All Blacks EOYT
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@Bones Let me see if I can find something to be disagree about with your post, Chris B.....
The thing about hookers is - we've had a very clear prototype since Fitzy. A big, mobile ballrunner. Advanced by Dane Coles and continued on by Taylor and Sami T.
Now, we could have picked the likes of Riccitelli or Eklund - but, frankly, they're too small to ever be effective against the best teams. Genetics are against them and that's a harsh fact of life for most of us when it comes to test rugby.
They would have got the shit beaten out of them this year by the bomb squad - and three years hence they'll still get the shit beaten out of them.
So instead, we've got four months of training into young Bell, who has the size to be useful in the future. We've lost no games because of that. And next year we should get Sami T back.
Looking like a great investment to me!
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@Chris-B pointing out they picked an average youngster when they were painted into a corner doesn't seem that great to me.
@Bones said in All Blacks v Japan:
@Chris-B pointing out they picked an average youngster when they were painted into a corner doesn't seem that great to me.
The original point I was making was - Razor wouldn't have been forgiven if we'd lost a game because of Bell.
Even though I've pointed out why there was some logic to that selection, which to labour the point with NZ A picks (or not):
Riccitelli - too small
Eklund - too small
Slater - injured
McAlister - another Crusader -
@Chris-B Fitzy was strong but he wasn't that big. And yes I have met him. And I don't think Coles was that big either? Compared to SA and England I don't think our regular hookers often looked that big?
@nostrildamus For his era, Fitzy was big - he wouldn't be now.
None are as big as e.g. Steve Thompson - maybe Sami T.
Coles wasn't huge but was exceptionally fast.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Japan:
Robertson had a choice of picking a team for the future and take a few losses as a learning experience or picking a team including experienced players at the end of their careers to improve his win ratio.
I hope we don't get the worst of both worlds.
To be honest, I don't believe the vast majority of NZ will forgive losses just because Razor's playing some young guys. Particularly if they're not "my" young guys. For example, George Bell.
I think you've got to judge them on their results and in almost every case - particularly when we're still more than three years out from the next World Cup - I'm not particularly concerned about squeezing 15 minutes off the bench into a promising rookie.
I'm concerned about winning.
I'm happy for them to squeeze the last drops out of Cane and Perenara and maybe Beaudy if that's what they think gives them the best chance of winning (and I somewhat agree that it does).
But, aside from that - we are playing the promising rookies.
Listed with caps
Tosi (3)
Darry (5)
Finau (4)
Sititi (5)
Roigard (5)
Proctor (1)
Perofeta (5)
Bell (1)
Lord (6)
Lakai (0)
Love (0)That's effectively half this week's team with less than 6 caps. And we've got a whole lot of guys off on the A tour who are going to play Georgia in an almost test.
@Chris-B
That's all true and it's fine if we are winning (and well) but we're really not.
At this stage in his coaching cycle, I'm not sure sticking with players at the very fag-end of their careers is the way to go - it just reduces the time he has to build the team he wants.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Japan:
@Chris-B pointing out they picked an average youngster when they were painted into a corner doesn't seem that great to me.
The original point I was making was - Razor wouldn't have been forgiven if we'd lost a game because of Bell.
Even though I've pointed out why there was some logic to that selection, which to labour the point with NZ A picks (or not):
Riccitelli - too small
Eklund - too small
Slater - injured
McAlister - another Crusader@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Japan:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Japan:
@Chris-B pointing out they picked an average youngster when they were painted into a corner doesn't seem that great to me.
The original point I was making was - Razor wouldn't have been forgiven if we'd lost a game because of Bell.
Even though I've pointed out why there was some logic to that selection, which to labour the point with NZ A picks (or not):
Riccitelli - too small
Eklund - too small
Slater - injured
McAlister - another CrusaderCorrect, because Bell is average and would have been a stupid selection. Why would you select a youngster off the back of an ordinary season, above 3 proven performers in good form?
You've chosen about the worst option to try and prove your point and it's bordering on bizarre... probably because it's a point you can't prove?
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Japan:
@Chris-B pointing out they picked an average youngster when they were painted into a corner doesn't seem that great to me.
The original point I was making was - Razor wouldn't have been forgiven if we'd lost a game because of Bell.
Even though I've pointed out why there was some logic to that selection, which to labour the point with NZ A picks (or not):
Riccitelli - too small
Eklund - too small
Slater - injured
McAlister - another Crusader -
@Jet said in All Blacks v Japan:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Japan:
The whole thing had an end of season Barbarians "let throw the ball around" feel to it.
Get ready for the intensity to be turned from 1 to 10 for the next three weeks.
The next 3 weeks will be a different sport.
Dublin on a Friday night, with a pissed up after work crowd, the RWC quarters, Ioane-gate fresh in the memory.
We are in for a hiding.
No we're not
What is with the doom and gloom.
Why are we hyping up these northern teams to this level?
We beat England 2-0 up front first 2 games with the new regime. We are much better than we were then.
The same England team that beat Ireland and were about to beat France but conceded a penalty in the 80th minute to lose.
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Japan:
We beat England 2-0 up front first 2 games with the new regime. We are much better than we were then.
