All Blacks v Ireland II
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Nah. I can understand Best coming out. With the uncertainty in last year about big screen replays and refs changing their mind as long as the conversion isn't taken yet.
It's a mess, but it's a mess of the officials own making and precedents. I guess Best has set a new precedent though.
Wound have been funny though if Peyper judged it an early charge .....
@Rapido said in Ireland II:
Nah. I can understand Best coming out. With the uncertainty in last year about big screen replays and refs changing their mind as long as the conversion isn't taken yet.
It's a mess, but it's a mess of the officials own making and precedents. I guess Best has set a new precedent though.
Wound have been funny though if Peyper judged it an early charge .....
In fairness, it wasn't "right as NZ were taking the conversion". Best had already started to walk out towards the ref as Barrett started to walk back up the pitch with the tee to set it down for where he wanted to take the kick. Best then stopped, the camera cuts away and then back to a wide shot and Best is being urged to ask the question by the team so he keeps going towards Pepyer albeit it appears reluctantly.
If there was a question about a forward pass, then I'd have done the same. Barrett was still settling the ball on the tee and I suspect knew what Best was going to ask. Barrett converted anyway so hey ho.
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I'll just put this bit in here for my Idol of the Week award.
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I'll just put this bit in here for my Idol of the Week award.
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@munstergreen I think Gerry Thornley at the Irish Times is usually pretty good in his analysis. Liam Toland is a cock and don't get me started on Gavin Cumiskey
@Kiwidom said in Ireland II:
@munstergreen I think Gerry Thornley at the Irish Times is usually pretty good in his analysis. Liam Toland is a cock and don't get me started on Gavin Cumiskey
I've always said that Cumiskey to getting a girl pregnant.
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Ok - I've watched the game twice now - without interruption.
All I've got to say is:
What the fuck was Henshaw playing at trying to hit Cane's shoulder/head with his head whilst pirouetting on the spot?
Can Zebo not run fast enough without being caught by some two-bit arm-swinging Kiwi winger?
Sexton's tackle is a penalty try all day, every day, and I'm glad there are some journalists in Ireland who actually agree with me
Tadgh Furlong. Tadgh fucking Furlong! Did you see him move and fend those three players in a row?
Paddy Jackson coming on the pitch is like being handed a Morris Minor in the middle of an F1 duel.
Beauden Barrett. Beauden fucking Barrett! If NZ had 14 other players like him, they'd be a pretty good team.
Why has Dane Coles turned into a hothead? And a snarly one at that?
van der Flier is The Business. Good luck Seanie.
How come NZ didn't play those two lock fellas in the Chicago game, yiz would have been much better?
How the holy, motherfucking fuck of a fuck did Ireland go from scoring 5 tries to 0 tries? To finish such a game with three fucking penalties, and turned down some kicks, is a shitballs return.
It may just be me, but I'm getting sick and tired of every player under the sun rushing in to obscure the view everytime there's an attempted maul over the line. You can't bloody see a thing. Either you're in the maul from the start, or else fuck off out of the way and stop trying to stick a hand into the mess afterwards whilst claiming that you stopped the ball single-handedly and making sure the camera can't see a damn thing.Tackles? What tackles?
I demand a third test. Cancel the Frogs immediately and get your asses back to Dublin - tell the Wallabies to wait till we've finished.
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I watched the game again last night, mostly without interruption, from the point of Barrett's try to the game clincher (from about 15 mins to 66 mins).
We got severely smacked in the possession stakes, especially early in the third quarter, thanks to some dumb exit plays and being panicky with the ball. I heard the comms say it was 88% possession to the irish in the first 10-12 mins of the 2nd half.
There was a definite sense in the third quarter that we were not contesting at ruck and maul time, to avoid sanction. I'm not sure what the penalty count was in that quarter but other than Fekitoa's idiocy (about 48 mins in) our discipline improved substantially from the second quarter.
