Has Hansen gone stale?
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@rotated thats the key to any successful coach though isnt it - the people he has under/around him.
You could argue Hansen hasnt looked quite as good since having Foster & McLeod...but by the same token, as you say, Foster might be able to pull it off with that team you mention, even if he doesnt quite have it within the current team.
Only thing is, would Gats be able to take a step backwards to being an assistant?
@taniwharugby said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@rotated thats the key to any successful coach though isnt it - the people he has under/around him.
You could argue Hansen hasnt looked quite as good since having Foster & McLeod...but by the same token, as you say, Foster might be able to pull it off with that team you mention, even if he doesnt quite have it within the current team.
Only thing is, would Gats be able to take a step backwards to being an assistant?
I think he could if he thought it might be the only way to the top job eventually.
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If we had to know half the back room stuff before we could comment on coaches or players, we might as well shut down TSF now.
It’s hard to ever truely know, even when the books have come out later...I make some inferences on Foster based on how I remember his days as a head coach at the Chiefs, his comments as an assistant coach, and how the All Blacks have performed since Wayne Smith left.
Foster wouldn’t be a disaster as coach, but he’d be roughly third or fourth choice on my short list.
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A question for the 'anyone but Foster' brigade.
Do you know what input he currently has? Do you know how the players interact/respect him? How much development has he put in so far?
I don't know the answers to those questions but I would think that the NZRU do.
They would know far more through his performance reviews than they would about another guy. Same goes regarding Super coaches.
I agree with @rotated about a coach new to internationals being exposed but that is the reason for succession planning whether that is for head coach or a new head coach with some continuation from assistants. I would be very wary of a new broom approach when it isn't needed.
@crucial said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
A question for the 'anyone but Foster' brigade.
Do you know what input he currently has? Do you know how the players interact/respect him? How much development has he put in so far?
I don't know the answers to those questions but I would think that the NZRU do.
They would know far more through his performance reviews than they would about another guy. Same goes regarding Super coaches.
I agree with @rotated about a coach new to internationals being exposed but that is the reason for succession planning whether that is for head coach or a new head coach with some continuation from assistants. I would be very wary of a new broom approach when it isn't needed.
We know he had to be forced into selecting Reiko Ioane, and told Hanson it was "a fucking stupid idea" to play him on the left wing instead of Naholo. Speaks to his ability as a selector.
From the outside, he appears to be a very stubborn selector - even when things aren't working well. Better coaches seem able to change their mind on players, or try new things.
The talent in NZ lets us paper over these sorts of cracks.
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Lifelong Auckland supporter here says, I’d love to see Razor appointed head coach of the ABs.
(How many ex-ABs have graduated to coach the team? Needle, Lochore, Grizz, Laurie, Wayne S...who am I missing?) (I guess Mitch, too.)
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A question for the 'anyone but Foster' brigade.
Do you know what input he currently has? Do you know how the players interact/respect him? How much development has he put in so far?
I don't know the answers to those questions but I would think that the NZRU do.
They would know far more through his performance reviews than they would about another guy. Same goes regarding Super coaches.
I agree with @rotated about a coach new to internationals being exposed but that is the reason for succession planning whether that is for head coach or a new head coach with some continuation from assistants. I would be very wary of a new broom approach when it isn't needed.
@crucial said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
A question for the 'anyone but Foster' brigade.
Do you know what input he currently has? Do you know how the players interact/respect him? How much development has he put in so far?
Hansen has previously said that Foster has been in charge of the AB trainings for some time, including when Smith was still involved. This doesn't mean I'm advocating he be the next AB coach, just answering your question.
I am sure the NZR board would get feedback from the players, especially the leadership group, about the merits of any coach in the current setup when they make a decision.
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@crucial said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
A question for the 'anyone but Foster' brigade.
Do you know what input he currently has? Do you know how the players interact/respect him? How much development has he put in so far?
I don't know the answers to those questions but I would think that the NZRU do.
They would know far more through his performance reviews than they would about another guy. Same goes regarding Super coaches.
