Japan vs All Blacks
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I must be missing somethign, there is nothing about JB's game that makes me think he should be playing elsewhere, let alone 12.
12/13 are farking tough posiitions to play, both offensively and defensively, no way would I want JB there.
What chance does he have of getting time at 12 in the Hurricanes with Laumape there?
@taniwharugby said in Japan vs All Blacks:
I must be missing somethign, there is nothing about JB's game that makes me think he should be playing elsewhere, let alone 12.
12/13 are farking tough posiitions to play, both offensively and defensively, no way would I want JB there.
What chance does he have of getting time at 12 in the Hurricanes with Laumape there?
You're missing the fact that he played his age grade rugby at 12, and then his debut (breakout) season at 12 for Canterbury where he was one of their best players. That's where the "Jordie to 12" comes from - he's had great success there at a high level but has never been given the chance to develop at the top level.
Agree with Laumape his time may be limited. In hindsight he was probably better to play for the Crusaders and form a partnership with Goodhue while Crotty spends 90% of the season injured.
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@taniwharugby said in Japan vs All Blacks:
I must be missing somethign, there is nothing about JB's game that makes me think he should be playing elsewhere, let alone 12.
12/13 are farking tough posiitions to play, both offensively and defensively, no way would I want JB there.
What chance does he have of getting time at 12 in the Hurricanes with Laumape there?
You're missing the fact that he played his age grade rugby at 12, and then his debut (breakout) season at 12 for Canterbury where he was one of their best players. That's where the "Jordie to 12" comes from - he's had great success there at a high level but has never been given the chance to develop at the top level.
Agree with Laumape his time may be limited. In hindsight he was probably better to play for the Crusaders and form a partnership with Goodhue while Crotty spends 90% of the season injured.
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
You're missing the fact that he played his age grade rugby at 12, and then his debut (breakout) season at 12 for Canterbury where he was one of their best players.
Agree he looked good at 12 for Canterbury that year. He did move around a lot though - 12, 13 & 15. Probably the same amount of time in each position?
They rotated Rob Thompson, Goodhue and Barrett in the midfield
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@taniwharugby said in Japan vs All Blacks:
I must be missing somethign, there is nothing about JB's game that makes me think he should be playing elsewhere, let alone 12.
12/13 are farking tough posiitions to play, both offensively and defensively, no way would I want JB there.
What chance does he have of getting time at 12 in the Hurricanes with Laumape there?
You're missing the fact that he played his age grade rugby at 12, and then his debut (breakout) season at 12 for Canterbury where he was one of their best players. That's where the "Jordie to 12" comes from - he's had great success there at a high level but has never been given the chance to develop at the top level.
Agree with Laumape his time may be limited. In hindsight he was probably better to play for the Crusaders and form a partnership with Goodhue while Crotty spends 90% of the season injured.
@no-quarter I reckon they would have played him at fullback instead of Havili.
I'm in the other camp. I reckon his future is at fullback. He's still just 21.
Ben Smith didn't become a regular All Black until he was 26 and the regular AB fullback until he was about 28.
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@no-quarter I reckon they would have played him at fullback instead of Havili.
I'm in the other camp. I reckon his future is at fullback. He's still just 21.
Ben Smith didn't become a regular All Black until he was 26 and the regular AB fullback until he was about 28.
@chris-b said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter I reckon they would have played him at fullback instead of Havili.
I'm in the other camp. I reckon his future is at fullback. He's still just 21.
Ben Smith didn't become a regular All Black until he was 26 and the regular AB fullback until he was about 28.
Yeah, we've discussed this in the past. I think he could make a good go of 12 or 15, I'd personally like to see 12 as he has a lot of good attributes that suit the position. There's an awful lot of hate on this board for such a young and obviously talented prospect.
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It really depends on the tactical trends, and at the moment we seem to be just heading into a '2 playmakers' phase with the fullback coming into first receiver on the opposite side of the scrum/ruck/maul the the 10.
