Super Rugby 2022
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@tim said in Super Rugby 2022:
@hooroo If your team stays healthy, I think you can roll them this year. Even without DMac.
Just having a look through the squads and I think the Crusader's stocks are naturally being over-estimated on here again, for the past few seasons their squad hasn't looked amazing, but they've performed far greater than the sum of their parts under Scott Robertson's innovative coaching, and honestly, when you assess the positional strengths of each franchise the Crusaders depth/quality only really stands out at lock and back three.
The Chiefs and Blues have the greatest talent and depth from positions 1-3, Blues, Chiefs (and Highlanders to lesser extent) each have envious depth in talented loosies which Crusaders are lacking, Highlanders/Blues/Chiefs packs all comfortably match theirs, the Chiefs have 5 standout locking options in their current squad, Highlanders tall timber, loosies and front-row all vastly underrated.
Blues, Hurricanes, Chiefs, and Highlanders all have superior and more talented midfield options than Crusaders. Outside backs are perhaps the only department that could provide a genuine point of difference for Red & Blacks, but even then the back three is a great strength position across all the franchises right now, particularly amongst the Blues, Highlanders and Hurricanes. So nothing to scoff at either.
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@tim said in Super Rugby 2022:
@hooroo If your team stays healthy, I think you can roll them this year. Even without DMac.
Just having a look through the squads and I think the Crusader's stocks are naturally being over-estimated on here again, for the past few seasons their squad hasn't looked amazing, but they've performed far greater than the sum of their parts under Scott Robertson's innovative coaching, and honestly, when you assess the positional strengths of each franchise the Crusaders depth/quality only really stands out at lock and back three.
The Chiefs and Blues have the greatest talent and depth from positions 1-3, Blues, Chiefs (and Highlanders to lesser extent) each have envious depth in talented loosies which Crusaders are lacking, Highlanders/Blues/Chiefs packs all comfortably match theirs, the Chiefs have 5 standout locking options in their current squad, Highlanders tall timber, loosies and front-row all vastly underrated.
Blues, Hurricanes, Chiefs, and Highlanders all have superior and more talented midfield options than Crusaders. Outside backs are perhaps the only department that could provide a genuine point of difference for Red & Blacks, but even then the back three is a great strength position across all the franchises right now, particularly amongst the Blues, Highlanders and Hurricanes. So nothing to scoff at either.
Crusaders will still win cos they have a great coach. CF foster and bladder
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@tim said in Super Rugby 2022:
@hooroo If your team stays healthy, I think you can roll them this year. Even without DMac.
Just having a look through the squads and I think the Crusader's stocks are naturally being over-estimated on here again, for the past few seasons their squad hasn't looked amazing, but they've performed far greater than the sum of their parts under Scott Robertson's innovative coaching, and honestly, when you assess the positional strengths of each franchise the Crusaders depth/quality only really stands out at lock and back three.
The Chiefs and Blues have the greatest talent and depth from positions 1-3, Blues, Chiefs (and Highlanders to lesser extent) each have envious depth in talented loosies which Crusaders are lacking, Highlanders/Blues/Chiefs packs all comfortably match theirs, the Chiefs have 5 standout locking options in their current squad, Highlanders tall timber, loosies and front-row all vastly underrated.
Blues, Hurricanes, Chiefs, and Highlanders all have superior and more talented midfield options than Crusaders. Outside backs are perhaps the only department that could provide a genuine point of difference for Red & Blacks, but even then the back three is a great strength position across all the franchises right now, particularly amongst the Blues, Highlanders and Hurricanes. So nothing to scoff at either.
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@tim said in Super Rugby 2022:
@hooroo If your team stays healthy, I think you can roll them this year. Even without DMac.
Just having a look through the squads and I think the Crusader's stocks are naturally being over-estimated on here again, for the past few seasons their squad hasn't looked amazing, but they've performed far greater than the sum of their parts under Scott Robertson's innovative coaching, and honestly, when you assess the positional strengths of each franchise the Crusaders depth/quality only really stands out at lock and back three.