I agree with @rotated about a coach new to internationals being exposed but that is the reason for succession planning whether that is for head coach or a new head coach with some continuation from assistants. I would be very wary of a new broom approach when it isn't needed.
We know he had to be forced into selecting Reiko Ioane, and told Hanson it was "a fucking stupid idea" to play him on the left wing instead of Naholo. Speaks to his ability as a selector.
From the outside, he appears to be a very stubborn selector - even when things aren't working well. Better coaches seem able to change their mind on players, or try new things.
The talent in NZ lets us paper over these sorts of cracks.
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@frank TBF he aint gonna slate someone they have selected are they, of course if they have selected him, they are gonna talk him up, but notice they often only do this for underfire players: NMS, SBW....
I suspect this will be the last year NMS will play for the ABs.
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Foster would be a disaster, at least by AB standards.
He's a good technical coach, but we'd see the old Chiefs in black. They knew what they were meant to be doing, they just couldn't do it.
Poor, and stubbornly retained, selection decisions. Teams going into big games in the wrong head space. A lack of regard for getting the tight game and set phase 100% before worrying about fluffy stuff.
Count me in the anyone but Foster crew.
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Foster would be a disaster, at least by AB standards.
He's a good technical coach, but we'd see the old Chiefs in black. They knew what they were meant to be doing, they just couldn't do it.
Poor, and stubbornly retained, selection decisions. Teams going into big games in the wrong head space. A lack of regard for getting the tight game and set phase 100% before worrying about fluffy stuff.
Count me in the anyone but Foster crew.
@chester-draws you describing the Chiefs under Foster or the recent ABs?
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@chester-draws you describing the Chiefs under Foster or the recent ABs?
@crazy-horse This isn't poor selecting -- the Fern would agree with most of the current AB team.
Foster's Chiefs were a very different kettle of fish, with provincial bias for a start (something the recent ABs have largely avoided).
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@crazy-horse This isn't poor selecting -- the Fern would agree with most of the current AB team.
Foster's Chiefs were a very different kettle of fish, with provincial bias for a start (something the recent ABs have largely avoided).
@chester-draws stubborn selecting then? More than a few on here have questioned selections recently. Akira, SBW, NMS...
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Has there been any concrete interest in being the head coach from Foster? Or any mentions from Hansen or anyone at the NZRU?
@mofitzy_ said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
Has there been any concrete interest in being the head coach from Foster? Or any mentions from Hansen or anyone at the NZRU?
I don't think there has been. It would be interesting to go back to the statements made when Foster was added as I think there was recognition all around that his strengths were in planning assistance and working with players rather than head coach areas.
Anyway the NZRU have shown their hand by providing Tana a path to slide away from the Blues and take up an AB coaching position.
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@mofitzy_ said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
Has there been any concrete interest in being the head coach from Foster? Or any mentions from Hansen or anyone at the NZRU?
Yes, when Hansen resigned in 2016 he put his hand up and said that was his goal. He also said he had discussions with the NZRU around that time about whether he would need to go overseas in order to be a strong candidate.
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Ian Foster puts his hand up to replace Steve Hansen as All Blacks head coach
RugbySeptember 5, 2016 2:35am
Source: AAPALL Blacks assistant coach Ian Foster has put his hand up to succeed Steve Hansen as head coach of the world champions.
Hansen, who coached the All Blacks to a second successive World Cup win last year, signed a contract extension in August, which will have him in charge through to the 2019 tournament in Japan.
But former Waikato Chiefs stalwart Foster was open about his designs on the top job when it eventually becomes vacant.
Asked if he saw himself as an All Blacks head coach, Foster told Newstalk ZB: “I do from an ambition side, and I guess that’s part of the whole thought process for me.
“I love what I do, I love this group and it’s just a matter of thinking out, first and foremost, I want to do the best job I can with the role I’ve got right now, and secondly what do I need to do to make sure I can present myself and put my hand up and say I want to be a head coach for the All Blacks.“That’s part of the next conversation, really, to see what can I do in order do that.
