All Blacks EOYT
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks EOYT:
It's a gamble either way. Does he get capped by the ABs where he may not end up being part of their plans going forward, or does he chuck his eggs into the England basket, where he's basically starting from scratch in a whole new environment
Context: in NZ outside of ABs he'll be on what - $200k for Super? Mabye $300k all in?
In UK he'd be on presumably double that comfortably - with the opportunity for $$$ if he makes the English squad. Financially it's a no brainer.
@nzzp said in All Blacks EOYT:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks EOYT:
It's a gamble either way. Does he get capped by the ABs where he may not end up being part of their plans going forward, or does he chuck his eggs into the England basket, where he's basically starting from scratch in a whole new environment
Context: in NZ outside of ABs he'll be on what - $200k for Super? Mabye $300k all in?
In UK he'd be on presumably double that comfortably - with the opportunity for $$$ if he makes the English squad. Financially it's a no brainer.
But I think he would have stayed if he'd been given a fair shake
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Given the potential shortness of careers, I know what I'd tell him if he were my son. And I fucking hate England.
Given the rumors floating around about him too - that he is a log - which have been referenced (introduced) on this forum by posters with very strong sauce connections to the AB panel, it is likely very disheartening and this isn't a big community. I can also understand why a player might decide to double (or more) their income in a context where their potential upside gets a bit more recognition.
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks EOYT:
It's a gamble either way. Does he get capped by the ABs where he may not end up being part of their plans going forward, or does he chuck his eggs into the England basket, where he's basically starting from scratch in a whole new environment
Context: in NZ outside of ABs he'll be on what - $200k for Super? Mabye $300k all in?
In UK he'd be on presumably double that comfortably - with the opportunity for $$$ if he makes the English squad. Financially it's a no brainer.
@nzzp said in All Blacks EOYT:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks EOYT:
It's a gamble either way. Does he get capped by the ABs where he may not end up being part of their plans going forward, or does he chuck his eggs into the England basket, where he's basically starting from scratch in a whole new environment
Context: in NZ outside of ABs he'll be on what - $200k for Super? Mabye $300k all in?
In UK he'd be on presumably double that comfortably - with the opportunity for $$$ if he makes the English squad. Financially it's a no brainer.
Is this actually still the case? English clubs bleeding money (I mean I have no doubt Sotutu only goes over there if offered a wedge and some guarantees by the RFU - which would happen) and Super Rugby salaries were increasing with the Silverlake deal.
Only a guess, but I reckon Sotutu could well be on $400k+?
All of the top ABs are on at least $700k, so I would imagine a fringe guy like Sotutu would have agreed a healthy contract when signing earlier this year.
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Based on the last numbers I have seen the top tier of SR + PU contracts would give you $250K ($195K + $55K). Two veteran PU players can earn a bit more for their PU contract ($85K) but they might not be SR players. There are incentives built into the contracts so the potential to earn more. For the top ABs to earn closer to $1M the majority of their income has to be from a NZR "AB contract". As I've said numerous times, while the NZR centralised contract system has advantages, the payment structure is upside down. When you add in assembly fees for the ABs it is a nice earner.
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I wouldn't hold it against Sototu if he did defect to the enemy, but it sits uneasy with me that a player can switch allegiances like that. I lnow it's the rules as they stand now, but I think an English parent is stretching things a bit given he has already played for NZ.
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Oh look....
FFS
Hoskins Sotutu is on the radar of Gallagher Premiership giants Saracens and Leicester Tigers after speaking to England coach Steve Borthwick about switching his international allegiance from the All Blacks. The 2024 Super Rugby Pacific player of the year, who won the last of his 14 Test caps against England at Twickenham in November 2022, recently turned down the chance of an All Blacks recall for their autumn tour of Europe. All Blacks coach Scott Robertson is maintaining the party line that Sotutu, who also qualifies for Fiji, has a knee injury. However, it is an open secret that he has had talks with England boss Borthwick about playing for the Red Rose.@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks EOYT:
Oh look....
FFS
Hoskins Sotutu is on the radar of Gallagher Premiership giants Saracens and Leicester Tigers after speaking to England coach Steve Borthwick about switching his international allegiance from the All Blacks. The 2024 Super Rugby Pacific player of the year, who won the last of his 14 Test caps against England at Twickenham in November 2022, recently turned down the chance of an All Blacks recall for their autumn tour of Europe. All Blacks coach Scott Robertson is maintaining the party line that Sotutu, who also qualifies for Fiji, has a knee injury. However, it is an open secret that he has had talks with England boss Borthwick about playing for the Red Rose.Any actual evidence for any of this?