This trend absolutely suits the immediate future prosects of DMac and Jordie and moves away from B Smith (Who is good a second receiver playmaker) and away from Will Jordan.
On the flip side we are seeing less of second playmakers like Mauger/McAllister (or cough Orbyn Leger) etc at 12.
Jordie is only 21, he will probably see these tactical trends change another 2 times in his career.
From an NZ POV and a Jordie POV - There's no point asking Jordie to play 12 for the Canes etc if that is not the way the AB tactical plans are going.
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@chris-b said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter I reckon they would have played him at fullback instead of Havili.
I'm in the other camp. I reckon his future is at fullback. He's still just 21.
Ben Smith didn't become a regular All Black until he was 26 and the regular AB fullback until he was about 28.
Yeah, we've discussed this in the past. I think he could make a good go of 12 or 15, I'd personally like to see 12 as he has a lot of good attributes that suit the position. There's an awful lot of hate on this board for such a young and obviously talented prospect.
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
There's an awful lot of hate on this board for such a young and obviously talented prospect.
I don't think that is true in the slightest - he's just not in great form and getting called on it. The 'hate' directed at him has been no worse than that directed at DMac at various times.
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@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
There's an awful lot of hate on this board for such a young and obviously talented prospect.
I don't think that is true in the slightest - he's just not in great form and getting called on it. The 'hate' directed at him has been no worse than that directed at DMac at various times.
@nepia said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
There's an awful lot of hate on this board for such a young and obviously talented prospect.
I don't think that is true in the slightest - he's just not in great form and getting called on it. The 'hate' directed at him has been no worse than that directed at DMac at various times.
The hate directed at both players has been pretty irrational at times, it's not a competition. Certain posters do seem to take some pleasure in seeing Jordie struggle, with some in this thread even calling for an end to his AB career.
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@nepia said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
There's an awful lot of hate on this board for such a young and obviously talented prospect.
I don't think that is true in the slightest - he's just not in great form and getting called on it. The 'hate' directed at him has been no worse than that directed at DMac at various times.
The hate directed at both players has been pretty irrational at times, it's not a competition. Certain posters do seem to take some pleasure in seeing Jordie struggle, with some in this thread even calling for an end to his AB career.
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@nepia said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
There's an awful lot of hate on this board for such a young and obviously talented prospect.
I don't think that is true in the slightest - he's just not in great form and getting called on it. The 'hate' directed at him has been no worse than that directed at DMac at various times.
The hate directed at both players has been pretty irrational at times, it's not a competition. Certain posters do seem to take some pleasure in seeing Jordie struggle, with some in this thread even calling for an end to his AB career.
I'm not suggesting it's a competition, but I don't think Jordie is being singled out anymore than other players not in great form.
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@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@nepia said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
There's an awful lot of hate on this board for such a young and obviously talented prospect.
I don't think that is true in the slightest - he's just not in great form and getting called on it. The 'hate' directed at him has been no worse than that directed at DMac at various times.
The hate directed at both players has been pretty irrational at times, it's not a competition. Certain posters do seem to take some pleasure in seeing Jordie struggle, with some in this thread even calling for an end to his AB career.
I'm not suggesting it's a competition, but I don't think Jordie is being singled out anymore than other players not in great form.
@nepia said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@nepia said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
There's an awful lot of hate on this board for such a young and obviously talented prospect.
I don't think that is true in the slightest - he's just not in great form and getting called on it. The 'hate' directed at him has been no worse than that directed at DMac at various times.
The hate directed at both players has been pretty irrational at times, it's not a competition. Certain posters do seem to take some pleasure in seeing Jordie struggle, with some in this thread even calling for an end to his AB career.
I'm not suggesting it's a competition, but I don't think Jordie is being singled out anymore than other players not in great form.
Young player tailing off after a long season? Am I recalling correctly that he was in pretty stellar form for much of Super rugby - there were expectations that he was going to compel BFA to the wing.
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@nepia said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
There's an awful lot of hate on this board for such a young and obviously talented prospect.
