The Silver Fern

@Catogrande said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

@Catogrande said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

Had it on good authority that some of the Home Nations would love for the Lions Tours to finish.

Minimal remuneration and loss of players to injury the primary reasons.

If we'd gone down 3-0 - which was on the cards prior to and during the tour - then it could have seen the end.

So thanks for playing ball NZ 🙂

It is certainly something that really irks me that the NH either decided (or allowed) the SoccerFootball construct of clubs to be the structure in Pro Rugby.
It can only lead to the game being money driven, to owners making decisions based on their club rather than country and to the international game being devalued.
When 'friendlies' become common the international game will die and the RWC will become everything. (I think there are some in higher powers that would actually welcome that scenario)

It's not really the NH as a whole, just England and France. Now I can't speak for France but the idea that The RFU would actually make a pro-active decision of any magnitude is laughable. In England professionalism was held back for a year to allow for a smoother, land transition. What a complete and utter joke. The RFU did SFA to manage the change and left this extra year as a vacuum for wealthy sugar daddies to finance the clubs and effectively own the player base. Fucked it up from the word go.

there are many aspects of the professional game in England that are laudable but the overall planning is not one of them. It is more a case of constantly putting out fires that we have started ourselves.

Wales has done an awesome job of fucking it up too

True but in a different way. The idea of the regions was IMO, the right way to go but it seems from the outside that it has been handled poorly. Quite how I don't know but money is obviously a problem

Regions would have been accepted from the outset if they had been administered and financed by the WRU a la NZ.

They weren't, and then it became tribal warfare.

On the SBW incident , havent watched the replay,

but i seem to recall the lions had the ball as a result of a nothing SBW grubber, I think his tackle was a couple of phases later,

im guessing his mindset at the time was one frustration at his ineffectual kick , and he was trying to make up for it with a display of dominance , and got it all wrong

@kiwiinmelb said in Score prediction ABs v Lions #1:

its interesting because the scores here are pretty close to what I was thinking ,

us by about 2 tries , close most of the game , we get away near the end

30 - 18

yes, yes, and yes

@KiwiMurph said in 15 links to NH Podcasts about Lions Tour:

@Nepia On a 6 week tour with players from 4 nations i'd think it would have a huge impact on team culture and team building.

I don't think that, if a team can't bond without players sharing a room then they've clearly got other issues.

Damn, thought we were above this sort of shit. Will have to put the high horse out in the garage for what's left of the tour.

@mariner4life said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:

Premeditated! They obviously planned that. Knew they had to get at Barrett and kill him. Fucking disgusting filthy thug shit, and obviously targeted.

Filth. Thug. Sickening.

Wrong Barret!

@Bovidae there was one that the Chiefs got pinged for the other night when the tackler clearly made every effort (with 2 guys on top of him) and did so much quicker than you see others get away with, one where you just shake your head and think WTF.

May has been shit house when he comes on for the Canes

@dogmeat
Little and Bunce were very close to Robertson and Osborne, but in my opinion were benefited by a much stronger ABs team

Not sure the video is still attached, but if so watch Lions scrum domination: https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/rugby/codie-taylor-all-blacks-have-smarter-against-colossal-lions-pack

Hell of a try. The SBW fella can be kinda useful when on the park.

@Megweya said in BIL Lions - Warburton: not the Test captain?:

Gatland hinted at this about 6-8 weeks ago, talking about a "tour captain".

In most recent tours the captain has been as a player unquestionably one of the first names on the teamsheet: Martin Johnson, BOD, Paul O'Connell.
On 2 tours the captaincy has changed due to injury (2005, 2013) so it is possible that the captain will have to change regardless of the elevated-focus on the role.

I think that Warburton is not one of 5 almost-guaranteed first-XV players (Furlong, Billy Vinipola, Murray, Sexton, Farrell).
Is he a much better captain than Rory Best or Alun-Wyn Jones? No.
Is he more of a game-changing player in the back-row than Sean O'Brien or CJ Stander? No.

I think the captain's role is one area that Gatland has (rightly) hedged his bets. Warburton was Lions captain in Australia in 2013, more than that he already has "series-winning Lions captain" on his CV.
So if SOB or CJ are blasting through their opponents ahead of the tests, I would not be surprised if Gatland and Howley tap Sam on the shoulder the week before the first Test and say "We'd like a quiet word ..." ©2013-SA-tour.
BOD on how he found out he was dropped in 2013
“I got the tap on the shoulder on Wednesday morning when I was at the coffee machine. Gats and Rob Howley wanted to have a quiet word.
I realised a 'quiet word' in the meeting room was not a good sign. They were not about to ask me to be captain. That would have been said to me there and then.”

It would go like this - Gatland/Howley: "Sam, it is a shame about your form (or that CJ/SOB on tour are streets ahead of you). We don't want to leave you out, but the other guys are better than you.
It is not as if you won't ever have been a Lions Test captain - you've literally got the series-winner captain t-shirt.
So be the nice guy that you are and for the team take it on your considerable chin that you will not be captain in the First Test."