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Sititi is an exciting talent but let's not forget that he struggled in the collisions against SA like he did in the Super Rugby final and in all those instances he was part of a losing team.
He's stood out against Australia, done OK against SA as the game developed, and failed big time against Argentina. He was a big part of that Argentina loss giving away 3 penalties in 20 minutes.
Sotutu is also a generational talent - arguably the most talented loose forward for creating tries in the last 10 years. Ultimately rugby is about scoring more tries.
@brodean said in All Blacks EOYT:
Sititi is an exciting talent but let's not forget that he struggled in the collisions against SA like he did in the Super Rugby final and in all those instances he was part of a losing team.
He's stood out against Australia, done OK against SA as the game developed, and failed big time against Argentina. He was a big part of that Argentina loss giving away 3 penalties in 20 minutes.
Sotutu is also a generational talent - arguably the most talented loose forward for creating tries in the last 10 years. Ultimately rugby is about scoring more tries.
Yip when I think of generational talents, the names McCaw Carter Lomu and Sotutu roll off the tongue.
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Personally as a Kiwi I could never envisage playing for England or Australia. Or any other country really.
@Billy-Tell neither, BUT, I've also not been in the position to have to actually make that decision if someone was waving a big old cheque in front of me to do so.
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@brodean said in All Blacks EOYT:
Sititi is an exciting talent but let's not forget that he struggled in the collisions against SA like he did in the Super Rugby final and in all those instances he was part of a losing team.
He's stood out against Australia, done OK against SA as the game developed, and failed big time against Argentina. He was a big part of that Argentina loss giving away 3 penalties in 20 minutes.
Sotutu is also a generational talent - arguably the most talented loose forward for creating tries in the last 10 years. Ultimately rugby is about scoring more tries.
Yip when I think of generational talents, the names McCaw Carter Lomu and Sotutu roll off the tongue.
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@booboo said in All Blacks EOYT:
If true fuck off then, sooner rather than later if you'retaking up space for a promising young loosie who could be playing NPC, and don't let the door hit you on the arse.
I mean I guess if that's how we want to treat our most talented players then sure, let's just repeatedly snub them from selection for even the wider squad despite being the stand out performers at Super, then when they have the human reaction of being disappointed and so look at all their options, just tell them to fuck off. Then at the same time a great idea would be to select other loosies that are not up to the job, get outplayed every single week by every other loose forward trio, and even select players that spend more time injured than playing. This really sounds like a recipe for success, especially down in NZ where financially we are struggling to keep all our talent at home. Fucking genius stuff, really is, won't hurt the ABs at all, we've just been on fire this season.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks EOYT:
@booboo said in All Blacks EOYT:
If true fuck off then, sooner rather than later if you'retaking up space for a promising young loosie who could be playing NPC, and don't let the door hit you on the arse.
I mean I guess if that's how we want to treat our most talented players then sure, let's just repeatedly snub them from selection for even the wider squad despite being the stand out performers at Super, then when they have the human reaction of being disappointed and so look at all their options, just tell them to fuck off. Then at the same time a great idea would be to select other loosies that are not up to the job, get outplayed every single week by every other loose forward trio, and even select players that spend more time injured than playing. This really sounds like a recipe for success, especially down in NZ where financially we are struggling to keep all our talent at home. Fucking genius stuff, really is, won't hurt the ABs at all, we've just been on fire this season.
Nah. Not convinced.
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@Billy-Tell was it you that didn't watch super rugby?
@reprobate said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Billy-Tell was it you that didn't watch super rugby?
As already said I did t watch much super this year. I’m not hiding the fact. The guy is not a « generational talent ». I’ve watched plenty of sotutu in previous years super and for the ABs. It’s getting utterly boring and tedious his fan club. He’s not a superstar in the making even if he was unlucky to miss out on the ABs.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Billy-Tell was it you that didn't watch super rugby?
As already said I did t watch much super this year. I’m not hiding the fact. The guy is not a « generational talent ». I’ve watched plenty of sotutu in previous years super and for the ABs. It’s getting utterly boring and tedious his fan club. He’s not a superstar in the making even if he was unlucky to miss out on the ABs.
@Billy-Tell I guess we should ditch Clarke too, he was pretty rubbish in previous years and this year's form clearly shouldn't count.
Jordan was basically invisible at fullback in previous years so he's out.
Beauden should be first five because he's world player of the year.
As for Ratima, why are we selecting a player who doesn't even exist?
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@Billy-Tell neither, BUT, I've also not been in the position to have to actually make that decision if someone was waving a big old cheque in front of me to do so.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Billy-Tell neither, BUT, I've also not been in the position to have to actually make that decision if someone was waving a big old cheque in front of me to do so.