When Jackson kicked a penalty to take it to 14-9 (about 58 mins or so), there was an avalanche of subs. Ireland replaced tight forwards and we brought on TJP and AC for AS and JS. AC straight away did his short kickoff which BBBR brilliantly retrieved by getting his feet over the Irish 10m line and reaching back for it. We actually played really well from here in the eight minutes or so leading up to the game clincher, with some improved passing interchanges and the Dagg to Cruden dropped pass opportunity being a sign that the Irish intensity had dropped.
In hindsight, we were in control of the final 22 mins of the match. It certainly petered out after Fekitoa's 2nd try.
The tactical change to sub the inside backs (though Barrett was outstanding at 10), plus the improvement in our discipline, plus the continued powerhouse defence, had a big bearing on the game.
It was an Irish comms feed through YouTube (very basic graphics). I thought the commentators (who didn't mention each other by name) were a little pro-Irish but were mostly talking up the intensity and speed of the game. I though the brutality of the tackling was very 6 Nations.
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Ah now there are more level headed reactions in fairness:
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-missed-chances-all-blacks-3092438-Nov2016/
http://www.the42.ie/ireland-all-blacks-aviva-match-report-2016-3090747-Nov2016/
I'd also point out that there cannot be any question that NZ have a discipline issue at the moment. 12-4 was the penalty count in Chicago. 14-4 in Dublin. 3 yellow cards across both Tests to 0. 2 citings to 0. And the citing commissioner apparently referred 12 incidents in the game on Saturday back to the teams. 11 of those to NZ. While I don't like the whinging and the moaning it's pretty clear there is a discipline issue there that can't be ignored.
@molloyjh said in Ireland II:
Ah now there are more level headed reactions in fairness:
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-missed-chances-all-blacks-3092438-Nov2016/
http://www.the42.ie/ireland-all-blacks-aviva-match-report-2016-3090747-Nov2016/
I'd also point out that there cannot be any question that NZ have a discipline issue at the moment. 12-4 was the penalty count in Chicago. 14-4 in Dublin. 3 yellow cards across both Tests to 0. 2 citings to 0. And the citing commissioner apparently referred 12 incidents in the game on Saturday back to the teams. 11 of those to NZ. While I don't like the whinging and the moaning it's pretty clear there is a discipline issue there that can't be ignored.
The Test on the weekend was a one-sided joke from the refereeing. There should have been at least one yellow card for Ireland and Aaron Smith should never have been penalised. Ireland had carte blanche at the ruck and how you get a scrum for being the last man in defence knocking a pass down is beyond baffling.
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@molloyjh said in Ireland II:
Ah now there are more level headed reactions in fairness:
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-missed-chances-all-blacks-3092438-Nov2016/
http://www.the42.ie/ireland-all-blacks-aviva-match-report-2016-3090747-Nov2016/
I'd also point out that there cannot be any question that NZ have a discipline issue at the moment. 12-4 was the penalty count in Chicago. 14-4 in Dublin. 3 yellow cards across both Tests to 0. 2 citings to 0. And the citing commissioner apparently referred 12 incidents in the game on Saturday back to the teams. 11 of those to NZ. While I don't like the whinging and the moaning it's pretty clear there is a discipline issue there that can't be ignored.
The Test on the weekend was a one-sided joke from the refereeing. There should have been at least one yellow card for Ireland and Aaron Smith should never have been penalised. Ireland had carte blanche at the ruck and how you get a scrum for being the last man in defence knocking a pass down is beyond baffling.
@antipodean
Fuck imagine if an All Black did that knockdown and only a scrum resulted...
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@Milk good from EOS, good analysis, rational thought. I'm giving the usually excellent journo the benefit of the doubt that he is only drawing discussion on the ref rantings that have been going on.
@mariner4life said in Ireland II:
@Milk good from EOS, good analysis, rational thought. I'm giving the usually excellent journo the benefit of the doubt that he is only drawing discussion on the ref rantings that have been going on.
