All Blacks EOYT
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@frugby said in All Blacks EOYT:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks EOYT:
@frugby so if we put aside the two players that are obviously better than Blackadder, there hasn't been any players obviously better? That's not the strongest argument I've ever heard..
You can argue the merits of Sotutu (I won't, I'm bored of it), but Ioane just isn't obviously better. I'm not saying he isn't better, but you're missing the point of what I am getting at.
Well I will grant you Blackadder is obviously better at getting injured far more often and playing far less often.
Quite frankly his continual selection may be damaging to his health.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks EOYT:
@frugby said in All Blacks EOYT:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks EOYT:
@frugby so if we put aside the two players that are obviously better than Blackadder, there hasn't been any players obviously better? That's not the strongest argument I've ever heard..
You can argue the merits of Sotutu (I won't, I'm bored of it), but Ioane just isn't obviously better. I'm not saying he isn't better, but you're missing the point of what I am getting at.
Well I will grant you Blackadder is obviously better at getting injured far more often and playing far less often.
Quite frankly his continual selection may be damaging to his health.
It's tough, torn vaginas are very unpredictable to recover from
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks EOYT:
@frugby said in All Blacks EOYT:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks EOYT:
@frugby so if we put aside the two players that are obviously better than Blackadder, there hasn't been any players obviously better? That's not the strongest argument I've ever heard..
You can argue the merits of Sotutu (I won't, I'm bored of it), but Ioane just isn't obviously better. I'm not saying he isn't better, but you're missing the point of what I am getting at.
Well I will grant you Blackadder is obviously better at getting injured far more often and playing far less often.
Quite frankly his continual selection may be damaging to his health.
It's tough, torn vaginas are very unpredictable to recover from
@canefan said in All Blacks EOYT:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks EOYT:
@frugby said in All Blacks EOYT:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks EOYT:
@frugby so if we put aside the two players that are obviously better than Blackadder, there hasn't been any players obviously better? That's not the strongest argument I've ever heard..
You can argue the merits of Sotutu (I won't, I'm bored of it), but Ioane just isn't obviously better. I'm not saying he isn't better, but you're missing the point of what I am getting at.
Well I will grant you Blackadder is obviously better at getting injured far more often and playing far less often.
Quite frankly his continual selection may be damaging to his health.
It's tough, torn vaginas are very unpredictable to recover from
Tak
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks EOYT:
@frugby said in All Blacks EOYT:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks EOYT:
@frugby so if we put aside the two players that are obviously better than Blackadder, there hasn't been any players obviously better? That's not the strongest argument I've ever heard..
You can argue the merits of Sotutu (I won't, I'm bored of it), but Ioane just isn't obviously better. I'm not saying he isn't better, but you're missing the point of what I am getting at.
Well I will grant you Blackadder is obviously better at getting injured far more often and playing far less often.
Quite frankly his continual selection may be damaging to his health.
It's tough, torn vaginas are very unpredictable to recover from
@canefan said in All Blacks EOYT:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks EOYT:
@frugby said in All Blacks EOYT:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks EOYT:
@frugby so if we put aside the two players that are obviously better than Blackadder, there hasn't been any players obviously better? That's not the strongest argument I've ever heard..
You can argue the merits of Sotutu (I won't, I'm bored of it), but Ioane just isn't obviously better. I'm not saying he isn't better, but you're missing the point of what I am getting at.
Well I will grant you Blackadder is obviously better at getting injured far more often and playing far less often.
Quite frankly his continual selection may be damaging to his health.
It's tough, torn vaginas are very unpredictable to recover from
Are you talking from experience ?
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks EOYT:
FFS Lio - Willie over Sotutu. Probably not too surprising because Lio - Willie is closer to the hybrid loosie they seem to prefer. It's getting like the Black Caps and their pop gun 'all rounders'.
