Foster, Robertson, Rennie etc
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@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@akan004 said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
Good interview with Steve Devine. Unlike some of our ex players who are nothing more than AB cheerleaders, he calls it the way it is. Very critical of Fozzie.
“I wasn’t exactly joyous about his coaching,” says Devine. “It was quite loose and unorganized as nobody really knew their role. I look at the team now and it’s exactly what I'm seeing.”that sounds familiar.
I thought about it and I decided we can give him some slack.
SA and Australia are also wilting a little and I think COVID/the tour is having an effect.
But the game plan is not changing, adjusting and some players are actually going backwards. I don't believe this isn't just the effect of COVID, touring, quarantine etc.
Rather than test new players as a matter of choice we do so as a matter of emergency. And the same winning strategy against us has become a go to by the competitors.Thats what I am seeing a disorganised team with no game plan and structure.Devine confirms my thinking having played under Foster he knows more than most.
Time for a change anyone has to better as HC,I have a bad feeling we will waste 4 years under this Coaching framework.And have to correct a lot of damage.How many years will it take to get us back on track after 2023,2 more years of this stuff will be horrendous.@chris kind of backs up the idea he thinks he can just stick 15 of the best players out there and one of them will do something special to win it
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@chris kind of backs up the idea he thinks he can just stick 15 of the best players out there and one of them will do something special to win it
@kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@chris kind of backs up the idea he thinks he can just stick 15 of the best players out there and one of them will do something special to win it
It seems that is what is happening doesn't it.Geez we can't keep going on like this.
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Interesting to read the comments and where people are talking up or down a player. My two questions are:
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How many different 9-10-12-13 combinations you used this year in 15 tests where injury was NOT a factor. If then answer is in double figures, well how the fuck is anyone meant to settle into that and make a team look good?
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Is the AB game plan on attack anything different to "Let's all stand wide and just beat someone eventually and rely on natural skill to score tries because NZ rugby uz choice bro!". Fuck it looks good when it works, but not when you're getting tackled repeatedly behind the A-line.
You know what? Just recycle my last long-winded post about poor tactics and coaching and dry powder etc.
The AB pack looked good on the weekend just after halftime when they finally realised giving it to the backs was only going to end up in a shit show of rush defence nailing your regulation spacing with no subtlety. That youngish French pack was there for the taking, and their scramble defence was probably the only thing that saved them a few more blushes.
In short, if I was an AB fan I'd be saying: FUCK the backs - they'll get a turn later. But mostly: fuck your coaches. And fuck grey/white jerseys, while we're here.
Now, as an Aussie: please keep Foster and carry on like this through to ... well, forever?
@nta said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
Now, as an Aussie: please keep Foster and carry on like this through to ... well, forever?
Pretty sure this is the opinion of the entire rugby world outside of New Zealand.
Interesting that Devine played under him and has such a low opinion of him. Have to wonder if some of the ABs are having the same thoughts.
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The other Southern Hemisphere teams all cleaned out their Northern opposition easily and consistently in the Northern series so the long away season and covid restrictions on players joining and leaving squad clearly is just an excuse from the Foster apologists. ABs should at least have an unbeaten record this year like the other 4 or 5 teams everyone knows have passed them. Any half decently coached team should be able to play well on the road as the players have less distractions too. And no point in rotating players or easing up. The whole point is to win by as much as possible and hammer the opposition for the whole 87.5 minutes with your best 15 to maintain the aura buit up over 100+ years.
Time to bring in Razor and save him the indignity of ever having his team lose again to the likes of the Highlanders and Chiefs when that was clearly only due to the heinous decision not to promote him. That will instantly transform George Bridge Richie Mounga Baydon Ennor and David Havili back into motivated world beaters and maestros of scintillating international backplay.
Just don't suffer him the indignity of asking him to join the AB's as an Assistant coach as the rot there now would surely impact him.
It is all so clear and obvious when you read and recycle what the acclaimed experts and passionate AB fans like Mark Reason Stephen Jones and Chris Rattue have to say and then you can quickly get confirmation from so many ferners that nobody in NZ disagrees with that expert analysis.
There! AB problems solved with no dissent. -
The other Southern Hemisphere teams all cleaned out their Northern opposition easily and consistently in the Northern series so the long away season and covid restrictions on players joining and leaving squad clearly is just an excuse from the Foster apologists. ABs should at least have an unbeaten record this year like the other 4 or 5 teams everyone knows have passed them. Any half decently coached team should be able to play well on the road as the players have less distractions too. And no point in rotating players or easing up. The whole point is to win by as much as possible and hammer the opposition for the whole 87.5 minutes with your best 15 to maintain the aura buit up over 100+ years.