The Chiefs and Blues have the greatest talent and depth from positions 1-3, Blues, Chiefs (and Highlanders to lesser extent) each have envious depth in talented loosies which Crusaders are lacking, Highlanders/Blues/Chiefs packs all comfortably match theirs, the Chiefs have 5 standout locking options in their current squad, Highlanders tall timber, loosies and front-row all vastly underrated.
Blues, Hurricanes, Chiefs, and Highlanders all have superior and more talented midfield options than Crusaders. Outside backs are perhaps the only department that could provide a genuine point of difference for Red & Blacks, but even then the back three is a great strength position across all the franchises right now, particularly amongst the Blues, Highlanders and Hurricanes. So nothing to scoff at either.
I made an unsuccessful bid last super season for broken record. The NZ refs heavily favour the saders. Often it's just the little things, 50/50s going their way, "missed" calls, they get away with a lot more consecutive penalties minus a card it feels like as well. Be interested to see what side was most penalised.
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@tim said in Super Rugby 2022:
@hooroo If your team stays healthy, I think you can roll them this year. Even without DMac.
Just having a look through the squads and I think the Crusader's stocks are naturally being over-estimated on here again, for the past few seasons their squad hasn't looked amazing, but they've performed far greater than the sum of their parts under Scott Robertson's innovative coaching, and honestly, when you assess the positional strengths of each franchise the Crusaders depth/quality only really stands out at lock and back three.
The Chiefs and Blues have the greatest talent and depth from positions 1-3, Blues, Chiefs (and Highlanders to lesser extent) each have envious depth in talented loosies which Crusaders are lacking, Highlanders/Blues/Chiefs packs all comfortably match theirs, the Chiefs have 5 standout locking options in their current squad, Highlanders tall timber, loosies and front-row all vastly underrated.
Blues, Hurricanes, Chiefs, and Highlanders all have superior and more talented midfield options than Crusaders. Outside backs are perhaps the only department that could provide a genuine point of difference for Red & Blacks, but even then the back three is a great strength position across all the franchises right now, particularly amongst the Blues, Highlanders and Hurricanes. So nothing to scoff at either.
Crusaders will still win cos they have a great coach. CF foster and bladder
@machpants i think you're probably right, its also why its so grating when fozzie's "big idea" as AB coach is just to get as many of his best players on the field no matter the position, Razor shows the old adage about a Champion team beating a team of champions still holds up
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@tim said in Super Rugby 2022:
@hooroo If your team stays healthy, I think you can roll them this year. Even without DMac.
Just having a look through the squads and I think the Crusader's stocks are naturally being over-estimated on here again, for the past few seasons their squad hasn't looked amazing, but they've performed far greater than the sum of their parts under Scott Robertson's innovative coaching, and honestly, when you assess the positional strengths of each franchise the Crusaders depth/quality only really stands out at lock and back three.
The Chiefs and Blues have the greatest talent and depth from positions 1-3, Blues, Chiefs (and Highlanders to lesser extent) each have envious depth in talented loosies which Crusaders are lacking, Highlanders/Blues/Chiefs packs all comfortably match theirs, the Chiefs have 5 standout locking options in their current squad, Highlanders tall timber, loosies and front-row all vastly underrated.
Blues, Hurricanes, Chiefs, and Highlanders all have superior and more talented midfield options than Crusaders. Outside backs are perhaps the only department that could provide a genuine point of difference for Red & Blacks, but even then the back three is a great strength position across all the franchises right now, particularly amongst the Blues, Highlanders and Hurricanes. So nothing to scoff at either.
I made an unsuccessful bid last super season for broken record. The NZ refs heavily favour the saders. Often it's just the little things, 50/50s going their way, "missed" calls, they get away with a lot more consecutive penalties minus a card it feels like as well. Be interested to see what side was most penalised.
@bones said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@tim said in Super Rugby 2022:
@hooroo If your team stays healthy, I think you can roll them this year. Even without DMac.
Just having a look through the squads and I think the Crusader's stocks are naturally being over-estimated on here again, for the past few seasons their squad hasn't looked amazing, but they've performed far greater than the sum of their parts under Scott Robertson's innovative coaching, and honestly, when you assess the positional strengths of each franchise the Crusaders depth/quality only really stands out at lock and back three.
