All Blacks 2024
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2024:
Probably not the right thread, but I’m not sure where else to ask , I guess he is a potential future AB so it’s a bit related .
Has there been much interest in nz with Joey manu switching to rugby ? And the questions about what level he can go to , and what position he would play etc ?
No, because he's gone to Japan and seemingly indicated he's going to switch right back to league if he can't get selected for the All Blacks out of Japan - which is never going to happen for a multitude of reasons.
Ok , beaver on senz reckons after Japan he is going to the chiefs .
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2024:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2024:
Probably not the right thread, but I’m not sure where else to ask , I guess he is a potential future AB so it’s a bit related .
Has there been much interest in nz with Joey manu switching to rugby ? And the questions about what level he can go to , and what position he would play etc ?
No, because he's gone to Japan and seemingly indicated he's going to switch right back to league if he can't get selected for the All Blacks out of Japan - which is never going to happen for a multitude of reasons.
Ok , beaver on senz reckons after Japan he is going to the chiefs .
To be fair, I might be slightly misremembering what I've read.
But until he signs for an NZ team (or indicates he'd like to play in NZ), he's probably not going to be on many people's radars.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2024:
Probably not the right thread, but I’m not sure where else to ask , I guess he is a potential future AB so it’s a bit related .
Has there been much interest in nz with Joey manu switching to rugby ? And the questions about what level he can go to , and what position he would play etc ?
No, because he's gone to Japan and seemingly indicated he's going to switch right back to league if he can't get selected for the All Blacks out of Japan - which is never going to happen for a multitude of reasons.
Ok , beaver on senz reckons after Japan he is going to the chiefs .
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2024:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2024:
Probably not the right thread, but I’m not sure where else to ask , I guess he is a potential future AB so it’s a bit related .
Has there been much interest in nz with Joey manu switching to rugby ? And the questions about what level he can go to , and what position he would play etc ?
No, because he's gone to Japan and seemingly indicated he's going to switch right back to league if he can't get selected for the All Blacks out of Japan - which is never going to happen for a multitude of reasons.
Ok , beaver on senz reckons after Japan he is going to the chiefs .
I guess that means 2026?
Looking at the fixtures the start of the Japanese season is late Dec and the final is played at the begining of June
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I disagree on that because currently we have good depth in props and locks the most important positions in the team. We can take on anyone and have a good chance with the right headspace attitude.
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
I disagree on that because currently we have good depth in props and locks the most important positions in the team. We can take on anyone and have a good chance with the right headspace attitude.
Yea but also right the game plan.
If our tight is our strength at the moment, why are we still seeking to play a wide game that exposes our slow back row, “flaky” first five, “sub-par” centre pairing, and slow back three? Why are we not playing to the areas of strength in our team? Are we too proud to use our scrum to bludgeon the opposition and win territory and points? Or are we just deluding ourselves that we still have the best talent in the world across the park?
*By “we” I’m really referring to the coaching team
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2024:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2024:
Probably not the right thread, but I’m not sure where else to ask , I guess he is a potential future AB so it’s a bit related .
Has there been much interest in nz with Joey manu switching to rugby ? And the questions about what level he can go to , and what position he would play etc ?
No, because he's gone to Japan and seemingly indicated he's going to switch right back to league if he can't get selected for the All Blacks out of Japan - which is never going to happen for a multitude of reasons.
Ok , beaver on senz reckons after Japan he is going to the chiefs .
I guess that means 2026?
Looking at the fixtures the start of the Japanese season is late Dec and the final is played at the begining of June
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Manu is on a 1 year deal. He wants to try for the AB’s so to do that he would need to be in NZ as the rules currently stand. He will be learning his craft around some of the best - Aaron Smith, Beauden Barrett, Ian Foster and Steve Hansen. Some pretty good guys to be rubbing shoulders with.
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phenomenal rugby league centre. Great running game, skillful offload game.
Obvious rugby league body height issues on both sides of the ball. Not a great passing game. Doesn't have high end pace.
Worst of all he's 28. That's very long in the tooth to be changing up and hoping to make test grade. Chances of him being anymore than a "lets see if we can make this work" AB squaddie are very very low.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
I disagree on that because currently we have good depth in props and locks the most important positions in the team. We can take on anyone and have a good chance with the right headspace attitude.
Yea but also right the game plan.
If our tight is our strength at the moment, why are we still seeking to play a wide game that exposes our slow back row, “flaky” first five, “sub-par” centre pairing, and slow back three? Why are we not playing to the areas of strength in our team? Are we too proud to use our scrum to bludgeon the opposition and win territory and points? Or are we just deluding ourselves that we still have the best talent in the world across the park?
