RM and I dare say we'd be seeing some better results.

                      Not buying that. We haven't struggled much at 9 since injury put Christie out of the picture and zero drop-off with Scooter and Vaai and, let's face it, Mo'unga was a pretty average AB 10. The players who've dropped away have been the likes of Telea & Savea.

                      Ultimately I like what Razor is trying to achieve here, but we don't have the cattle to pull it off just yet.

                      Moving the goalposts there. Anyone who pointed that out last year was told it wasn't a problem, we had the cattle and it was all down to the coaching team.....

                      That's obviously on him to plan according to the strengths of what's available, but I feel there are plenty of positive signs

                      Sure, there are some positive signs. Players picked in the last couple of years have stepped up, forced changes from injuries have allowed Ratima and Sititi to shine, there's a bit more fluidity in attack and the D is good. But the mental side of things has gotten worse, much worse.

                      Rancid SchnitzelR Offline
                      Rancid SchnitzelR Offline
                      Rancid Schnitzel
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #6577

                      @Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:

                      @Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2024:

                      @Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                      @LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                      @Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                      @LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                      @Horatio said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                      This is a classic Bledisloe fluffer match for the ABs. An awful, awful Wallabies side to give them confidence they aren't on the wrong trajectory ahead of an EOYT.

                      A real team would have punished them for some of the silly mistakes they made out there.

                      It's the same Wallabies side that didn't entirely get humped by the Springboks, and won away against Argentina. For 120 minutes we owned the Springboks. It may have just been the game they needed to answer some questions.

                      It's the same Wallabies side that's ranked 10th in the world. The one we came close to losing to 2 weeks ago after leading 28-7 when we went to shit in the second half

                      In a dead rubber with nothing to lose this was the perfect game to try new players. Instead Robertson went safety-first with players past their best, learned little and, as far as questions are concerned, answered little

                      Some improvement in focus overall in this game (not hard considering the nadir of 2 weeks ago) but still nowhere near as good as we were this time last year.

                      So a 20 point win is not an improvement? Did we go to shit? Did we score points in the last quarter? Did we blank in the second half?

                      As I said, there was some improvement in focus, but it's bonkers to think not going to pieces and actually scoring points in the last quarter against the 10th based side is some magical, corner-turning improvement. Less than 12 months ago we came within one point of winning the RWC and - to use your words - we owned the Springboks for 75% of the game a few weeks back. Seriously?

                      Your memory is really short. Fosters side got humped 35-7 and was only a freak run from CamRoi from being blanked. Also lost for the first time in a pool match and almost lost to Australia twice.

                      Foster's gone. Live with it and focus on this teams direction.

                      TBF you're making comparisons with the RWC final 12 months ago. Let's face it, that RWC run was a complete anomaly for the Foster era. Give Razor Smith, Whitelock and RM and I dare say we'd be seeing some better results.

                      Not buying that. We haven't struggled much at 9 since injury put Christie out of the picture and zero drop-off with Scooter and Vaai and, let's face it, Mo'unga was a pretty average AB 10. The players who've dropped away have been the likes of Telea & Savea.

                      Ultimately I like what Razor is trying to achieve here, but we don't have the cattle to pull it off just yet.

                      Moving the goalposts there. Anyone who pointed that out last year was told it wasn't a problem, we had the cattle and it was all down to the coaching team.....

                      That's obviously on him to plan according to the strengths of what's available, but I feel there are plenty of positive signs

                      Sure, there are some positive signs. Players picked in the last couple of years have stepped up, forced changes from injuries have allowed Ratima and Sititi to shine, there's a bit more fluidity in attack and the D is good. But the mental side of things has gotten worse, much worse.

                      Completely disagree. RM wasn't the 2nd coming like many here seemed to argue but I think he'd be executing this game plan much better than McKenzie. As impressive as he's sometimes been, Vaai is not Whitelock. No way that's a straight swap.

                      I'm not moving any goalposts. At least there is something of a plan here. Foster ball was all over the damn place. And I would definitely argue that, for this year at least, Foster had better cattle to work with.

                      I'm not seeing how the mental side has gotten vastly worse. Unless I missed the amazing mental fortitude of Foster's AB.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • B Offline
                        B Offline
                        brodean
                        wrote on last edited by brodean
                        #6578

                        For me there are two types of players.

                        Those who have proven they can beat a top 5 team this year without Whitelock, Retallick, Smith etc.

                        And those who haven't.