Clearly Razor doesn't subscribe to the win the collision up front idea. I seem to recall Wayne Smith's AB teams as being similar, very good ball playing, but lacking the physicality to go down the middle (I could be wrong)
@canefan said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks EOYT:
FFS Lio - Willie over Sotutu. Probably not too surprising because Lio - Willie is closer to the hybrid loosie they seem to prefer. It's getting like the Black Caps and their pop gun 'all rounders'.
Clearly Razor doesn't subscribe to the win the collision up front idea. I seem to recall Wayne Smith's AB teams as being similar, very good ball playing, but lacking the physicality to go down the middle (I could be wrong)
Depends is you subscribe to the loopy theory that he was the actual coach of the Chiefs winning teams, those teams were all about physicality.
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Oh look....
FFS
Hoskins Sotutu is on the radar of Gallagher Premiership giants Saracens and Leicester Tigers after speaking to England coach Steve Borthwick about switching his international allegiance from the All Blacks. The 2024 Super Rugby Pacific player of the year, who won the last of his 14 Test caps against England at Twickenham in November 2022, recently turned down the chance of an All Blacks recall for their autumn tour of Europe. All Blacks coach Scott Robertson is maintaining the party line that Sotutu, who also qualifies for Fiji, has a knee injury. However, it is an open secret that he has had talks with England boss Borthwick about playing for the Red Rose. -
Oh look....
FFS
Hoskins Sotutu is on the radar of Gallagher Premiership giants Saracens and Leicester Tigers after speaking to England coach Steve Borthwick about switching his international allegiance from the All Blacks. The 2024 Super Rugby Pacific player of the year, who won the last of his 14 Test caps against England at Twickenham in November 2022, recently turned down the chance of an All Blacks recall for their autumn tour of Europe. All Blacks coach Scott Robertson is maintaining the party line that Sotutu, who also qualifies for Fiji, has a knee injury. However, it is an open secret that he has had talks with England boss Borthwick about playing for the Red Rose. -
Oh look....
FFS
Hoskins Sotutu is on the radar of Gallagher Premiership giants Saracens and Leicester Tigers after speaking to England coach Steve Borthwick about switching his international allegiance from the All Blacks. The 2024 Super Rugby Pacific player of the year, who won the last of his 14 Test caps against England at Twickenham in November 2022, recently turned down the chance of an All Blacks recall for their autumn tour of Europe. All Blacks coach Scott Robertson is maintaining the party line that Sotutu, who also qualifies for Fiji, has a knee injury. However, it is an open secret that he has had talks with England boss Borthwick about playing for the Red Rose.@KiwiMurph Yeah, Saracens are going for him in a big way apparently.
After being so publicly spurned by Robinson, who can blame him for choosing a bucket load of cash and the opportunity play Test Rugby, rather than grinding it out as an All Blacks XV replacement.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks EOYT:
@frugby so if we put aside the two players that are obviously better than Blackadder, there hasn't been any players obviously better? That's not the strongest argument I've ever heard..
You can argue the merits of Sotutu (I won't, I'm bored of it), but Ioane just isn't obviously better. I'm not saying he isn't better, but you're missing the point of what I am getting at.
I think Sititi, Lakai and Haig could be a generational loose forward trio, who simply blow the others out the water and become undeniable. Sititi has already done this I think (at least for now) and I expect that if Lakai gets the chance on the EOYT he'll do the same.
When I argue about the ABs not having the cattle, I refer to the fact that we might be 2nd or 3rd best in the world... but what we have coming through (particularly in the forwards) is generational. The three above + Holland and Bell all started in the same U20 team, and I wouldn't bet against them all starting a test together in the next four years.
Sititi is an exciting talent but let's not forget that he struggled in the collisions against SA like he did in the Super Rugby final and in all those instances he was part of a losing team.
He's stood out against Australia, done OK against SA as the game developed, and failed big time against Argentina. He was a big part of that Argentina loss giving away 3 penalties in 20 minutes.
Sotutu is also a generational talent - arguably the most talented loose forward for creating tries in the last 10 years. Ultimately rugby is about scoring more tries.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks EOYT:
@frugby so if we put aside the two players that are obviously better than Blackadder, there hasn't been any players obviously better? That's not the strongest argument I've ever heard..