England at Twickenham will be a tough ask. We were actually close to losing either of those games and they were at home.
And I'm not convinced we are better that we were then. Part of that is expected as game plans etc bed in, but the on-field management and ability to stay focussed when under pressure (particularly in the last quarter) has gone off a cliff.
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Exhibition game. You can argue whether playing it like that was a good idea or not, but that was very clearly the intention for the whole game - so criticising guys throwing it around and rash offloads etc is kinda missing the point.
Good things:
Aumua finally got a decent run, his early throwing yips improved, and he showed some of the offensive and defensive power that could see him become a real asset.
Some decent minutes into both the giant props.
Big Pat played pretty well.
Finau more minutes more confidence.
Sititi unsurprisingly at home at 8.
Roigard getting more minutes.
Bad things:
Roigard was pretty average really, apart from the try - and there's only so much credit you can give for that with Japan's tackling performance. Hopefully he still makes the England team.
Defensive alignment was really poor at times. Soft tries conceded, and a few glaring missed tackles.@reprobate said in All Blacks v Japan:
Roigard was pretty average really, apart from the try - and there's only so much credit you can give for that with Japan's tackling performance. Hopefully he still makes the England team.
Disappointed Robertson didn't leave him out longer. maybe had a minor niggle?
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@Chris-B
That's all true and it's fine if we are winning (and well) but we're really not.
At this stage in his coaching cycle, I'm not sure sticking with players at the very fag-end of their careers is the way to go - it just reduces the time he has to build the team he wants.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Japan:
@Chris-B
That's all true and it's fine if we are winning (and well) but we're really not.
At this stage in his coaching cycle, I'm not sure sticking with players at the very fag-end of their careers is the way to go - it just reduces the time he has to build the team he wants.
Yeah - but, there's only a handful.
Cane and Perenara have already announced that they're gone - and there's only a handful of others who are possibly too old to go to the next world cup. Taylor, Tuúngafasi, Tuipolotu, Beauden, Havili, Reece and Telea.
When you line them up against Mealamu, Woodcock, Thorn, DC, Nonu - it';s only the wings that almost certainly won't make it because it's rare they get to 30.
I guess my point is that we've got tons of time.
I don't want to lose matches to develop newbies this year.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Japan:
Roigard was pretty average really, apart from the try - and there's only so much credit you can give for that with Japan's tackling performance. Hopefully he still makes the England team.
Disappointed Robertson didn't leave him out longer. maybe had a minor niggle?
@Victor-Meldrew yeah I dont understand subbing him early. He certainly hasn't had too much rugby, he has had a couple of games to get some match fitness, and zero to gain by playing TJP. Maybe a niggle, or maybe it points to them already deciding they are starting him next week, because otherwise there seems no upside.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Japan:
@Chris-B
That's all true and it's fine if we are winning (and well) but we're really not.
At this stage in his coaching cycle, I'm not sure sticking with players at the very fag-end of their careers is the way to go - it just reduces the time he has to build the team he wants.
Yeah - but, there's only a handful.
Cane and Perenara have already announced that they're gone - and there's only a handful of others who are possibly too old to go to the next world cup. Taylor, Tuúngafasi, Tuipolotu, Beauden, Havili, Reece and Telea.
When you line them up against Mealamu, Woodcock, Thorn, DC, Nonu - it';s only the wings that almost certainly won't make it because it's rare they get to 30.
I guess my point is that we've got tons of time.
I don't want to lose matches to develop newbies this year.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Japan:
Yeah - but, there's only a handful.
Cane and Perenara have already announced that they're gone - and there's only a handful of others who are possibly too old to go to the next world cup. Taylor, Tuúngafasi, Tuipolotu, Beauden, Havili, Reece and Telea.
That's about 10 players though. And I'm not convinced Havili is the man for the future...
I don't want to lose matches to develop newbies this year.
At the moment we're losing matches and missing opportunities to develop newbies.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Japan:
Yeah - but, there's only a handful.
Cane and Perenara have already announced that they're gone - and there's only a handful of others who are possibly too old to go to the next world cup. Taylor, Tuúngafasi, Tuipolotu, Beauden, Havili, Reece and Telea.
That's about 10 players though. And I'm not convinced Havili is the man for the future...
I don't want to lose matches to develop newbies this year.
At the moment we're losing matches and missing opportunities to develop newbies.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Japan:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Japan:
Yeah - but, there's only a handful.
Cane and Perenara have already announced that they're gone - and there's only a handful of others who are possibly too old to go to the next world cup. Taylor, Tuúngafasi, Tuipolotu, Beauden, Havili, Reece and Telea.
That's about 10 players though. And I'm not convinced Havili is the man for the future...
I don't want to lose matches to develop newbies this year.
At the moment we're losing matches and missing opportunities to develop newbies.
Uhhhh....hello.....we've won 3 in a row.....
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Japan:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Japan:
Yeah - but, there's only a handful.
Cane and Perenara have already announced that they're gone - and there's only a handful of others who are possibly too old to go to the next world cup. Taylor, Tuúngafasi, Tuipolotu, Beauden, Havili, Reece and Telea.
