All Blacks 2024
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
From the All Blacks Savea is ranked 19th for turnovers conceded per carry.
Do they split out players who turned over the ball because the cleaners weren't fast or accurate enough from the players that just spilt it cold in the tackle..?
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
From the All Blacks Savea is ranked 19th for turnovers conceded per carry.
Do they split out players who turned over the ball because the cleaners weren't fast or accurate enough from the players that just spilt it cold in the tackle..?
When Akira Ioane turned the ball over it was because he ran away from his support or didn't stay on his feet long enough but when Ethan Blackadder turned the ball over it was because the support runners/cleaners weren't quick enough.
There's all kinds of double standards for favourites.
Savea does whats needed to retain the ball. He runs the ball closer to the middle than what Taylor does.
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Taylor spends all his time out on the wing. Savea is very rarely on the wing.
BTW I'm not arguing that Savea should be retained at 8. I'm saying he's not been as bad as some are claiming and Cane has been a lot worse.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Taylor spends all his time out on the wing
Well that's BS too he has carried up the guts a lot this season.
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No he hasn't. He's very ineffective close in. He makes metres in the open and that's been his way his entire career. It's chalk and cheese when you compare him to Taukei'aho.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
No he hasn't. He's very ineffective close in. He makes metres in the open.
Yes he has watch the games.That is BS Savea is positioned in the centres mostly running at the opposition backline.
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A perfect example is the weekend when the AB's tight five were completely ineffective making metres up the middle until William's came on. Taylor regularly pops up on the wing in every game.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
A perfect example is the weekend when the AB's tight five were completely ineffective making metres up the middle until William's came on.
I agree Savea made a shitload off those carries and was ineffective as was Degroot.
Taylor did get over the advantage line. -
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
A perfect example is the weekend when the AB's tight five were completely ineffective making metres up the middle until William's came on.
I agree Savea made a shitload off those carries and was ineffective as was Degroot.
Taylor did get over the advantage line.Total Impacts Per 80 Minutes 2025
(Impacts) tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten + turnovers won + dominant tacklesForwards
8.16 Sititi
6.39 Savea
5.19 Aumua
4.75 Finau
3.74 Darry
3.46 TaylorThat's top 6. Some how Savea has done nothing while Taylor has done it all.
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Total Impacts Per 80 Minutes 2025
(Impacts) tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten + turnovers won + dominant tacklesForwards
8.16 Sititi
6.39 Savea
5.19 Aumua
4.75 Finau
3.74 Darry
3.46 TaylorThat's top 6. Some how Savea has done nothing while Taylor has done it all.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Total Impacts Per 80 Minutes 2025
(Impacts) tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten + turnovers won + dominant tacklesForwards
8.16 Sititi
6.39 Savea
5.19 Aumua
4.75 Finau
3.74 Darry
3.46 TaylorThat's top 6. Some how Savea has done nothing while Taylor has done it all.
And somehow Finau and Aumua who have been average are there.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Total Impacts Per 80 Minutes 2025
(Impacts) tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten + turnovers won + dominant tacklesForwards
8.16 Sititi
6.39 Savea
5.19 Aumua
4.75 Finau
3.74 Darry
3.46 TaylorThat's top 6. Some how Savea has done nothing while Taylor has done it all.
And somehow Finau and Aumua who have been average are there.
Both Aumua, and Finau have helped us get our only wins this year against a top 5 team.
Who is your loose forward trio?
Would you have at hooker instead of Aumua?
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Total Impacts Per 80 Minutes 2025
(Impacts) tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten + turnovers won + dominant tacklesForwards
8.16 Sititi
6.39 Savea
5.19 Aumua
4.75 Finau
3.74 Darry
3.46 TaylorThat's top 6. Some how Savea has done nothing while Taylor has done it all.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Total Impacts Per 80 Minutes 2025
(Impacts) tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten + turnovers won + dominant tacklesForwards
8.16 Sititi
6.39 Savea
5.19 Aumua
4.75 Finau
3.74 Darry
3.46 TaylorThat's top 6. Some how Savea has done nothing while Taylor has done it all.
how many straight lineout has savea thrown? its almost as if different roles have different criteria
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Total Impacts Per 80 Minutes 2025
(Impacts) tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten + turnovers won + dominant tacklesForwards
8.16 Sititi
6.39 Savea
5.19 Aumua
4.75 Finau
3.74 Darry
3.46 TaylorThat's top 6. Some how Savea has done nothing while Taylor has done it all.
how many straight lineout has savea thrown? its almost as if different roles have different criteria
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I don't recall Savea throwing into the lineout.
@brodean thats the point, taylor isn't high on that list.....but under different criteria (because his role is different).....he's much better
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Total Impacts Per 80 Minutes 2025
(Impacts) tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten + turnovers won + dominant tacklesForwards
8.16 Sititi
6.39 Savea
5.19 Aumua
4.75 Finau
3.74 Darry
3.46 TaylorThat's top 6. Some how Savea has done nothing while Taylor has done it all.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Total Impacts Per 80 Minutes 2025
(Impacts) tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten + turnovers won + dominant tacklesForwards
8.16 Sititi
6.39 Savea
5.19 Aumua
4.75 Finau
3.74 Darry
3.46 TaylorThat's top 6. Some how Savea has done nothing while Taylor has done it all.
Breakdown impact per tackle and the impact per metres gain in which area of the field running against tight forwards or inside backs etc
You can quote stats all you like it doesn’t show up on a spreadsheet how it relates to the game situation.