Christ, this again.
Akira is gone. You are pretty bloody unlikely to get selected if you're leaving unless you've been a fixture in the ABs.
Sotutu was the best player in Super rugby. Better than Jacobson and Dalton and Finau too. If Cane and Savea had been playing, he would have been better than them too - shoulda been selected, no argument there. But I don't think it's a stretch to say Blackadder has outperformed Jacobson, Dalton, Finau and Cane in the ABs since being selected.Blackadder actually (finally) played a game against the Blues this super season, with Sotutu and Ioane both playing. The pretty woeful Crusaders won against the champion Blues and Blackadder scored a try and made 27/27 tackles.
As for selection leeway, the ABs have had a 'don't lose your spot from injury' policy for ages - and Blackadder might be there forever based on his injury rate, so you may as well get used to it.
Without Papali'i, Sotutu wouldn't have had the season he did. The foundation of the Blues carry game close in and winning collisions, winning the breakdown, and the best defense, was built on Papali'i.
He hit the most rucks and made the most tackles of any NZ player in Super Rugby.
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Isn't it more about being the next option behind Ardie at 8, and knowing Cane was going at end of this year might mean Ardie going to 7? I don't see the victim thing so much at all.
The planet rugby beat up articles suggest that the English aspirations have indeed been real for some time. Razor has been open all along that Hoskins has been very close to selection. But has he shown the commitment to being an AB that Razor was looking for? And would he have been happy out of the 23 while world player of the year Ardie stayed at 8.
I see every motivation for him to be an AB moving forward with Ardie a 7 contender again. -
Without Papali'i, Sotutu wouldn't have had the season he did. The foundation of the Blues carry game close in and winning collisions, winning the breakdown, and the best defense, was built on Papali'i.
He hit the most rucks and made the most tackles of any NZ player in Super Rugby.
@brodean said in All Blacks EOYT:
Without Papali'i, Sotutu wouldn't have had the season he did. The foundation of the Blues carry game close in and winning collisions, winning the breakdown, and the best defense, was built on Papali'i.
He hit the most rucks and made the most tackles of any NZ player in Super Rugby.
Well fuck it. Lets go Ioane, Papalii and Sotutu then.
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Sititi is an exciting talent but let's not forget that he struggled in the collisions against SA like he did in the Super Rugby final and in all those instances he was part of a losing team.
He's stood out against Australia, done OK against SA as the game developed, and failed big time against Argentina. He was a big part of that Argentina loss giving away 3 penalties in 20 minutes.
Sotutu is also a generational talent - arguably the most talented loose forward for creating tries in the last 10 years. Ultimately rugby is about scoring more tries.
@brodean said in All Blacks EOYT:
Sititi is an exciting talent but let's not forget that he struggled in the collisions against SA like he did in the Super Rugby final and in all those instances he was part of a losing team.
He's stood out against Australia, done OK against SA as the game developed, and failed big time against Argentina. He was a big part of that Argentina loss giving away 3 penalties in 20 minutes.
Sotutu is also a generational talent - arguably the most talented loose forward for creating tries in the last 10 years. Ultimately rugby is about scoring more tries.
I think you're misremembering the SA game. Sititi missed a few tackles, which was poor, but he definitely didn't struggle with the collisions.
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Isn't it more about being the next option behind Ardie at 8, and knowing Cane was going at end of this year might mean Ardie going to 7? I don't see the victim thing so much at all.
The planet rugby beat up articles suggest that the English aspirations have indeed been real for some time. Razor has been open all along that Hoskins has been very close to selection. But has he shown the commitment to being an AB that Razor was looking for? And would he have been happy out of the 23 while world player of the year Ardie stayed at 8.
I see every motivation for him to be an AB moving forward with Ardie a 7 contender again.@ARHS said in All Blacks EOYT:
But has he shown the commitment to being an AB that Razor was looking for?
You're absolutely right. This is all on Sotutu.
Luckily he can take his lazy, shitty, one side of the ball attitude up to the NH and fail on their payroll, not ours. Really no great loss. We are awash with ball carriers in our loose forwards.