That's about 10 players though. And I'm not convinced Havili is the man for the future...
I don't want to lose matches to develop newbies this year.
At the moment we're losing matches and missing opportunities to develop newbies.
Uhhhh....hello.....we've won 3 in a row.....
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks v Japan:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Japan:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Japan:
Yeah - but, there's only a handful.
Cane and Perenara have already announced that they're gone - and there's only a handful of others who are possibly too old to go to the next world cup. Taylor, Tuúngafasi, Tuipolotu, Beauden, Havili, Reece and Telea.
That's about 10 players though. And I'm not convinced Havili is the man for the future...
I don't want to lose matches to develop newbies this year.
At the moment we're losing matches and missing opportunities to develop newbies.
Uhhhh....hello.....we've won 3 in a row.....
Winning the easy ones. Flat track bullies.
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@brodean said in All Blacks v Japan:
@Chris-B
Riccitelli is the same weight as Taylor.
Yes.
Watch him get interviewed by Jeff Wilson and Google will tell you he's nearly as tall as Jeff.
@Chris-B Most of the NZ hookers aren't tall (< 1.83 m), and that includes those in the ABs. Some are obviously much bigger/heavier than others (ST). It's why Thompson could have been an interesting long-term option as he is a similar build to Marx. Slater is also on the taller side (1.86 m).
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Japan:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Japan:
Yeah - but, there's only a handful.
Cane and Perenara have already announced that they're gone - and there's only a handful of others who are possibly too old to go to the next world cup. Taylor, Tuúngafasi, Tuipolotu, Beauden, Havili, Reece and Telea.
That's about 10 players though. And I'm not convinced Havili is the man for the future...
I don't want to lose matches to develop newbies this year.
At the moment we're losing matches and missing opportunities to develop newbies.
Uhhhh....hello.....we've won 3 in a row.....
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks v Japan:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Japan:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Japan:
Yeah - but, there's only a handful.
Cane and Perenara have already announced that they're gone - and there's only a handful of others who are possibly too old to go to the next world cup. Taylor, Tuúngafasi, Tuipolotu, Beauden, Havili, Reece and Telea.
That's about 10 players though. And I'm not convinced Havili is the man for the future...
I don't want to lose matches to develop newbies this year.
At the moment we're losing matches and missing opportunities to develop newbies.
Uhhhh....hello.....we've won 3 in a row.....
Yep, we're really on a roll. Even put 20 points on the 10th placed Test team a few weeks back...
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My dear, In the midst of hate, I found there was, within me, an invincible love. In the midst of tears, I found there was, within me, an invincible smile. In the midst of chaos, I found there was, within me, an invincible calm. I realized, through it all, that… In the midst of winter, I found there was, within me, an invincible summer. And that makes me happy. For it says that no matter how hard the world pushes against me, within me, there’s something stronger – something better, pushing right back. Truly yours, Albert Camus
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks v Japan:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Japan:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Japan:
Yeah - but, there's only a handful.
Cane and Perenara have already announced that they're gone - and there's only a handful of others who are possibly too old to go to the next world cup. Taylor, Tuúngafasi, Tuipolotu, Beauden, Havili, Reece and Telea.
That's about 10 players though. And I'm not convinced Havili is the man for the future...
I don't want to lose matches to develop newbies this year.
At the moment we're losing matches and missing opportunities to develop newbies.
Uhhhh....hello.....we've won 3 in a row.....
Yep, we're really on a roll. Even put 20 points on the 10th placed Test team a few weeks back...
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Japan:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks v Japan:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Japan:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Japan:
Yeah - but, there's only a handful.
Cane and Perenara have already announced that they're gone - and there's only a handful of others who are possibly too old to go to the next world cup. Taylor, Tuúngafasi, Tuipolotu, Beauden, Havili, Reece and Telea.
That's about 10 players though. And I'm not convinced Havili is the man for the future...
I don't want to lose matches to develop newbies this year.
At the moment we're losing matches and missing opportunities to develop newbies.
Uhhhh....hello.....we've won 3 in a row.....
Yep, we're really on a roll. Even put 20 points on the 10th placed Test team a few weeks back...
Spain, Portugal, Romania and Wales will be breathing a sigh of relief that we won't get our hands on them!
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@Chris-B Most of the NZ hookers aren't tall (< 1.83 m), and that includes those in the ABs. Some are obviously much bigger/heavier than others (ST). It's why Thompson could have been an interesting long-term option as he is a similar build to Marx. Slater is also on the taller side (1.86 m).
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Japan:
@Chris-B Most of the NZ hookers aren't tall (< 1.83 m), and that includes those in the ABs. Some are obviously much bigger/heavier than others (ST). It's why Thompson could have been an interesting long-term option as he is a similar build to Marx. Slater is also on the taller side (1.86 m).
I'm all for it - taller and bigger hookers.
But the coaches have told us for years that they try to pack on as much as weight as possible - especially in the tight forwards - without compromising performance elsewhere.
The harsh reality is that you can't make short hookers much bigger. That's a huge problem for Ricky and Kurt - among others.