*By “we” I’m really referring to the coaching team
@junior said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
I disagree on that because currently we have good depth in props and locks the most important positions in the team. We can take on anyone and have a good chance with the right headspace attitude.
Yea but also right the game plan.
If our tight is our strength at the moment, why are we still seeking to play a wide game that exposes our slow back row, “flaky” first five, “sub-par” centre pairing, and slow back three? Why are we not playing to the areas of strength in our team? Are we too proud to use our scrum to bludgeon the opposition and win territory and points? Or are we just deluding ourselves that we still have the best talent in the world across the park?
*By “we” I’m really referring to the coaching team
pretty damning we cant come up with different gameplans to compliment our strengths
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
I disagree on that because currently we have good depth in props and locks the most important positions in the team. We can take on anyone and have a good chance with the right headspace attitude.
Yea but also right the game plan.
If our tight is our strength at the moment, why are we still seeking to play a wide game that exposes our slow back row, “flaky” first five, “sub-par” centre pairing, and slow back three? Why are we not playing to the areas of strength in our team? Are we too proud to use our scrum to bludgeon the opposition and win territory and points? Or are we just deluding ourselves that we still have the best talent in the world across the park?
*By “we” I’m really referring to the coaching team
@junior said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
I disagree on that because currently we have good depth in props and locks the most important positions in the team. We can take on anyone and have a good chance with the right headspace attitude.
Yea but also right the game plan.
If our tight is our strength at the moment, why are we still seeking to play a wide game that exposes our slow back row, “flaky” first five, “sub-par” centre pairing, and slow back three? Why are we not playing to the areas of strength in our team? Are we too proud to use our scrum to bludgeon the opposition and win territory and points? Or are we just deluding ourselves that we still have the best talent in the world across the park?
*By “we” I’m really referring to the coaching team
It's not our strength, really. We have good props and hookers, but not great. They'll at least hold their own against anyone, but they won't bully top teams. Locks? Same deal at best. Vaai has stepped up, but Barrett is the only proven one and he's a bit on the short side.
Our points of difference vs the top teams are guys like McKenzie, Jordan, Clarke. -
Did anyone else watch the full interview with Ryan on the Aotearoa pod? Some good stuff there but also a very worrying acceptance and explaining away of test losses. I find it amazing that it hasn't been brought up - they talk about the ABs against the Boks as if we are a development team, just accepting the two losses as ‘we had an opportunity to win both games’.
I’m very concerned about the fact that they are relying on Cane to set standards. What are the coaches and management team doing?
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Did anyone else watch the full interview with Ryan on the Aotearoa pod? Some good stuff there but also a very worrying acceptance and explaining away of test losses. I find it amazing that it hasn't been brought up - they talk about the ABs against the Boks as if we are a development team, just accepting the two losses as ‘we had an opportunity to win both games’.
I’m very concerned about the fact that they are relying on Cane to set standards. What are the coaches and management team doing?
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
Did anyone else watch the full interview with Ryan on the Aotearoa pod? Some good stuff there but also a very worrying acceptance and explaining away of test losses. I find it amazing that it has been brought up - they talk about the ABs against the Boks as if we are a development team, just accepting the two losses as ‘we had an opportunity to win both games’.
I’m very concerned about the fact that they are relying on Cane to set standards. What are the coaches and management team doing?
I agree it's concerning and I also think Cane is the wrong guy to set standards. He's been very inconsistent during the 20s
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Nah senior players set standards. Senior players doing carries way more weight than coaches talking.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
Did anyone else watch the full interview with Ryan on the Aotearoa pod? Some good stuff there but also a very worrying acceptance and explaining away of test losses. I find it amazing that it has been brought up - they talk about the ABs against the Boks as if we are a development team, just accepting the two losses as ‘we had an opportunity to win both games’.
I’m very concerned about the fact that they are relying on Cane to set standards. What are the coaches and management team doing?
I agree it's concerning and I also think Cane is the wrong guy to set standards. He's been very inconsistent during the 20s
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
Did anyone else watch the full interview with Ryan on the Aotearoa pod? Some good stuff there but also a very worrying acceptance and explaining away of test losses. I find it amazing that it has been brought up - they talk about the ABs against the Boks as if we are a development team, just accepting the two losses as ‘we had an opportunity to win both games’.
I’m very concerned about the fact that they are relying on Cane to set standards. What are the coaches and management team doing?