                        Beat a top 5 side:

                        Ethan de Groot
                        Codie Taylor
                        Tyrel Lomax
                        Scott Barrett
                        Patrick Tuipulotu
                        Samipeni Finau
                        Dalton Papali'i
                        Ardie Savea
                        Finlay Christie
                        Damian McKenzie
                        Mark Tele'a
                        Jordie Barrett
                        Rieko Ioane
                        Sevu Reece
                        Stephen Perofeta

                        Asafo Aumua
                        Ofa Tu'ungafasi
                        Fletcher Newell
                        Tupou Vaa'i
                        Luke Jacobson
                        Cortez Ratima
                        Anton Lienert-Brown
                        Beauden Barrett
                        TJ Perenara

                        Apart from TJ who is moving on these are all keepers in my book. That team showed grit. There wasn't enough grit in those losses to the Puma's and the Boks.

                        Then there is promising:

                        Will Jordan
                        Caleb Clarke
                        Wallace Sititi
                        Pasilio Tosi
                        Tamaiti Williams
                        Sam Darry
                        Josh Lord
                        Noah Hotham
                        Billy Proctor

                        Then there is promising but sick note so move on to someone more reliable:

                        Ethan Blackadder

                        J 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • B brodean

                          @Rancid-Schnitzel

                          I'm not convinced that Razor's game plan will bring the results we want against Ireland, France, and South Africa.

                          J Offline
                          J Offline
                          Jet
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #6579

                          @brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                          @Rancid-Schnitzel

                          I'm not convinced that Razor's game plan will bring the results we want against Ireland, France, and South Africa.

                          Won’t be beating England at the cabbage patch either.

                          We don’t have any gain line muscle for the tight games.

                          Ireland England and France are going to be attritional with a good chance of wet weather.

                          This team doesn’t have the stomach for it.
                          We concede ground so easily.

                          Entry into our 22 is almost a guaranteed score or yellow card these days.

                          M 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • J Jet

                            @brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                            @Rancid-Schnitzel

                            I'm not convinced that Razor's game plan will bring the results we want against Ireland, France, and South Africa.

                            Won’t be beating England at the cabbage patch either.

                            We don’t have any gain line muscle for the tight games.

                            Ireland England and France are going to be attritional with a good chance of wet weather.

                            This team doesn’t have the stomach for it.
                            We concede ground so easily.

                            Entry into our 22 is almost a guaranteed score or yellow card these days.

                            M Offline
                            M Offline
                            Mr Fish
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #6580

                            @Jet said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                            @brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                            @Rancid-Schnitzel

                            I'm not convinced that Razor's game plan will bring the results we want against Ireland, France, and South Africa.

                            Won’t be beating England at the cabbage patch either.

                            We don’t have any gain line muscle for the tight games.

                            Ireland England and France are going to be attritional with a good chance of wet weather.

                            This team doesn’t have the stomach for it.
                            We concede ground so easily.

                            Entry into our 22 is almost a guaranteed score or yellow card these days.

                            The team did ok against the Springboks in South Africa. And against England in NZ in July when the weather was similar.

                            J 1 Reply Last reply
                            1
                            • M Mr Fish

                              @Jet said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                              @brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                              @Rancid-Schnitzel

                              I'm not convinced that Razor's game plan will bring the results we want against Ireland, France, and South Africa.

                              Won’t be beating England at the cabbage patch either.

                              We don’t have any gain line muscle for the tight games.

                              Ireland England and France are going to be attritional with a good chance of wet weather.

                              This team doesn’t have the stomach for it.
                              We concede ground so easily.

                              Entry into our 22 is almost a guaranteed score or yellow card these days.

                              The team did ok against the Springboks in South Africa. And against England in NZ in July when the weather was similar.

                              J Offline
                              J Offline
                              Jet
                              wrote on last edited by Jet
                              #6581

                              @Mr-Fish said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                              @Jet said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                              @brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                              @Rancid-Schnitzel

                              I'm not convinced that Razor's game plan will bring the results we want against Ireland, France, and South Africa.

                              Won’t be beating England at the cabbage patch either.

                              We don’t have any gain line muscle for the tight games.

                              Ireland England and France are going to be attritional with a good chance of wet weather.

                              This team doesn’t have the stomach for it.
                              We concede ground so easily.

                              Entry into our 22 is almost a guaranteed score or yellow card these days.

                              The team did ok against the Springboks in South Africa. And against England in NZ in July when the weather was similar.

                              These teams grow an arm and a leg at home.

                              England at Twickenham is never easy.
                              Ireland are really well coached, will be on a vendetta after the RWC and it will be a raucous Friday night in Dublin.
                              France have olympic gold and European Cup winning Dupont.