The Chiefs and Blues have the greatest talent and depth from positions 1-3, Blues, Chiefs (and Highlanders to lesser extent) each have envious depth in talented loosies which Crusaders are lacking, Highlanders/Blues/Chiefs packs all comfortably match theirs, the Chiefs have 5 standout locking options in their current squad, Highlanders tall timber, loosies and front-row all vastly underrated.
Blues, Hurricanes, Chiefs, and Highlanders all have superior and more talented midfield options than Crusaders. Outside backs are perhaps the only department that could provide a genuine point of difference for Red & Blacks, but even then the back three is a great strength position across all the franchises right now, particularly amongst the Blues, Highlanders and Hurricanes. So nothing to scoff at either.
I made an unsuccessful bid last super season for broken record. The NZ refs heavily favour the saders. Often it's just the little things, 50/50s going their way, "missed" calls, they get away with a lot more consecutive penalties minus a card it feels like as well. Be interested to see what side was most penalised.
Doesn't help when NZ referees make this type of appalling blunder.
I hope that pre-season for these clowns addresses this sort of incompetence.
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The Blues have Brendon Pickerill running with them. There is one catch - he won't referee any Blues games this year.
Around the rest of the country, Mike Fraser will be based with the Chiefs, Ben O'Keeffe with the Hurricanes, Paul Williams links up with the Crusaders and James Doleman will join the Highlanders. In every case, no referee will officiate their respective teams. -
yeah, dont mind that
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@bones said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
@tim said in Super Rugby 2022:
@hooroo If your team stays healthy, I think you can roll them this year. Even without DMac.
Just having a look through the squads and I think the Crusader's stocks are naturally being over-estimated on here again, for the past few seasons their squad hasn't looked amazing, but they've performed far greater than the sum of their parts under Scott Robertson's innovative coaching, and honestly, when you assess the positional strengths of each franchise the Crusaders depth/quality only really stands out at lock and back three.
The Chiefs and Blues have the greatest talent and depth from positions 1-3, Blues, Chiefs (and Highlanders to lesser extent) each have envious depth in talented loosies which Crusaders are lacking, Highlanders/Blues/Chiefs packs all comfortably match theirs, the Chiefs have 5 standout locking options in their current squad, Highlanders tall timber, loosies and front-row all vastly underrated.
Blues, Hurricanes, Chiefs, and Highlanders all have superior and more talented midfield options than Crusaders. Outside backs are perhaps the only department that could provide a genuine point of difference for Red & Blacks, but even then the back three is a great strength position across all the franchises right now, particularly amongst the Blues, Highlanders and Hurricanes. So nothing to scoff at either.
I made an unsuccessful bid last super season for broken record. The NZ refs heavily favour the saders. Often it's just the little things, 50/50s going their way, "missed" calls, they get away with a lot more consecutive penalties minus a card it feels like as well. Be interested to see what side was most penalised.
Doesn't help when NZ referees make this type of appalling blunder.
I hope that pre-season for these clowns addresses this sort of incompetence.
@antipodean Wait how the fuck was that a forward pass
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@tim said in Super Rugby 2022:
@hooroo If your team stays healthy, I think you can roll them this year. Even without DMac.
Just having a look through the squads and I think the Crusader's stocks are naturally being over-estimated on here again, for the past few seasons their squad hasn't looked amazing, but they've performed far greater than the sum of their parts under Scott Robertson's innovative coaching, and honestly, when you assess the positional strengths of each franchise the Crusaders depth/quality only really stands out at lock and back three.
The Chiefs and Blues have the greatest talent and depth from positions 1-3, Blues, Chiefs (and Highlanders to lesser extent) each have envious depth in talented loosies which Crusaders are lacking, Highlanders/Blues/Chiefs packs all comfortably match theirs, the Chiefs have 5 standout locking options in their current squad, Highlanders tall timber, loosies and front-row all vastly underrated.
Blues, Hurricanes, Chiefs, and Highlanders all have superior and more talented midfield options than Crusaders. Outside backs are perhaps the only department that could provide a genuine point of difference for Red & Blacks, but even then the back three is a great strength position across all the franchises right now, particularly amongst the Blues, Highlanders and Hurricanes. So nothing to scoff at either.
@kiwi_expat lol you have to be a troll account, surely.