I agree it's concerning and I also think Cane is the wrong guy to set standards. He's been very inconsistent during the 20s
He's the link from the standards set by Mealamu, GOAT, etc. The new kids have no idea until guys from the back of the bus set the expectation.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
Did anyone else watch the full interview with Ryan on the Aotearoa pod? Some good stuff there but also a very worrying acceptance and explaining away of test losses. I find it amazing that it has been brought up - they talk about the ABs against the Boks as if we are a development team, just accepting the two losses as ‘we had an opportunity to win both games’.
I’m very concerned about the fact that they are relying on Cane to set standards. What are the coaches and management team doing?
I agree it's concerning and I also think Cane is the wrong guy to set standards. He's been very inconsistent during the 20s
He's the link from the standards set by Mealamu, GOAT, etc. The new kids have no idea until guys from the back of the bus set the expectation.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
Did anyone else watch the full interview with Ryan on the Aotearoa pod? Some good stuff there but also a very worrying acceptance and explaining away of test losses. I find it amazing that it has been brought up - they talk about the ABs against the Boks as if we are a development team, just accepting the two losses as ‘we had an opportunity to win both games’.
I’m very concerned about the fact that they are relying on Cane to set standards. What are the coaches and management team doing?
I agree it's concerning and I also think Cane is the wrong guy to set standards. He's been very inconsistent during the 20s
He's the link from the standards set by Mealamu, GOAT, etc. The new kids have no idea until guys from the back of the bus set the expectation.
Agreed and Cane is probably a great guy to do that. But it's bloody worrying we still shipped points like confetti when he was playing and setting standards.
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The doom on here is OTT. We nearly won the WC, nearly beat the generationally great SA side in SA, unearthed some tremendous new talent in Williams, Vaai, Sititi and Roigard, and had Whitelock/BBBR and A Smith retire.
Glass half full.@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The doom on here is OTT. We nearly won the WC, nearly beat the generationally great SA side in SA, unearthed some tremendous new talent in Williams, Vaai, Sititi and Roigard, and had Whitelock/BBBR and A Smith retire.
Glass half full.I don't think this South Africa team is as good as they are being made out.
They are doing a lot of things right, but I think most Allblack sides from 2004-2016 would deal with them handily.
They know their assignment. They have harmony in the camp. Their coach plays a blinder with the media and refs. They are developing depth as they win.
But they have also gamed a lot of the fringe laws and etiquettes of the game. Bogey HIA's, time wasting, strategic injuries. Physios and water carriers on the pitch at inopportune moments. Players feigning injuries and asking Siya to get the ref to check it (im looking at you Marx and Le Roux).
This Allblack vintage is pure dysfunctional muck and South Africa are only beating them by less than a score.
South Africa doesnt really blow anyone away.
They are up against the worst NZ and worst Aussie sides of recent times, and lost to Argentina.
Are they the best team on the circuit at the moment? Probably.
But in the land of the blind the one eyed man is King.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The doom on here is OTT. We nearly won the WC, nearly beat the generationally great SA side in SA, unearthed some tremendous new talent in Williams, Vaai, Sititi and Roigard, and had Whitelock/BBBR and A Smith retire.
Glass half full.I don't think this South Africa team is as good as they are being made out.
They are doing a lot of things right, but I think most Allblack sides from 2004-2016 would deal with them handily.
They know their assignment. They have harmony in the camp. Their coach plays a blinder with the media and refs. They are developing depth as they win.
But they have also gamed a lot of the fringe laws and etiquettes of the game. Bogey HIA's, time wasting, strategic injuries. Physios and water carriers on the pitch at inopportune moments. Players feigning injuries and asking Siya to get the ref to check it (im looking at you Marx and Le Roux).
This Allblack vintage is pure dysfunctional muck and South Africa are only beating them by less than a score.
South Africa doesnt really blow anyone away.
They are up against the worst NZ and worst Aussie sides of recent times, and lost to Argentina.
Are they the best team on the circuit at the moment? Probably.
But in the land of the blind the one eyed man is King.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The doom on here is OTT. We nearly won the WC, nearly beat the generationally great SA side in SA, unearthed some tremendous new talent in Williams, Vaai, Sititi and Roigard, and had Whitelock/BBBR and A Smith retire.
Glass half full.I don't think this South Africa team is as good as they are being made out.
They are doing a lot of things right, but I think most Allblack sides from 2004-2016 would deal with them handily.
They know their assignment. They have harmony in the camp. Their coach plays a blinder with the media and refs. They are developing depth as they win.
But they have also gamed a lot of the fringe laws and etiquettes of the game. Bogey HIA's, time wasting, strategic injuries. Physios and water carriers on the pitch at inopportune moments. Players feigning injuries and asking Siya to get the ref to check it (im looking at you Marx and Le Roux).