And Sam will say "Oh, OK Warren, Rob. I accept that you know best. Will I be on the bench?"
"Yes, ... against the Chiefs, the Māoris and the Canes"

As an Irish fan, I can say that it would not be the most controversial Lions Test non-selection that Gatland has ever made.

The only difference to the 2013 line that they would have given to BOD is that this time they won't have to say "We can't pick you because we (Welsh coaches) think two Welsh players are better than you".

They might even have to say to Sam "We can't pick you because we think two Irish players are better than you". (Or 2 Welsh, or 2 English - but not the 1 Scot (=Hogg; Seymour born in USA), nor the 3 Kiwis).

If the tour-captain had been someone who had never played in a Lions test (Best, Hartley) or only ever had a Test as a replacement captain (Wyn-Jones), it might have been more destructive/disruptive to have not given that tour-captain the role of the test-captain.

No love for Scots legends Finlay Calder and Gav Hastings in your opening paragraph? This is a shamefully anti Scottish post.

@Billy-Tell said in NZ Provincial Barbarians v B&I Lions (Whangarei, 3 June 2017):

@taniwharugby said in NZ Provincial Barbarians v B&I Lions (Whangarei, 3 June 2017):

heard earlier that apparently this match/event was the biggest event in 6 years held in NZ where there hasn't been any evictions or arrests...read into that what you will.

Anyone who could be arrested was already in jail... 😛

Or busy trying to smash down shop windows.

Now watched the second half.

I don't buy the 'Maori strangled into submission' story. The fact is that the score went from 15-10 (and Maori declined gimme 3 just before halftime) to 29-10 on back of: Dmac kick off not 10, Lowe dropped ball on 22, Dmac suicide chip in own 22, Dmac miss on Te'o 10 out and DMac scragged standing 10 yards behind gain line from ruck. To their credit the Lions were ruthless when they got into the red zone. That said, better game management and they wouldn't have been there.

The time to take on the rush is not 15 yards behind the gain line in one's 22. That is when you kick the pill 50 metres downfield.

To paraphase Cypher: 'A little piece of advice. You see an agent, you do what we do. Run. You run your ass off.' Except kick!

In fact from 29-10 the Maori stemmed the tide very effectively.

An interesting long-read on the 2005 Lions tour based on interviews with several of the Lions players: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/jun/04/2005-lions-tour-hell-new-zealand-alastair-campbell-clive-woodward

@Bovidae said in 1993 Lions tour:

@dogmeat It certainly wasn't a great AB side during that series and Vodanovich has the worst winning % of any AB coach. Despite all that they still outscored the Lions 8 tries to 6 across the 4 tests. If only McCormick and Mains had kicked better.

With 5 in one test. So the Lions outscored NZ 4-3 across three tests. So in the winning of the series it is not quite so ludicrous to suggest that try scoring was an important factor. But I concede that goal kicking was the ultimate deciding factor - as it is in most close games/series.

We played Fiji on Friday 10 June 2005 prior to the Lions series starting on Saturday 25 June. I agree a decent game together beforehand for the ABs (not just a "game of three halves") is a must.

However, in 2005 the Lions played provincial sides plus the Maori. In 2017 they play mostly SR sides. The first test is June 24 and they play the Blues on Jun 7, Crusaders on Jun 10 and Highlanders on Jun 13. I think we were assured that ABs test players will play in their SR sides in the leadup to the first test (not sure if this means core ABs or just fringe ABs - and injury concerns will scupper these plans quick smart).

I'm pretty sure that means the Blues and Crusaders (at least) will have their ABs. This means that ABs preview game would have to be the week before the first test (while the Lions play the Maori).

@nzzp said in B&I Lions 2017:

@majorrage said in B&I Lions 2017:

SOB is having a pretty sharp dig at Gatland / Lions mgmt. Thats it nothing else.

Ryan Bailey  /  Sep 21, 2017 O'Brien: 'We should have beaten the All Blacks 3-0. The coaches have a lot to answer for' O'Brien: 'We should have beaten the All Blacks 3-0. The coaches have a lot to answer for'

In a typically honest and straight talking interview, Sean O’Brien has strongly criticised the methods of Warren Gatland and his coaches during the summer’s Lions tour.

A more extensive interview. His credibility takes a bit of a hit as he says the buildup to test 2 was perfect. A 3 point win over a 14 man side with a 'perfect buildup' doesn't suggest you'd sweep the series, but I'm just another arrogant kiwi fan (JAAKF)

Not necessarily though. You can have the perfect buildup and then the coach selects the wrong players to execute on the night....

@Crucial

This has occurred to me Crucial.

The story in the media is that he has some kind of side strain so is not goal kicking at the moment.

From his general play, tactical and line kicking it doesn't exactly look like he is carrying any niggles.

My tea leaves are telling me he's nailed his goal kicking gig 💯 and is now being kept in cotton wool until the Lions get here. 🙂