Time to bring in Razor and save him the indignity of ever having his team lose again to the likes of the Highlanders and Chiefs when that was clearly only due to the heinous decision not to promote him. That will instantly transform George Bridge Richie Mounga Baydon Ennor and David Havili back into motivated world beaters and maestros of scintillating international backplay.
Just don't suffer him the indignity of asking him to join the AB's as an Assistant coach as the rot there now would surely impact him.
It is all so clear and obvious when you read and recycle what the acclaimed experts and passionate AB fans like Mark Reason Stephen Jones and Chris Rattue have to say and then you can quickly get confirmation from so many ferners that nobody in NZ disagrees with that expert analysis.
There! AB problems solved with no dissent.@arhs
You realise you are making excuses for a guy who has zero credentials and also lost back to back to Argentina (for the first time) and the Wallabies.There are never any actual positive claims made about Foster, just excuses and strawmen that an alternative coach (with an objectively better CV) might also not be up to it.
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@nzzp Here's a really insightful article by Ronan O'Gara about Razor and Foster's appointment in 2019:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/othersport/arid-30970187.html
"Irrespective how I word this, it will be interpreted incorrectly by some.
Being a strong advocate of Scott Robertson to replace Steve Hansen as All Blacks coach does not mean Ian Foster is not the right fit in my eyes.
But — there’s always a but — I can’t help feeling that the New Zealand Rugby hierarchy has missed a trick here.
Timing is everything, they say, and the timing for ‘Razor’ to assume the most prestigious post of his career was absolutely perfect.
He is a brilliant coach, a brilliant people person, and when Sam Whitelock returns from his gap year in Japan, he would have had a brilliant chemistry with his captain moving towards the next World Cup.
When I heard Razor hadn’t got the job, I started wondering where did he fall short? Of course, he didn’t fall short at all.
The NZRU clearly were looking for something different. Continuity? Experience? But what have they given up?
Razor’s vision for the All Blacks is something the players and the country will miss going forward.
I’d love to have seen his presentation, because rest assured, it would have been innovative and progressive and something the interview board would not have seen before. Perhaps too much so.
Maybe ‘falling short’ amounted to being too ‘out there’ for decision-makers in the NZRU, and I am only surmising here.
Rugby and society are changing so fast nowadays, it’s hard to keep up if you are in your twenties, never mind forty-something coaches like Razor and I. But he gets it.
He connects brilliantly with players 20 years younger than him. I believe that should be a pre-requisite for getting a job like this.
He just makes the game so enjoyable. Being in an All Black camp with Razor would have been a fun place to be.
Of course, there’s no reason to assume it won’t be like that under Ian Foster.
Those underwhelmed by his appointment point to the ‘sameness’ of the new set-up, but that does not take into consideration the player turnover in that time.
Foster is 54, he was clearly not ‘the people’s choice’, but that perception is very easily changed when you are racking up the W’s.
I worked closely with Scott Robertson for two years, so I am biased. It is argued that one of his main shortcomings is a lack of international test experience.
That’s an impossible argument to win either way but consider two things here — No 1, that is a stick used to beat a player, not a coach who has dominated the game in the southern hemisphere for three years.
And secondly, two thirds of the NZ team are his own Crusaders, many of them he has developed into All Black leaders.
Razor’s ability to get the best out of the remainder of the group when they pull on the black jersey is beyond dispute when you’ve seen him work at close quarters.
Where does he excel? His abilities in the area of people interaction and connection are off the charts. He stokes players’ passion, their identity, and their focus.
I saw all those things first hand in Christchurch and I think he would even ramp it up had he been the new All Blacks coach.
I do wonder was Razor even over the heads of some of the decision-makers in this process? I don’t mean that in a pejorative way, but he thinks fresh and he thinks different.
Maybe that scared some folk."
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
I do wonder was Razor even over the heads of some of the decision-makers in this process? I don’t mean that in a pejorative way, but he thinks fresh and he thinks different.
Maybe that scared some folk."This!