This Allblack vintage is pure dysfunctional muck and South Africa are only beating them by less than a score.
South Africa doesnt really blow anyone away.
They are up against the worst NZ and worst Aussie sides of recent times, and lost to Argentina.
Are they the best team on the circuit at the moment? Probably.
But in the land of the blind the one eyed man is King.
I think what they do well is execute the basics to the highest of standards, and that tends to serve you well in high pressure scenarios.
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@junior said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
I disagree on that because currently we have good depth in props and locks the most important positions in the team. We can take on anyone and have a good chance with the right headspace attitude.
Yea but also right the game plan.
If our tight is our strength at the moment, why are we still seeking to play a wide game that exposes our slow back row, “flaky” first five, “sub-par” centre pairing, and slow back three? Why are we not playing to the areas of strength in our team? Are we too proud to use our scrum to bludgeon the opposition and win territory and points? Or are we just deluding ourselves that we still have the best talent in the world across the park?
*By “we” I’m really referring to the coaching team
It's not our strength, really. We have good props and hookers, but not great. They'll at least hold their own against anyone, but they won't bully top teams. Locks? Same deal at best. Vaai has stepped up, but Barrett is the only proven one and he's a bit on the short side.
Our points of difference vs the top teams are guys like McKenzie, Jordan, Clarke.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@junior said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
I disagree on that because currently we have good depth in props and locks the most important positions in the team. We can take on anyone and have a good chance with the right headspace attitude.
Yea but also right the game plan.
If our tight is our strength at the moment, why are we still seeking to play a wide game that exposes our slow back row, “flaky” first five, “sub-par” centre pairing, and slow back three? Why are we not playing to the areas of strength in our team? Are we too proud to use our scrum to bludgeon the opposition and win territory and points? Or are we just deluding ourselves that we still have the best talent in the world across the park?
*By “we” I’m really referring to the coaching team
It's not our strength, really. We have good props and hookers, but not great. They'll at least hold their own against anyone, but they won't bully top teams. Locks? Same deal at best. Vaai has stepped up, but Barrett is the only proven one and he's a bit on the short side.
Our points of difference vs the top teams are guys like McKenzie, Jordan, Clarke.I think an axis of Sititi - Ratima/Roigard - DMac could be a POD
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@junior said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
I disagree on that because currently we have good depth in props and locks the most important positions in the team. We can take on anyone and have a good chance with the right headspace attitude.
Yea but also right the game plan.
If our tight is our strength at the moment, why are we still seeking to play a wide game that exposes our slow back row, “flaky” first five, “sub-par” centre pairing, and slow back three? Why are we not playing to the areas of strength in our team? Are we too proud to use our scrum to bludgeon the opposition and win territory and points? Or are we just deluding ourselves that we still have the best talent in the world across the park?
*By “we” I’m really referring to the coaching team
It's not our strength, really. We have good props and hookers, but not great. They'll at least hold their own against anyone, but they won't bully top teams. Locks? Same deal at best. Vaai has stepped up, but Barrett is the only proven one and he's a bit on the short side.
Our points of difference vs the top teams are guys like McKenzie, Jordan, Clarke.I think an axis of Sititi - Ratima/Roigard - DMac could be a POD
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@junior said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
I disagree on that because currently we have good depth in props and locks the most important positions in the team. We can take on anyone and have a good chance with the right headspace attitude.
Yea but also right the game plan.
If our tight is our strength at the moment, why are we still seeking to play a wide game that exposes our slow back row, “flaky” first five, “sub-par” centre pairing, and slow back three? Why are we not playing to the areas of strength in our team? Are we too proud to use our scrum to bludgeon the opposition and win territory and points? Or are we just deluding ourselves that we still have the best talent in the world across the park?
*By “we” I’m really referring to the coaching team
It's not our strength, really. We have good props and hookers, but not great. They'll at least hold their own against anyone, but they won't bully top teams. Locks? Same deal at best. Vaai has stepped up, but Barrett is the only proven one and he's a bit on the short side.
Our points of difference vs the top teams are guys like McKenzie, Jordan, Clarke.I think an axis of Sititi - Ratima/Roigard - DMac could be a POD
Sititi- Ratima- Roigard.
Roigard the next GOAT 10.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@junior said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
I disagree on that because currently we have good depth in props and locks the most important positions in the team. We can take on anyone and have a good chance with the right headspace attitude.
Yea but also right the game plan.