                              I personally think we lose all 3 games, as if England turn us over I feel the heads will drop for the subsequent 2 games.

                              M Victor MeldrewV 2 Replies Last reply
                              0
                              • J Jet

                                @Mr-Fish said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                                @Jet said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                                @brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                                @Rancid-Schnitzel

                                I'm not convinced that Razor's game plan will bring the results we want against Ireland, France, and South Africa.

                                Won’t be beating England at the cabbage patch either.

                                We don’t have any gain line muscle for the tight games.

                                Ireland England and France are going to be attritional with a good chance of wet weather.

                                This team doesn’t have the stomach for it.
                                We concede ground so easily.

                                Entry into our 22 is almost a guaranteed score or yellow card these days.

                                The team did ok against the Springboks in South Africa. And against England in NZ in July when the weather was similar.

                                These teams grow an arm and a leg at home.

                                England at Twickenham is never easy.
                                Ireland are really well coached, will be on a vendetta after the RWC and it will be a raucous Friday night in Dublin.
                                France have olympic gold and European Cup winning Dupont.

                                I personally think we lose all 3 games, as if England turn us over I feel the heads will drop for the subsequent 2 games.

                                M Offline
                                M Offline
                                Mr Fish
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #6582

                                @Jet said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                                @Mr-Fish said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                                @Jet said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                                @brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

                                @Rancid-Schnitzel

                                I'm not convinced that Razor's game plan will bring the results we want against Ireland, France, and South Africa.

                                Won’t be beating England at the cabbage patch either.

                                We don’t have any gain line muscle for the tight games.

                                Ireland England and France are going to be attritional with a good chance of wet weather.

                                This team doesn’t have the stomach for it.
                                We concede ground so easily.

                                Entry into our 22 is almost a guaranteed score or yellow card these days.

                                The team did ok against the Springboks in South Africa. And against England in NZ in July when the weather was similar.

                                These teams grow an arm and a leg at home.

                                England at Twickenham is never easy.
                                Ireland are really well coached, will be on a vendetta after the RWC and it will be a raucous Friday night in Dublin.
                                France have olympic gold and European Cup winning Dupont.

                                I personally think we lose all 3 games, as if England turn us over I feel the heads will drop for the subsequent 2 games.

                                I agree all three teams with difficult and England will be tougher at home than they were in NZ, but to suggest that the All Blacks can't match them for physicality when they basically did exactly that against the Springboks on back to back occasions a few weeks ago seems silly

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • B brodean

                                  For me there are two types of players.

                                  Those who have proven they can beat a top 5 team this year without Whitelock, Retallick, Smith etc.

                                  And those who haven't.

                                  Beat a top 5 side:

                                  Ethan de Groot
                                  Codie Taylor
                                  Tyrel Lomax
                                  Scott Barrett
                                  Patrick Tuipulotu
                                  Samipeni Finau
                                  Dalton Papali'i
                                  Ardie Savea
                                  Finlay Christie
                                  Damian McKenzie
                                  Mark Tele'a
                                  Jordie Barrett
                                  Rieko Ioane
                                  Sevu Reece
                                  Stephen Perofeta

                                  Asafo Aumua
                                  Ofa Tu'ungafasi
                                  Fletcher Newell
                                  Tupou Vaa'i
                                  Luke Jacobson
                                  Cortez Ratima
                                  Anton Lienert-Brown
                                  Beauden Barrett
                                  TJ Perenara

                                  Apart from TJ who is moving on these are all keepers in my book. That team showed grit. There wasn't enough grit in those losses to the Puma's and the Boks.

                                  Then there is promising:

                                  Will Jordan
                                  Caleb Clarke
                                  Wallace Sititi
                                  Pasilio Tosi
                                  Tamaiti Williams
                                  Sam Darry
                                  Josh Lord
                                  Noah Hotham
                                  Billy Proctor

                                  Then there is promising but sick note so move on to someone more reliable:

                                  Ethan Blackadder

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                                  Jet
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #6583

                                  @brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

                                  For me there are two types of players.

                                  Those who have proven they can beat a top 5 team this year without Whitelock, Retallick, Smith etc.

                                  And those who haven't.