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The other Southern Hemisphere teams all cleaned out their Northern opposition easily and consistently in the Northern series so the long away season and covid restrictions on players joining and leaving squad clearly is just an excuse from the Foster apologists. ABs should at least have an unbeaten record this year like the other 4 or 5 teams everyone knows have passed them. Any half decently coached team should be able to play well on the road as the players have less distractions too. And no point in rotating players or easing up. The whole point is to win by as much as possible and hammer the opposition for the whole 87.5 minutes with your best 15 to maintain the aura buit up over 100+ years.
Time to bring in Razor and save him the indignity of ever having his team lose again to the likes of the Highlanders and Chiefs when that was clearly only due to the heinous decision not to promote him. That will instantly transform George Bridge Richie Mounga Baydon Ennor and David Havili back into motivated world beaters and maestros of scintillating international backplay.
Just don't suffer him the indignity of asking him to join the AB's as an Assistant coach as the rot there now would surely impact him.
It is all so clear and obvious when you read and recycle what the acclaimed experts and passionate AB fans like Mark Reason Stephen Jones and Chris Rattue have to say and then you can quickly get confirmation from so many ferners that nobody in NZ disagrees with that expert analysis.
There! AB problems solved with no dissent.@arhs said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
Time to bring in Razor and save him the indignity of ever having his team lose again to the likes of the Highlanders and Chiefs when that was clearly only due to the heinous decision not to promote him. That will instantly transform George Bridge Richie Mounga Baydon Ennor and David Havili back into motivated world beaters and maestros of scintillating international backplay.
If you think it's motivation they lack then you have hit the nail on the head regarding Foster. If the coach can't motivate his players because he's hopeless in himself then the coach has to go.
Foster must have the weakest CV for any of the top 6 teams in world rugby. (Are we still in the top 6? )
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@chris kind of backs up the idea he thinks he can just stick 15 of the best players out there and one of them will do something special to win it
@kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@chris kind of backs up the idea he thinks he can just stick 15 of the best players out there and one of them will do something special to win it
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@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@akan004 said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
Good interview with Steve Devine. Unlike some of our ex players who are nothing more than AB cheerleaders, he calls it the way it is. Very critical of Fozzie.
“I wasn’t exactly joyous about his coaching,” says Devine. “It was quite loose and unorganized as nobody really knew their role. I look at the team now and it’s exactly what I'm seeing.”that sounds familiar.
I thought about it and I decided we can give him some slack.
SA and Australia are also wilting a little and I think COVID/the tour is having an effect.
But the game plan is not changing, adjusting and some players are actually going backwards. I don't believe this isn't just the effect of COVID, touring, quarantine etc.
Rather than test new players as a matter of choice we do so as a matter of emergency. And the same winning strategy against us has become a go to by the competitors.Thats what I am seeing a disorganised team with no game plan and structure.Devine confirms my thinking having played under Foster he knows more than most.
Time for a change anyone has to better as HC,I have a bad feeling we will waste 4 years under this Coaching framework.And have to correct a lot of damage.How many years will it take to get us back on track after 2023,2 more years of this stuff will be horrendous.@chris where we also lose development time for our current crop of emerging players. So they might fall by the wayside for reasons other than talent/potential! not to mention the real and present danger of losing more while playing some weird brand of rugby that goes well in Fozzies head.
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NZRFU under pressure in the media for re-signing Fozzie. Hopefully they renege or he resigns
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@canefan said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
NZRFU under pressure in the media for re-signing Fozzie. Hopefully they renege or he resigns
yeah, if only his contract came up for renewal at the end of this year, eh.
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@nzzp NZR gave Fozzie the bed to make, now we have to sit and watch while Fozzie tries to put the fitted sheet on!
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@nzzp NZR gave Fozzie the bed to make, now we have to sit and watch while Fozzie tries to put the fitted sheet on!
he's putting it on the top! Noooooooooo
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I have some sympathy for the guy as he shouldn't have been there in the first place.
We knew this 5 years ago. NZRU did not.
If he does resign I imagine it will be because of family reasons etc etc.
@hooroo said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
I have some sympathy for the guy as he shouldn't have been there in the first place.
We knew this 5 years ago. NZRU did not.
If he does resign I imagine it will be because of family reasons etc etc.
Give the man some credit. If he is going to fall on his sword it won't be a sham. I think he would do it early and 'in the best interests' of the team.
The complicating factor is if his assistants and linked to his contract and that he wouldn't leave them in the lurch I think. -
@hooroo said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
I have some sympathy for the guy as he shouldn't have been there in the first place.