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@tim said in Super Rugby 2022:
@hooroo If your team stays healthy, I think you can roll them this year. Even without DMac.
Just having a look through the squads and I think the Crusader's stocks are naturally being over-estimated on here again, for the past few seasons their squad hasn't looked amazing, but they've performed far greater than the sum of their parts under Scott Robertson's innovative coaching, and honestly, when you assess the positional strengths of each franchise the Crusaders depth/quality only really stands out at lock and back three.
The Chiefs and Blues have the greatest talent and depth from positions 1-3, Blues, Chiefs (and Highlanders to lesser extent) each have envious depth in talented loosies which Crusaders are lacking, Highlanders/Blues/Chiefs packs all comfortably match theirs, the Chiefs have 5 standout locking options in their current squad, Highlanders tall timber, loosies and front-row all vastly underrated.
Blues, Hurricanes, Chiefs, and Highlanders all have superior and more talented midfield options than Crusaders. Outside backs are perhaps the only department that could provide a genuine point of difference for Red & Blacks, but even then the back three is a great strength position across all the franchises right now, particularly amongst the Blues, Highlanders and Hurricanes. So nothing to scoff at either.
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
Blues, Hurricanes, Chiefs, and Highlanders all have superior and more talented midfield options than Crusaders.
:face_with_tears_of_joy:
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
Blues, Hurricanes, Chiefs, and Highlanders all have superior and more talented midfield options than Crusaders.
:face_with_tears_of_joy:
@bones said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
Blues, Hurricanes, Chiefs, and Highlanders all have superior and more talented midfield options than Crusaders.
:face_with_tears_of_joy:
it's one of the better wind-ups in Fern history.
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@bones said in Super Rugby 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2022:
Blues, Hurricanes, Chiefs, and Highlanders all have superior and more talented midfield options than Crusaders.
:face_with_tears_of_joy:
it's one of the better wind-ups in Fern history.
I'm not sure if you're being serious here? they fit into Razor's system well enough but Ennor, Havili, Goodhue, McCleod, Punivai are all quite limited players. They are either far too lightweight, too passive and slow, or defensively poor.
The other franchises have considerably more talented, dynamic, faster & larger midfield options.
Chiefs: Anton Lienert-Brown (102kg), Alex Nankivell (98kg), Quinn Tupaea (102kg), Gideon Wrampling (101kg), Rameka Poihipi (105kg - has been the standout midfielder for Canterbury, Punivai & McCleod have been woeful).
Highlanders: Thomas Umaga-Jenson (107kg), Ngatungane Punivai (102kg), Scott Gregory (100kg), Fetuli Paea (98kg), Raymond Nu'u (98kg), Patelesio Tomkinson (96kg), Josh Timu.
Hurricanes: Jordie Barrett (102kg), Peter Umaga-Jensen (103kg), Billy Proctor (97kg), Bailyn Sullivan (98kg), Teihorangi Walden (96kg).
Blues: Reiko Ioane (103kg), Tanielu Te'ela (107kg), Roger Tuivasa-Sheck (98kg), Bryce Heem (103kg), Tamati Tua (98kg), Corey Evans (96kg).
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I'm not sure if you're being serious here? they fit into Razor's system well enough but Ennor, Havili, Goodhue, McCleod, Punivai are all quite limited players. They are either far too lightweight, too passive and slow, or defensively poor.
The other franchises have considerably more talented, dynamic, faster & larger midfield options.
Chiefs: Anton Lienert-Brown (102kg), Alex Nankivell (98kg), Quinn Tupaea (102kg), Gideon Wrampling (101kg), Rameka Poihipi (105kg - has been the standout midfielder for Canterbury, Punivai & McCleod have been woeful).
Highlanders: Thomas Umaga-Jenson (107kg), Ngatungane Punivai (102kg), Scott Gregory (100kg), Fetuli Paea (98kg), Raymond Nu'u (98kg), Patelesio Tomkinson (96kg), Josh Timu.
Hurricanes: Jordie Barrett (102kg), Peter Umaga-Jensen (103kg), Billy Proctor (97kg), Bailyn Sullivan (98kg), Teihorangi Walden (96kg).