I don't think that is true in the slightest - he's just not in great form and getting called on it. The 'hate' directed at him has been no worse than that directed at DMac at various times.
The hate directed at both players has been pretty irrational at times, it's not a competition. Certain posters do seem to take some pleasure in seeing Jordie struggle, with some in this thread even calling for an end to his AB career.
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@nepia said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
There's an awful lot of hate on this board for such a young and obviously talented prospect.
I don't think that is true in the slightest - he's just not in great form and getting called on it. The 'hate' directed at him has been no worse than that directed at DMac at various times.
The hate directed at both players has been pretty irrational at times, it's not a competition. Certain posters do seem to take some pleasure in seeing Jordie struggle, with some in this thread even calling for an end to his AB career.
ooh ooh that's me!!
Call it a direct response the ridiculous hype he got early where he wasn't that great, but was made out to be the great white hope.
And i did say "in the short term". Right now he doesn't deserve a test spot, based on his whole body of 2018 work at both levels. I don't think it's an outlandish thing to say. He only plays one position, and at the moment he looks 3rd in line for that spot.
But, as has been repeatedly said on this thread, he's just a baby, and has all the time in the world. He has pretty good instincts, but his skills and decision making need some polish. Plenty of time to work on that, providing he sticks around.
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@nepia said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@nepia said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
There's an awful lot of hate on this board for such a young and obviously talented prospect.
I don't think that is true in the slightest - he's just not in great form and getting called on it. The 'hate' directed at him has been no worse than that directed at DMac at various times.
The hate directed at both players has been pretty irrational at times, it's not a competition. Certain posters do seem to take some pleasure in seeing Jordie struggle, with some in this thread even calling for an end to his AB career.
I'm not suggesting it's a competition, but I don't think Jordie is being singled out anymore than other players not in great form.
Young player tailing off after a long season? Am I recalling correctly that he was in pretty stellar form for much of Super rugby - there were expectations that he was going to compel BFA to the wing.
@chris-b I think there’s something in that. He had an excellent super season. He combined very well with his brother in attack and really improved his defence.
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@chris-b I think there’s something in that. He had an excellent super season. He combined very well with his brother in attack and really improved his defence.
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@act-crusader One big takeaway from that test - seeing George Bridge come on and do what he did...
....how big of a loss was Johnny McNicholl?
@chris-b said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@act-crusader One big takeaway from that test - seeing George Bridge come on and do what he did...
....how big of a loss was Johnny McNicholl?
Not big, because Bridge is a lot better than McNicholl ever was ....
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I think one of the biggest concerns for Jordie ,
Right now , he is a fullback only ,
And for a player down the pecking order as he is atm , not in the top 23 , maybe that spot is better going to a utility
@kiwiinmelb said in Japan vs All Blacks:
I think one of the biggest concerns for Jordie ,
Right now , he is a fullback only ,
And for a player down the pecking order as he is atm , not in the top 23 , maybe that spot is better going to a utility
Yep. Totally agree. He clearly isn't a 13 and for whatever farking reason he's not been played in the position that won him Mitre10 Cup player of the year as a 19 year old.
I think his skills in the air make him a better test 15 than DMac, but DMac would have to be the better bench option.
Will be interesting to see how he's used next year. While I'm happy to have him at the Canes I think career wise he should have gone to the Saders. With Crotty broken every second game he'd have had a thousand chances at 12.
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@chris-b said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@act-crusader One big takeaway from that test - seeing George Bridge come on and do what he did...
....how big of a loss was Johnny McNicholl?
Not big, because Bridge is a lot better than McNicholl ever was ....
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@kiwiinmelb said in Japan vs All Blacks:
I think one of the biggest concerns for Jordie ,
Right now , he is a fullback only ,
And for a player down the pecking order as he is atm , not in the top 23 , maybe that spot is better going to a utility
Yep. Totally agree. He clearly isn't a 13 and for whatever farking reason he's not been played in the position that won him Mitre10 Cup player of the year as a 19 year old.