/sarc
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Isn't it more about being the next option behind Ardie at 8, and knowing Cane was going at end of this year might mean Ardie going to 7? I don't see the victim thing so much at all.
The planet rugby beat up articles suggest that the English aspirations have indeed been real for some time. Razor has been open all along that Hoskins has been very close to selection. But has he shown the commitment to being an AB that Razor was looking for? And would he have been happy out of the 23 while world player of the year Ardie stayed at 8.
I see every motivation for him to be an AB moving forward with Ardie a 7 contender again.@ARHS said in All Blacks EOYT:
And would he have been happy out of the 23 while world player of the year Ardie stayed at 8.
Here's a novel concept. Utilise the Super Rugby Player of the Year in the form of his life on our bench which has sucked for most of the season......
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Sititi is an exciting talent but let's not forget that he struggled in the collisions against SA like he did in the Super Rugby final and in all those instances he was part of a losing team.
He's stood out against Australia, done OK against SA as the game developed, and failed big time against Argentina. He was a big part of that Argentina loss giving away 3 penalties in 20 minutes.
Sotutu is also a generational talent - arguably the most talented loose forward for creating tries in the last 10 years. Ultimately rugby is about scoring more tries.
@brodean said in All Blacks EOYT:
Sititi is an exciting talent but let's not forget that he struggled in the collisions against SA like he did in the Super Rugby final and in all those instances he was part of a losing team.
If being in a winning team is so important then: Caleb Ralph over Jonah Lomu, Adrian Cashmore over Cullen, Reuben Thorne over Jerry Collins, any number of dogshit halfbacks over Aaron Smith etc etc.
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@brodean said in All Blacks EOYT:
Sititi is an exciting talent but let's not forget that he struggled in the collisions against SA like he did in the Super Rugby final and in all those instances he was part of a losing team.
If being in a winning team is so important then: Caleb Ralph over Jonah Lomu, Adrian Cashmore over Cullen, Reuben Thorne over Jerry Collins, any number of dogshit halfbacks over Aaron Smith etc etc.
I think Sititi should be in the team but I think his appraisal should be more measured at this stage
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@brodean said in All Blacks EOYT:
Sititi is an exciting talent but let's not forget that he struggled in the collisions against SA like he did in the Super Rugby final and in all those instances he was part of a losing team.
He's stood out against Australia, done OK against SA as the game developed, and failed big time against Argentina. He was a big part of that Argentina loss giving away 3 penalties in 20 minutes.
Sotutu is also a generational talent - arguably the most talented loose forward for creating tries in the last 10 years. Ultimately rugby is about scoring more tries.
I think you're misremembering the SA game. Sititi missed a few tackles, which was poor, but he definitely didn't struggle with the collisions.
I remember Sititi and our other loosies getting smashed in the collisions especially for the first quarter.
Sititi is a guy with fancy footwork who is quick off the mark, good ball skills, high involvement. He doesn't really smash people.
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Without Papali'i, Sotutu wouldn't have had the season he did. The foundation of the Blues carry game close in and winning collisions, winning the breakdown, and the best defense, was built on Papali'i.
He hit the most rucks and made the most tackles of any NZ player in Super Rugby.
@brodean said in All Blacks EOYT:
Without Papali'i, Sotutu wouldn't have had the season he did. The foundation of the Blues carry game close in and winning collisions, winning the breakdown, and the best defense, was built on Papali'i.
He hit the most rucks and made the most tackles of any NZ player in Super Rugby.
Those stats might be true, but they're not entirely accurate.
At the end of the regular season, Dalton wasn't in the (whole Super comp) top 10 for tackles made - he (and LJ etc) played finals so moved up the list. He isn't in the top 10 for tackles / 80 min, though that list is dominated by guys who played a lot fewer minutes - with the notable exception of the clear #1 tackler, Tizzano.
Don't get me wrong, he is a tackling machine and a big part of the Blues success, but you are over-egging it a little. Hell poor old RR was a big part of the Blues success and can't even make the AB XV.