Blues: Reiko Ioane (103kg), Tanielu Te'ela (107kg), Roger Tuivasa-Sheck (98kg), Bryce Heem (103kg), Tamati Tua (98kg), Corey Evans (96kg).
@kiwi_expat surely you could acknowledge 3 of the 5 lightweight/pass/slow midfielders the saders have are All Blacks.....and so this opinion might be not a universal fact
surely you cant be surprised
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okay, we are getting somewhere
Foster isn't the problem, picking too many shit Crusaders is the problem. Limited, light slow Crusaders
That all played tests this year, but weren't the reason we lost.
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@kiwi_expat surely you could acknowledge 3 of the 5 lightweight/pass/slow midfielders the saders have are All Blacks.....and so this opinion might be not a universal fact
surely you cant be surprised
@kiwiwomble - It's Foster trying to put square pegs in round holes under Foster's vastly inferior system.
This article from Ben Smith basically summarizes what I've long argued previously.
Razor's innovative and resourceful systems & structures get the most out of relatively limited players - Foster then takes those same limited players and substitutes them directly into his (much less effective...) systems and people wonder why it doesn't exactly work out seamlessly.
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I'm not sure if you're being serious here? they fit into Razor's system well enough but Ennor, Havili, Goodhue, McCleod, Punivai are all quite limited players. They are either far too lightweight, too passive and slow, or defensively poor.
The other franchises have considerably more talented, dynamic, faster & larger midfield options.
Chiefs: Anton Lienert-Brown (102kg), Alex Nankivell (98kg), Quinn Tupaea (102kg), Gideon Wrampling (101kg), Rameka Poihipi (105kg - has been the standout midfielder for Canterbury, Punivai & McCleod have been woeful).
Highlanders: Thomas Umaga-Jenson (107kg), Ngatungane Punivai (102kg), Scott Gregory (100kg), Fetuli Paea (98kg), Raymond Nu'u (98kg), Patelesio Tomkinson (96kg), Josh Timu.
Hurricanes: Jordie Barrett (102kg), Peter Umaga-Jensen (103kg), Billy Proctor (97kg), Bailyn Sullivan (98kg), Teihorangi Walden (96kg).
Blues: Reiko Ioane (103kg), Tanielu Te'ela (107kg), Roger Tuivasa-Sheck (98kg), Bryce Heem (103kg), Tamati Tua (98kg), Corey Evans (96kg).
@kiwi_expat Really? 3 All Black midfielders in the squad and somehow they have the least talented midfield in the comp? You didn't include Leicester Fainga'nuku either who probably should have been capped by now at the very least (he's certainly good enough).
Come on, I know you're trying to prop up your pro Razor agenda (and you make some decent points along the way), but come on, this is a poor argument.
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@kiwi_expat Really? 3 All Black midfielders in the squad and somehow they have the least talented midfield in the comp? You didn't include Leicester Fainga'nuku either who probably should have been capped by now at the very least (he's certainly good enough).
Come on, I know you're trying to prop up your pro Razor agenda (and you make some decent points along the way), but come on, this is a poor argument.
@african-monkey thats a bloody good point
and also doesn't address things like of the Highlanders world beating midfield....two had season ending injuries, two other looks passable at NPC level and the other two have been used much more on the wing at super level and sio will kill someone of get carded....and that probably the only fact in this thread
i actually agree that maybe they can look better than they are because of how razor had the team playing....but im not going as far as saying its a fact theyre shit
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@african-monkey thats a bloody good point
and also doesn't address things like of the Highlanders world beating midfield....two had season ending injuries, two other looks passable at NPC level and the other two have been used much more on the wing at super level and sio will kill someone of get carded....and that probably the only fact in this thread
i actually agree that maybe they can look better than they are because of how razor had the team playing....but im not going as far as saying its a fact theyre shit
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2022:
i actually agree that maybe they can look better than they are because of how razor had the team playing....but im not going as far as saying its a fact theyre shit
Maybe? It's quite obvious the team appears far greater than the sum of their parts when they're performing at their best.
I remember a while back Squidge did an analysis of different club side's structures/systems & overall team cohesion. The Crusaders metrics were literally off the charts under Robertson and additionally exceeded the best results from other sporting codes as well.