It is not a bible to quote from. -
@brodean thats the point, taylor isn't high on that list.....but under different criteria (because his role is different).....he's much better
Lineout throwing was never the comparison with Savea. Stop changing the goal posts.
The claim was that Taylor was doing more with his carries than Savea because he was making more metres but Taylor is actually actually having less impact even though he's making more metres.
The other claim was Savea has been in poor form and lacking impact but he's the 2nd most impactful attack/defense forward.
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Lineout throwing was never the comparison with Savea. Stop changing the goal posts.
The claim was that Taylor was doing more with his carries than Savea because he was making more metres but Taylor is actually actually having less impact even though he's making more metres.
The other claim was Savea has been in poor form and lacking impact but he's the 2nd most impactful attack/defense forward.
@brodean i never said it was, i only said those that were happy with taylor have other things effecting their impression of if he'd had a good game
the claim was actually the Taylor got over the advantage line...and meters gained doesnt seem to be one of the criteria for impacts per 80 min
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Total Impacts Per 80 Minutes 2025
(Impacts) tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten + turnovers won + dominant tacklesForwards
8.16 Sititi
6.39 Savea
5.19 Aumua
4.75 Finau
3.74 Darry
3.46 TaylorThat's top 6. Some how Savea has done nothing while Taylor has done it all.
Breakdown impact per tackle and the impact per metres gain in which area of the field running against tight forwards or inside backs etc
You can quote stats all you like it doesn’t show up on a spreadsheet how it relates to the game situation.
It is not a bible to quote from.I'm not claiming it's a bible but you should be able to get an indication and support of an idea in stats but there isn't any indication in these stats that support the negative comments about Savea . There is nothing to suggest that Savea has been poor, dropping the ball more than others, and lacking impact. There's plenty to support that for Sam Cane.
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@brodean i never said it was, i only said those that were happy with taylor have other things effecting their impression of if he'd had a good game
the claim was actually the Taylor got over the advantage line...and meters gained doesnt seem to be one of the criteria for impacts per 80 min
Taylor was only brought up in relation to Savea to prove that Savea was ineffective.
I'm very happy with Taylor's form. He's in career best form. I'm not bagging him. I'm saying open running is his strength and not close in running.
However we should start Williams over De Groot to have a better balance in the tight forwards for close in runners because De Groot, Lomax, Barrett and Vaa'i are pretty ineffective in that area.
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I'm not claiming it's a bible but you should be able to get an indication and support of an idea in stats but there isn't any indication in these stats that support the negative comments about Savea . There is nothing to suggest that Savea has been poor, dropping the ball more than others, and lacking impact. There's plenty to support that for Sam Cane.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
I'm not claiming it's a bible but you should be able to get an indication and support of an idea in stats but there isn't any indication in these stats that support the negative comments about Savea . There is nothing to suggest that Savea has been poor, dropping the ball more than others, and lacking impact. There's plenty to support that for Sam Cane.
Cane has been poor for me no doubt but Savea has too .
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Top 5 dominant tackles per 80 minutes this season:
1.77 Luke Jacobson
1.76 Ofa Tu'ungafasi
1.75 Patrick Tuipulotu
1.4 Sam Darry
1.36 Samipeni FinauWallace Sititi has been great but he isn't in the top 10 for dominant tackles which is something we've come to expect from a blindside.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Top 5 dominant tackles per 80 minutes this season:
1.77 Luke Jacobson
1.76 Ofa Tu'ungafasi
1.75 Patrick Tuipulotu
1.4 Sam Darry
1.36 Samipeni FinauWallace Sititi has been great but he isn't in the top 10 for dominant tackles which is something we've come to expect from a blindside.
If LJ at 7 and WS at 6 the former provides the hard shoulder. Can’t see any reason why they couldn’t alternate at scrum time depending on field position.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
What’s the classification of a dominant tackle please?
My definition of it is stopping the ball carrier behind the gain line or in their tracks, not allowing the ball carrier to walk forward in contact. @MN5 gave some good examples of that, and I'm sure you'll remember the late Jerry Collins put on an almighty dominant tackle on your countryman Colin Charvis back in 2003.
They also tend to make less tackles as opposition teams will likely steer away from the more hard hitting tacklers, hence why you see the Carlo Tizzano's, Ethan Blackadder's, Luke Jacobsen's of the world topping tackle counts.
Shannon Frizzell also made plenty of tackles (apart from the world cup final), most of them around the bootlaces as he wasn't the most dominant of tacklers despite his size.
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
What’s the classification of a dominant tackle please?
My definition of it is stopping the ball carrier behind the gain line or in their tracks, not allowing the ball carrier to walk forward in contact. @MN5 gave some good examples of that, and I'm sure you'll remember the late Jerry Collins put on an almighty dominant tackle on your countryman Colin Charvis back in 2003.
They also tend to make less tackles as opposition teams will likely steer away from the more hard hitting tacklers, hence why you see the Carlo Tizzano's, Ethan Blackadder's, Luke Jacobsen's of the world topping tackle counts.
Shannon Frizzell also made plenty of tackles (apart from the world cup final), most of them around the bootlaces as he wasn't the most dominant of tacklers despite his size.
A tree felling low tackle with a jackler looming is arguably as effective as a dominant tackle. Think tackling low worked well for ABs against Boks and less risk of cards.
That said, one of my fondest rugby memories is of Larkham ghosting in at pace from fullback for Brumbies against Blues beating three but unexpectedly encountering Michael Jones lurking behind one of the blokes he’d skinned.
He stopped absolutely dead.
The ghosting run wasn’t seen again in that game.