We knew this 5 years ago. NZRU did not.
If he does resign I imagine it will be because of family reasons etc etc.
Give the man some credit. If he is going to fall on his sword it won't be a sham. I think he would do it early and 'in the best interests' of the team.
The complicating factor is if his assistants and linked to his contract and that he wouldn't leave them in the lurch I think.@crucial said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@hooroo said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
I have some sympathy for the guy as he shouldn't have been there in the first place.
We knew this 5 years ago. NZRU did not.
If he does resign I imagine it will be because of family reasons etc etc.
Give the man some credit. If he is going to fall on his sword it won't be a sham. I think he would do it early and 'in the best interests' of the team.
The complicating factor is if his assistants and linked to his contract and that he wouldn't leave them in the lurch I think.I don't see where credit is due.
Who the hell comes out and says the team has progressed this year? He is in a dream world. I would hate to see what we looked liked if he though we were regressing.
Massively out of his league
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I have some sympathy for the guy as he shouldn't have been there in the first place.
We knew this 5 years ago. NZRU did not.
If he does resign I imagine it will be because of family reasons etc etc.
@hooroo said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
I have some sympathy for the guy as he shouldn't have been there in the first place.
We knew this 5 years ago. NZRU did not.
Respectfully, but we really did not. We knew that his record wasn't good, but we didn't know what he was doing behind the scenes with the ABs, alongside some seriously good coaches. So much goes on behind closed doors, there was a chance (small, admittedly) that he had lifted his game, found some depths that weren't readily visible, and vastly improved.
We feared he wasn't up to it, but we didn't know. Pedantic, I know, but we shouldn't retrospectively rewrite history. Otherwise it's like saying we 'know' that Nonu isn't up to it after his effort against Ireland in 2006
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I have some sympathy for the guy as he shouldn't have been there in the first place.
We knew this 5 years ago. NZRU did not.
If he does resign I imagine it will be because of family reasons etc etc.
@hooroo said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
I have some sympathy for the guy as he shouldn't have been there in the first place.
We knew this
5 years agowhile he was at the Chiefs. NZRU did not.If he does resign I imagine it will be because of family reasons etc etc.
I tend to agree, it s going to be tough on his family, i did have to edit the length of time though that we knew, I still can't believe he was hired to start with
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@hooroo said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
I have some sympathy for the guy as he shouldn't have been there in the first place.
We knew this 5 years ago. NZRU did not.
Respectfully, but we really did not. We knew that his record wasn't good, but we didn't know what he was doing behind the scenes with the ABs, alongside some seriously good coaches. So much goes on behind closed doors, there was a chance (small, admittedly) that he had lifted his game, found some depths that weren't readily visible, and vastly improved.
We feared he wasn't up to it, but we didn't know. Pedantic, I know, but we shouldn't retrospectively rewrite history. Otherwise it's like saying we 'know' that Nonu isn't up to it after his effort against Ireland in 2006
@nzzp said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
@hooroo said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
I have some sympathy for the guy as he shouldn't have been there in the first place.
We knew this 5 years ago. NZRU did not.
Respectfully, but we really did not. We knew that his record wasn't good, but we didn't know what he was doing behind the scenes with the ABs, alongside some seriously good coaches. So much goes on behind closed doors, there was a chance (small, admittedly) that he had lifted his game, found some depths that weren't readily visible, and vastly improved.
We feared he wasn't up to it, but we didn't know. Pedantic, I know, but we shouldn't retrospectively rewrite history. Otherwise it's like saying we 'know' that Nonu isn't up to it after his effort against Ireland in 2006
Fair enough....
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... but we knew, ya know
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@hooroo said in Foster, Robertson, Other Options etc:
I have some sympathy for the guy as he shouldn't have been there in the first place.
We knew this 5 years ago. NZRU did not.
Respectfully, but we really did not. We knew that his record wasn't good, but we didn't know what he was doing behind the scenes with the ABs, alongside some seriously good coaches. So much goes on behind closed doors, there was a chance (small, admittedly) that he had lifted his game, found some depths that weren't readily visible, and vastly improved.
We feared he wasn't up to it, but we didn't know. Pedantic, I know, but we shouldn't retrospectively rewrite history. Otherwise it's like saying we 'know' that Nonu isn't up to it after his effort against Ireland in 2006
@nzzp I tend to disagree you can only go on past performance and he never delivered at the Chiefs