Well, he's certainly trying his best. I think it slipped a bit when he used the number of citing submissions as evidence of our playing style. That said, perhaps I'm being blinkered in ignoring that as evidence.
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@booboo said in Ireland II:
@Billy-Tell said in Ireland II:
The good news is we have Wayne Barnes this week.
Oh good.
C'mon, you know you love his headmaster approach, mixed with a dose of conviviality ("well done Kieran, bien joué Pascal") spiced up with some schoolboy French "lâchez sept", a no interference approach to the breakdown, and his ability to find an arcane law written in small print from 1906 to pull out at a crucial moment.
@Billy-Tell said in Ireland II:
@booboo said in Ireland II:
@Billy-Tell said in Ireland II:
The good news is we have Wayne Barnes this week.
Oh good.
C'mon, you know you love his headmaster approach, mixed with a dose of conviviality ("well done Kieran, bien joué Pascal") spiced up with some schoolboy French "lâchez sept", a no interference approach to the breakdown, and his ability to find an arcane law written in small print from 1906 to pull out at a crucial moment.
I'd be happy if he learned what a forward pass was.
I'm still bemused by his call in Auckland this year. Insane.
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@molloyjh said in Ireland II:
Ah now there are more level headed reactions in fairness:
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-missed-chances-all-blacks-3092438-Nov2016/
http://www.the42.ie/ireland-all-blacks-aviva-match-report-2016-3090747-Nov2016/
I'd also point out that there cannot be any question that NZ have a discipline issue at the moment. 12-4 was the penalty count in Chicago. 14-4 in Dublin. 3 yellow cards across both Tests to 0. 2 citings to 0. And the citing commissioner apparently referred 12 incidents in the game on Saturday back to the teams. 11 of those to NZ. While I don't like the whinging and the moaning it's pretty clear there is a discipline issue there that can't be ignored.
The Test on the weekend was a one-sided joke from the refereeing. There should have been at least one yellow card for Ireland and Aaron Smith should never have been penalised. Ireland had carte blanche at the ruck and how you get a scrum for being the last man in defence knocking a pass down is beyond baffling.
@antipodean said in Ireland II:
@molloyjh said in Ireland II:
Ah now there are more level headed reactions in fairness:
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-missed-chances-all-blacks-3092438-Nov2016/
http://www.the42.ie/ireland-all-blacks-aviva-match-report-2016-3090747-Nov2016/
I'd also point out that there cannot be any question that NZ have a discipline issue at the moment. 12-4 was the penalty count in Chicago. 14-4 in Dublin. 3 yellow cards across both Tests to 0. 2 citings to 0. And the citing commissioner apparently referred 12 incidents in the game on Saturday back to the teams. 11 of those to NZ. While I don't like the whinging and the moaning it's pretty clear there is a discipline issue there that can't be ignored.
The Test on the weekend was a one-sided joke from the refereeing.
There should have been at least one yellow card for Ireland and Aaron Smith should never have been penalised. Ireland had carte blanche at the ruck and how you get a scrum for being the last man in defence knocking a pass down is beyond baffling.Agreed. How the fuck were Ireland not playing against 8 men for the rest of the match....?
It's beyond incomprehensible comprehension.
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@antipodean said in Ireland II:
@molloyjh said in Ireland II:
Ah now there are more level headed reactions in fairness:
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-missed-chances-all-blacks-3092438-Nov2016/
http://www.the42.ie/ireland-all-blacks-aviva-match-report-2016-3090747-Nov2016/
I'd also point out that there cannot be any question that NZ have a discipline issue at the moment. 12-4 was the penalty count in Chicago. 14-4 in Dublin. 3 yellow cards across both Tests to 0. 2 citings to 0. And the citing commissioner apparently referred 12 incidents in the game on Saturday back to the teams. 11 of those to NZ. While I don't like the whinging and the moaning it's pretty clear there is a discipline issue there that can't be ignored.
The Test on the weekend was a one-sided joke from the refereeing.