                                  Beat a top 5 side:

                                  Ethan de Groot
                                  Codie Taylor
                                  Tyrel Lomax
                                  Scott Barrett
                                  Patrick Tuipulotu
                                  Samipeni Finau
                                  Dalton Papali'i
                                  Ardie Savea
                                  Finlay Christie
                                  Damian McKenzie
                                  Mark Tele'a
                                  Jordie Barrett
                                  Rieko Ioane
                                  Sevu Reece
                                  Stephen Perofeta

                                  Asafo Aumua
                                  Ofa Tu'ungafasi
                                  Fletcher Newell
                                  Tupou Vaa'i
                                  Luke Jacobson
                                  Cortez Ratima
                                  Anton Lienert-Brown
                                  Beauden Barrett
                                  TJ Perenara

                                  Apart from TJ who is moving on these are all keepers in my book. That team showed grit. There wasn't enough grit in those losses to the Puma's and the Boks.

                                  Then there is promising:

                                  Will Jordan
                                  Caleb Clarke
                                  Wallace Sititi
                                  Pasilio Tosi
                                  Tamaiti Williams
                                  Sam Darry
                                  Josh Lord
                                  Noah Hotham
                                  Billy Proctor

                                  Then there is promising but sick note so move on to someone more reliable:

                                  Ethan Blackadder

                                  How is Will Jordan only promising?....I do not understand the hate this bloke gets.

                                  He is on course to be the top try scoring Allblack of all time.......while playing in a less than vintage bunch.

                                  Imagine the amount tries he would have scored outside Carter, Nonu and Conrad, and with their pack giving him quick ball.

                                  He has shown in both Bledisloes everything Barrett has not given us for 5 years.

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                                    brodean
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #6584

                                    Jordan is promising as a test fullback. He didn't look great there initially earlier in the year and we haven't beaten a top 5 team with him at fullback.

                                    He's also had some average games against the top teams on the wing. He can be a bit, dear I say it, mercurial.

                                    If he were from Auckland people would call him a flat track bully.

                                    nzzpN 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • B brodean

                                      Jordan is promising as a test fullback. He didn't look great there initially earlier in the year and we haven't beaten a top 5 team with him at fullback.

                                      He's also had some average games against the top teams on the wing. He can be a bit, dear I say it, mercurial.

                                      If he were from Auckland people would call him a flat track bully.

                                      nzzpN Online
                                      nzzpN Online
                                      nzzp
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #6585

                                      @brodean spot on.

                                      Offensively great ball in hand.

                                      But kicking, defense and even hard carries are not his visible strengths. That can change - Beauden Barrett was an absolute turnstile on defence when he started - but I am far from frothing over him at 15. He's a bit like Lelia Masaga - massive gifts going forward, but other weaknesses make him a brave choiced

                                      gt12G 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • nzzpN nzzp

                                        @brodean spot on.

                                        Offensively great ball in hand.

                                        But kicking, defense and even hard carries are not his visible strengths. That can change - Beauden Barrett was an absolute turnstile on defence when he started - but I am far from frothing over him at 15. He's a bit like Lelia Masaga - massive gifts going forward, but other weaknesses make him a brave choiced

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                                        gt12
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #6586

                                        @nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:

                                        @brodean spot on.

                                        Offensively great ball in hand.

                                        But kicking, defense and even hard carries are not his visible strengths. That can change - Beauden Barrett was an absolute turnstile on defence when he started - but I am far from frothing over him at 15. He's a bit like Lelia Masaga - massive gifts going forward, but other weaknesses make him a brave choiced

                                        Masaga, Ouch!

                                        He's a fair bit better than him, but Jordan's positioning has been really up and down - sometimes he's absolutely nowhere and at other times he's predicted play perfectly.

                                        I'm not convinced about his kicking game which will get more important, and his ability to look for mismatches will get less likely to be successful against the better NH sides.

                                        With him at FB there isn't an obvious wing/FB to provide help in the backfield - although, I guess we could just throw in Fihaki and problem solved 🙂

                                        All in all, I'm still not completely sold on him at 15 - it's not clear to me yet that our best team has him at 15, especially when the other 14s look like absolute dogshit.

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                                        • canefanC canefan

                                          Rassie is out thinking Razor right now. He realises how short the time is between RWCs, he realises a number of his senior players won't make it to the next cup. He's working hard to run the rule over his pool of young players, trying to work out who can step up, creating depth. Razor does not appear to be feeling the clock ticking, based on his selection policy to date

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                                          antipodean
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #6587

                                          @canefan said in All Blacks 2024:

                                          Rassie is out thinking Razor right now. He realises how short the time is between RWCs, he realises a number of his senior players won't make it to the next cup. He's working hard to run the rule over his pool of young players, trying to work out who can step up, creating depth. Razor does not appear to be feeling the clock ticking, based on his selection policy to date

                                          He has the benefit of not having a general public demand they win every game.

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