“Do you need to go somewhere else to do that or can you do it by staying within? That’s all part of a conversation that’s a little bit ongoing at the moment.”Foster has precedent on his side, with Hansen stepping up to the head role after the 2011 World Cup after being an assistant coach to Graham Henry for seven years.
A formidable side under Henry, the All Blacks have only grown more dominant during Hansen’s tenure.
“There’s a strong logic to that (succession) and it’s one that’s worked well for the All Blacks,” said Foster, seen as one of New Zealand’s finest players to never earn an international cap.
“But to be the head coach of the All Blacks you’ve got to be the right person and the best person should get that job, whether it’s from inside or outside. I understand that.” -
@chester-draws stubborn selecting then? More than a few on here have questioned selections recently. Akira, SBW, NMS...
@crazy-horse said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@chester-draws stubborn selecting then? More than a few on here have questioned selections recently. Akira, SBW, NMS...
So what you're saying is that since Foster entered the set-up, selections have got worse?
NMS is odd, but at least there's no-one else really hammering down the door. The ABs have always been slow to drop, and it's better now than it used to be.
SBW is definitely one of the best 2nd-fives in the country. I'd pick him to start, if he was fully fit, because he's the right answer to rush defence.
Akira is the sort of weird selection Foster used to make. I'd love to know his part in it.
Are you young? Because current selection issues are nothing compared to the weirdness of the past. With Foster we can expect a return to fullback at centre, and then staying there long after it has been shown not to work.
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@crazy-horse said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@chester-draws stubborn selecting then? More than a few on here have questioned selections recently. Akira, SBW, NMS...
So what you're saying is that since Foster entered the set-up, selections have got worse?
NMS is odd, but at least there's no-one else really hammering down the door. The ABs have always been slow to drop, and it's better now than it used to be.
SBW is definitely one of the best 2nd-fives in the country. I'd pick him to start, if he was fully fit, because he's the right answer to rush defence.
Akira is the sort of weird selection Foster used to make. I'd love to know his part in it.
Are you young? Because current selection issues are nothing compared to the weirdness of the past. With Foster we can expect a return to fullback at centre, and then staying there long after it has been shown not to work.
@chester-draws Even if I don't agree with some selections there has been more consistency with Hansen, Foster and Fox as AB selectors than there was under Henry, Hansen and Smith. The latter group had a history of axing some players after a poor performance, but often lesser performing players were still retained. I'd put most of that on Henry based on the evidence across both tenures.
All coaches tend to show loyalty to their players and back themselves to get the best out of them if they aren't in the best form. In the current setup Hansen must have the final say on the forward selections with some input from Cron. I doubt Foster and Fox are the main reason behind the non-selection of Akira.
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@crazy-horse said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@chester-draws stubborn selecting then? More than a few on here have questioned selections recently. Akira, SBW, NMS...
So what you're saying is that since Foster entered the set-up, selections have got worse?
NMS is odd, but at least there's no-one else really hammering down the door. The ABs have always been slow to drop, and it's better now than it used to be.
SBW is definitely one of the best 2nd-fives in the country. I'd pick him to start, if he was fully fit, because he's the right answer to rush defence.
Akira is the sort of weird selection Foster used to make. I'd love to know his part in it.
Are you young? Because current selection issues are nothing compared to the weirdness of the past. With Foster we can expect a return to fullback at centre, and then staying there long after it has been shown not to work.
@chester-draws no I am not saying the selections have gotten worse. I am saying the way you described the Chiefs (I presume you were describing them) under Foster, is similar to the way people have described the recent ABs at various times.
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A two year extension for Hansen with the announcement with the guarantee of retirement at the conclusion is best outcome for all parties IMO.
That window gives overseas candidates an opportunity to get their affairs in order and to be available while giving promising domestic candidates a more experience.
If 2019 goes pear shaped they can (and should) make wholesale changes to the support staff. If NZ goes this route Australia would be well advised to synchronize their coaching appointment to the same cycle as NZ.