Yeah haha it's a bit different when in that situation and the fact that he is English.
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I wouldn't hold it against Sototu if he did defect to the enemy, but it sits uneasy with me that a player can switch allegiances like that. I lnow it's the rules as they stand now, but I think an English parent is stretching things a bit given he has already played for NZ.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks EOYT:
an English parent is stretching things a bit given he has already played for NZ.
That seems pretty bizarre to me. What wouldn't be stretching it then? Some families have very strong ties to their ancestry that isn't even close to a one generation link.
Just ask my uncle Maxwell.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks EOYT:
an English parent is stretching things a bit given he has already played for NZ.
That seems pretty bizarre to me. What wouldn't be stretching it then? Some families have very strong ties to their ancestry that isn't even close to a one generation link.
Just ask my uncle Maxwell.
@Bones said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks EOYT:
an English parent is stretching things a bit given he has already played for NZ.
That seems pretty bizarre to me. What wouldn't be stretching it then? Some families have very strong ties to their ancestry that isn't even close to a one generation link.
Just ask my uncle Maxwell.
Born and raised in England perhaps? We are talking about a switch in allegiance here. If he had not already played for NZ then , yeah, go for it.
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@Bones said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks EOYT:
an English parent is stretching things a bit given he has already played for NZ.
That seems pretty bizarre to me. What wouldn't be stretching it then? Some families have very strong ties to their ancestry that isn't even close to a one generation link.
Just ask my uncle Maxwell.
Born and raised in England perhaps? We are talking about a switch in allegiance here. If he had not already played for NZ then , yeah, go for it.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Bones said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks EOYT:
an English parent is stretching things a bit given he has already played for NZ.
That seems pretty bizarre to me. What wouldn't be stretching it then? Some families have very strong ties to their ancestry that isn't even close to a one generation link.
Just ask my uncle Maxwell.
Born and raised in England perhaps? We are talking about a switch in allegiance here. If he had not already played for NZ then , yeah, go for it.
I dunno about you but I'm pretty close to my parents and would love to do something that might represent either one of them and make them proud. Fuck I would've even considered playing for Otago and moving to Tairei.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Bones said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks EOYT:
an English parent is stretching things a bit given he has already played for NZ.
That seems pretty bizarre to me. What wouldn't be stretching it then? Some families have very strong ties to their ancestry that isn't even close to a one generation link.
Just ask my uncle Maxwell.
Born and raised in England perhaps? We are talking about a switch in allegiance here. If he had not already played for NZ then , yeah, go for it.
I dunno about you but I'm pretty close to my parents and would love to do something that might represent either one of them and make them proud. Fuck I would've even considered playing for Otago and moving to Tairei.
@Bones said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Bones said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks EOYT:
an English parent is stretching things a bit given he has already played for NZ.
That seems pretty bizarre to me. What wouldn't be stretching it then? Some families have very strong ties to their ancestry that isn't even close to a one generation link.
Just ask my uncle Maxwell.
Born and raised in England perhaps? We are talking about a switch in allegiance here. If he had not already played for NZ then , yeah, go for it.
I dunno about you but I'm pretty close to my parents and would love to do something that might represent either one of them and make them proud. Fuck I would've even considered playing for Otago and moving to Tairei.
It's all hypothetical of course because it hasn't happened yet, but it's allowed so good on him. I just think a parent is a loose tie, given he has already represented the country of his birth and I am guessing he would have continued to do so if selected the past few years.
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@Bones said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Bones said in All Blacks EOYT:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks EOYT:
an English parent is stretching things a bit given he has already played for NZ.
That seems pretty bizarre to me. What wouldn't be stretching it then? Some families have very strong ties to their ancestry that isn't even close to a one generation link.
Just ask my uncle Maxwell.
Born and raised in England perhaps? We are talking about a switch in allegiance here. If he had not already played for NZ then , yeah, go for it.
I dunno about you but I'm pretty close to my parents and would love to do something that might represent either one of them and make them proud. Fuck I would've even considered playing for Otago and moving to Tairei.
It's all hypothetical of course because it hasn't happened yet, but it's allowed so good on him. I just think a parent is a loose tie, given he has already represented the country of his birth and I am guessing he would have continued to do so if selected the past few years.
@Crazy-Horse like I said, a parent wouldn't be a loose tie for me, I'm pretty sure millions of others would share that view.
Samoa, Tonga, etc would drop well down the rugby rankings if that wasn't the case too.
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@Crazy-Horse like I said, a parent wouldn't be a loose tie for me, I'm pretty sure millions of others would share that view.
Samoa, Tonga, etc would drop well down the rugby rankings if that wasn't the case too.