I think his skills in the air make him a better test 15 than DMac, but DMac would have to be the better bench option.
Will be interesting to see how he's used next year. While I'm happy to have him at the Canes I think career wise he should have gone to the Saders. With Crotty broken every second game he'd have had a thousand chances at 12.
@rancid-schnitzel said in Japan vs All Blacks:
He clearly isn't a 13 and for whatever farking reason he's not been played in the position that won him Mitre10 Cup player of the year as a 19 year old.
He had multiple starts at 12, 13 & 15 in the 2016 NPC
I think he has potential in the midfield but it's not like he was at 12 all of that season.. or even the majority of that season
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@chris-b said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@nepia FABJohnny just never got cut a break!
Because he didn't deserve one. Being a white guy from Christchurch doesn't guarantee an AB spot (despite some evidence to the contrary).
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@taniwharugby said in Japan vs All Blacks:
I must be missing somethign, there is nothing about JB's game that makes me think he should be playing elsewhere, let alone 12.
12/13 are farking tough posiitions to play, both offensively and defensively, no way would I want JB there.
What chance does he have of getting time at 12 in the Hurricanes with Laumape there?
You're missing the fact that he played his age grade rugby at 12, and then his debut (breakout) season at 12 for Canterbury where he was one of their best players. That's where the "Jordie to 12" comes from - he's had great success there at a high level but has never been given the chance to develop at the top level.
Agree with Laumape his time may be limited. In hindsight he was probably better to play for the Crusaders and form a partnership with Goodhue while Crotty spends 90% of the season injured.
@no-quarter I'm not missing that he played there at age group, I'm missing seeing naything in his game at present that leads me to believe he is capable of making the transition now.
With the mid-field options for the Hurricanes, I cant see him getting any more than 10 or so minutes here and there, so cant see him even being a realistic option there any time in the next few years.
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@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@nepia said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
There's an awful lot of hate on this board for such a young and obviously talented prospect.
I don't think that is true in the slightest - he's just not in great form and getting called on it. The 'hate' directed at him has been no worse than that directed at DMac at various times.
The hate directed at both players has been pretty irrational at times, it's not a competition. Certain posters do seem to take some pleasure in seeing Jordie struggle, with some in this thread even calling for an end to his AB career.
ooh ooh that's me!!
Call it a direct response the ridiculous hype he got early where he wasn't that great, but was made out to be the great white hope.
And i did say "in the short term". Right now he doesn't deserve a test spot, based on his whole body of 2018 work at both levels. I don't think it's an outlandish thing to say. He only plays one position, and at the moment he looks 3rd in line for that spot.
But, as has been repeatedly said on this thread, he's just a baby, and has all the time in the world. He has pretty good instincts, but his skills and decision making need some polish. Plenty of time to work on that, providing he sticks around.
@mariner4life said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@nepia said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
There's an awful lot of hate on this board for such a young and obviously talented prospect.
I don't think that is true in the slightest - he's just not in great form and getting called on it. The 'hate' directed at him has been no worse than that directed at DMac at various times.
The hate directed at both players has been pretty irrational at times, it's not a competition. Certain posters do seem to take some pleasure in seeing Jordie struggle, with some in this thread even calling for an end to his AB career.
ooh ooh that's me!!
Call it a direct response the ridiculous hype he got early where he wasn't that great, but was made out to be the great white hope.
And i did say "in the short term". Right now he doesn't deserve a test spot, based on his whole body of 2018 work at both levels. I don't think it's an outlandish thing to say. He only plays one position, and at the moment he looks 3rd in line for that spot.
But, as has been repeatedly said on this thread, he's just a baby, and has all the time in the world. He has pretty good instincts, but his skills and decision making need some polish. Plenty of time to work on that, providing he sticks around.
You damn right that was you, you fucking Canesaphobe.
I actually agree with most of that, though I think he was better in Super rugby than people give him credit for; he was a pretty key part of our success for much of the season. Think @Chris-B has it right, young bloke that's played a lot of minutes this year probably needs a bit of a break.