If our tight is our strength at the moment, why are we still seeking to play a wide game that exposes our slow back row, “flaky” first five, “sub-par” centre pairing, and slow back three? Why are we not playing to the areas of strength in our team? Are we too proud to use our scrum to bludgeon the opposition and win territory and points? Or are we just deluding ourselves that we still have the best talent in the world across the park?
*By “we” I’m really referring to the coaching team
It's not our strength, really. We have good props and hookers, but not great. They'll at least hold their own against anyone, but they won't bully top teams. Locks? Same deal at best. Vaai has stepped up, but Barrett is the only proven one and he's a bit on the short side.
Our points of difference vs the top teams are guys like McKenzie, Jordan, Clarke.I think an axis of Sititi - Ratima/Roigard - DMac could be a POD
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@junior said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
I disagree on that because currently we have good depth in props and locks the most important positions in the team. We can take on anyone and have a good chance with the right headspace attitude.
Yea but also right the game plan.
If our tight is our strength at the moment, why are we still seeking to play a wide game that exposes our slow back row, “flaky” first five, “sub-par” centre pairing, and slow back three? Why are we not playing to the areas of strength in our team? Are we too proud to use our scrum to bludgeon the opposition and win territory and points? Or are we just deluding ourselves that we still have the best talent in the world across the park?
*By “we” I’m really referring to the coaching team
It's not our strength, really. We have good props and hookers, but not great. They'll at least hold their own against anyone, but they won't bully top teams. Locks? Same deal at best. Vaai has stepped up, but Barrett is the only proven one and he's a bit on the short side.
Our points of difference vs the top teams are guys like McKenzie, Jordan, Clarke.I think an axis of Sititi - Ratima/Roigard - DMac could be a POD
Agree, though I'm a bit hesitant to annoint Roigard until I see him play a few games post-injury.
That's why I think it's crazy not to have Hoskins in the squad too - he can do things that other guys can't - we shouldn't turn our backs on that sort of potential in exchange for carrying extra battlers. -
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@junior said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
I disagree on that because currently we have good depth in props and locks the most important positions in the team. We can take on anyone and have a good chance with the right headspace attitude.
Yea but also right the game plan.
If our tight is our strength at the moment, why are we still seeking to play a wide game that exposes our slow back row, “flaky” first five, “sub-par” centre pairing, and slow back three? Why are we not playing to the areas of strength in our team? Are we too proud to use our scrum to bludgeon the opposition and win territory and points? Or are we just deluding ourselves that we still have the best talent in the world across the park?
*By “we” I’m really referring to the coaching team
It's not our strength, really. We have good props and hookers, but not great. They'll at least hold their own against anyone, but they won't bully top teams. Locks? Same deal at best. Vaai has stepped up, but Barrett is the only proven one and he's a bit on the short side.
Our points of difference vs the top teams are guys like McKenzie, Jordan, Clarke.I think an axis of Sititi - Ratima/Roigard - DMac could be a POD
Agree, though I'm a bit hesitant to annoint Roigard until I see him play a few games post-injury.
That's why I think it's crazy not to have Hoskins in the squad too - he can do things that other guys can't - we shouldn't turn our backs on that sort of potential in exchange for carrying extra battlers.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@junior said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
I disagree on that because currently we have good depth in props and locks the most important positions in the team. We can take on anyone and have a good chance with the right headspace attitude.
Yea but also right the game plan.
If our tight is our strength at the moment, why are we still seeking to play a wide game that exposes our slow back row, “flaky” first five, “sub-par” centre pairing, and slow back three? Why are we not playing to the areas of strength in our team? Are we too proud to use our scrum to bludgeon the opposition and win territory and points? Or are we just deluding ourselves that we still have the best talent in the world across the park?
*By “we” I’m really referring to the coaching team
It's not our strength, really. We have good props and hookers, but not great. They'll at least hold their own against anyone, but they won't bully top teams. Locks? Same deal at best. Vaai has stepped up, but Barrett is the only proven one and he's a bit on the short side.
Our points of difference vs the top teams are guys like McKenzie, Jordan, Clarke.I think an axis of Sititi - Ratima/Roigard - DMac could be a POD
Agree, though I'm a bit hesitant to annoint Roigard until I see him play a few games post-injury.
That's why I think it's crazy not to have Hoskins in the squad too - he can do things that other guys can't - we shouldn't turn our backs on that sort of potential in exchange for carrying extra battlers.The potential upside of trying out a guy like Hoskins far outweighs any downside. In fact there is no downside. Those who point to his earlier efforts in black as justification for non selection should remember other back rowers who matured and regained their spot in the AB squad after a few years away. Rodders springs to mind