There should have been at least one yellow card for Ireland and Aaron Smith should never have been penalised. Ireland had carte blanche at the ruck and how you get a scrum for being the last man in defence knocking a pass down is beyond baffling.Agreed. How the fuck were Ireland not playing against 8 men for the rest of the match....?
It's beyond incomprehensible comprehension.
@Pot-Hale said in Ireland II:
@antipodean said in Ireland II:
@molloyjh said in Ireland II:
Ah now there are more level headed reactions in fairness:
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-missed-chances-all-blacks-3092438-Nov2016/
http://www.the42.ie/ireland-all-blacks-aviva-match-report-2016-3090747-Nov2016/
I'd also point out that there cannot be any question that NZ have a discipline issue at the moment. 12-4 was the penalty count in Chicago. 14-4 in Dublin. 3 yellow cards across both Tests to 0. 2 citings to 0. And the citing commissioner apparently referred 12 incidents in the game on Saturday back to the teams. 11 of those to NZ. While I don't like the whinging and the moaning it's pretty clear there is a discipline issue there that can't be ignored.
The Test on the weekend was a one-sided joke from the refereeing.
There should have been at least one yellow card for Ireland and Aaron Smith should never have been penalised. Ireland had carte blanche at the ruck and how you get a scrum for being the last man in defence knocking a pass down is beyond baffling.Agreed. How the fuck were Ireland not playing against 8 men for the rest of the match....?
It's beyond incomprehensible comprehension.
You were your attack was so narrow...
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Thanks for posting that, those 2 lads were very classy. EOS hit the nail on the head when he said watch everything with the other jersey on. It applies as much to us as the Irish I suppose, but what tends to get my goat about the Irish whinging is the large dose of hypocrisy that goes with it. We saw this with the Barrett try where the commentators did not even hint at a Sexton high tackle - if Barrett does that to Sexton as he's about to score... Now we have had a couple of very reasonable Irish posters on here recently, so I don't want to tar all and sundry with the same brush, and EOS was certainly very objective there.
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@Crucial I thought that was one of the worst lack of gamesmanship I have seen in a long time, right as we were taking the conversion. Who the fuck does Best think he is? It's not cricket with a referral system. It was piss poor and another reason why I,'ll be supporting the convicts this weekend (which pains me no end)
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While our discipline has been a major talking point , Someone else posted this on facebook , thought it was interesting , So i cut and paste it for here , Penalties and yellow cards
Wales in Auckland: NZ 8 - Wales 7
Wales in Wellington: NZ 10 – Wales 6
Wales in Dunedin: NZ 10 – Wales 6 (Sam Cane yellow card)
Australia in Sydney: NZ 9 – Aussie 8 (Kieran Read yellow card)
Australia in Wellington: Aussie 15 – NZ 12
Argentina in Hamilton: Pumas 14 – NZ 9
South Africa in Christchurch: NZ 10 – Boks 8
Argentina in Buenos Aires: NZ 12 – Pumas 5 (Joe Moody, Liam Squire yellow cards)
South Africa in Durban: Boks 10 – NZ 8 (Codie Taylor yellow card)
Australia in Auckland: NZ 11 – Aussie 10
Ireland in Chicago: NZ 12 – Ireland 4 (Joe Moody yellow card)
Italy in Rome: NZ 5 – Italy 4
Ireland in Dublin: NZ 14 – Ireland 4 (Aaron Smith, Malakai Fekitoa yellow cards)
Overall Penalty Count: NZ 130 – Opposition 101
Yellow Cards: NZ 8 – Opposition 2 -
Something which isn't being taken into account and I'd say would have a heavy bearing on slanted stats - NZ play out the advantage a lot. And I mean a lot. Be it a penalty advantage in our half that turns into a breakaway into the oppo half, or just a penalty 5 out that more often than not gets turned into a try.
If NZ give away a penalty advantage, the opposition more often than not gets shutdown, so the penalty is awarded.
Edit: Actually, it'd be interesting to see how many of our tries this year were scored under penalty advantage.
