All Blacks vs Pumas II
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
Agreed. He looks safe under the high ball and that goes a long way to defusing South Africa's game.
Is this the reason Fozzie kept selecting Jordie at 14, I wonder?
Strategy seems to make sense now he has an actual winger at 14 and not a 15.
I think he mainly picked Jordie on the wing on the perception he'd be a low mistake/low risk option - compared to Sevu and Jordan.
As it turned out, I think Jordie's limitations as a genuine threat on the wing meant Fozzie's risk assessment was a bit flawed.
@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
I think he mainly picked Jordie on the wing on the perception he'd be a low mistake/low risk option - compared to Sevu and Jordan.
Might make sense - though Jordie was hardly brain-fart free when he was picked at 14.
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Anybody else catch when Jordan (I think) went and got in the Bargy Hooker's face after winning a penalty and and the hooker told him to "stop showing off .... you're too young to show off".
Thought that was an interesting sledge at international level! I remember as a kid I hated being told that I was showing off.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
Agreed. He looks safe under the high ball and that goes a long way to defusing South Africa's game.
Is this the reason Fozzie kept selecting Jordie at 14, I wonder?
Strategy seems to make sense now he has an actual winger at 14 and not a 15.
I think he mainly picked Jordie on the wing on the perception he'd be a low mistake/low risk option - compared to Sevu and Jordan.
As it turned out, I think Jordie's limitations as a genuine threat on the wing meant Fozzie's risk assessment was a bit flawed.
@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
Agreed. He looks safe under the high ball and that goes a long way to defusing South Africa's game.
Is this the reason Fozzie kept selecting Jordie at 14, I wonder?
Strategy seems to make sense now he has an actual winger at 14 and not a 15.
I think he mainly picked Jordie on the wing on the perception he'd be a low mistake/low risk option - compared to Sevu and Jordan.
As it turned out, I think Jordie's limitations as a genuine threat on the wing meant Fozzie's risk assessment was a bit flawed.
Where on earth would he get that perception from? Making it up in his head?
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@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
Agreed. He looks safe under the high ball and that goes a long way to defusing South Africa's game.
Is this the reason Fozzie kept selecting Jordie at 14, I wonder?
Strategy seems to make sense now he has an actual winger at 14 and not a 15.
I think he mainly picked Jordie on the wing on the perception he'd be a low mistake/low risk option - compared to Sevu and Jordan.
As it turned out, I think Jordie's limitations as a genuine threat on the wing meant Fozzie's risk assessment was a bit flawed.
Where on earth would he get that perception from? Making it up in his head?
@nepia Well, Jordan had never played a test, and I don't think Sevu was in as good a form last year as this.
So, experience and having a good Super season.
At the time, I thought it wasn't a bad plan given we'd had no warm up AB games.
History showing it was pretty flawed.
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@nepia Well, Jordan had never played a test, and I don't think Sevu was in as good a form last year as this.
So, experience and having a good Super season.
At the time, I thought it wasn't a bad plan given we'd had no warm up AB games.
History showing it was pretty flawed.
@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@nepia Well, Jordan had never played a test, and I don't think Sevu was in as good a form last year as this.
So, experience and having a good Super season.
At the time, I thought it wasn't a bad plan given we'd had no warm up AB games.
History showing it was pretty flawed.
Those two don’t matter, it’s the perception Jordie that’s the issue. It’s like Foster had never seen him play.
I should have finish the bold before those two.
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@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@nepia Well, Jordan had never played a test, and I don't think Sevu was in as good a form last year as this.
So, experience and having a good Super season.
At the time, I thought it wasn't a bad plan given we'd had no warm up AB games.
History showing it was pretty flawed.
Those two don’t matter, it’s the perception Jordie that’s the issue. It’s like Foster had never seen him play.
I should have finish the bold before those two.
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@nepia He does seem a bit like one of those Persian carpets - compulsory to have a flaw in every game!
Hopefully he's getting over it.
I'm still puzzled by where the loosies should play, Savea in particular, their versatility gets in the way of working out the best combos.
7/8(6?) Ardie and possibly Paps
6/8 or 8/6 Jacobson Ioane and possibly Blackadder (sure he's been there at 7 but I think that is his weakest and the most competitive position). Sotutu will only be selected at 8 so probably goes down the Foster ranking system.
If Cane returns (and as ex AB captain probably has some pull for Foster) he is also a 7/6 and I think may have played/temped as 8.Seems to me
6AIoane/Blackadder
7 Savea*/Paps
8 Jacobson/Savea*/Sotutu
are the likely rankings against the Boks so that means AIoane Savea Jacobson with probably Paps or Blackadder riding the pine.Gee, not that much between them.
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I'm still puzzled by where the loosies should play, Savea in particular, their versatility gets in the way of working out the best combos.
7/8(6?) Ardie and possibly Paps
6/8 or 8/6 Jacobson Ioane and possibly Blackadder (sure he's been there at 7 but I think that is his weakest and the most competitive position). Sotutu will only be selected at 8 so probably goes down the Foster ranking system.
If Cane returns (and as ex AB captain probably has some pull for Foster) he is also a 7/6 and I think may have played/temped as 8.Seems to me
6AIoane/Blackadder
7 Savea*/Paps
8 Jacobson/Savea*/Sotutu
are the likely rankings against the Boks so that means AIoane Savea Jacobson with probably Paps or Blackadder riding the pine.Gee, not that much between them.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
I'm still puzzled by where the loosies should play, Savea in particular, their versatility gets in the way of working out the best combos.
7/8(6?) Ardie and possibly Paps
6/8 or 8/6 Jacobson Ioane and possibly Blackadder (sure he's been there at 7 but I think that is his weakest and the most competitive position). Sotutu will only be selected at 8 so probably goes down the Foster ranking system.
If Cane returns (and as ex AB captain probably has some pull for Foster) he is also a 7/6 and I think may have played/temped as 8.Seems to me
6AIoane/Blackadder
7 Savea*/Paps
8 Jacobson/Savea*/Sotutu
are the likely rankings against the Boks so that means AIoane Savea Jacobson with probably Paps or Blackadder riding the pine.Gee, not that much between them.
All being fit, I like Ioane at 6, Cane at 7 and Jacobson at 8 to start.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
I'm still puzzled by where the loosies should play, Savea in particular, their versatility gets in the way of working out the best combos.
7/8(6?) Ardie and possibly Paps
6/8 or 8/6 Jacobson Ioane and possibly Blackadder (sure he's been there at 7 but I think that is his weakest and the most competitive position). Sotutu will only be selected at 8 so probably goes down the Foster ranking system.
If Cane returns (and as ex AB captain probably has some pull for Foster) he is also a 7/6 and I think may have played/temped as 8.Seems to me
6AIoane/Blackadder
7 Savea*/Paps
8 Jacobson/Savea*/Sotutu
are the likely rankings against the Boks so that means AIoane Savea Jacobson with probably Paps or Blackadder riding the pine.Gee, not that much between them.
All being fit, I like Ioane at 6, Cane at 7 and Jacobson at 8 to start.
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
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@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
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I will admit to not being sufficiently compos mentis to properly register this game live.
Mrs Boo and I may have had a couple of quiets prior to kick off in the Wobs v Bok game ... so I may have been slightly behind the 8 ball come kick off on the main game.
Anyways, watching a replay now.
Super impressed at 27 mins and 17-3.
Struggling to pick holes in anyone's game so far, including Blackadder. The latter remains at least 6th choice looseforward to my mind, maybe lower, but still an awesome 6th, 7th or 8th choice....
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I will admit to not being sufficiently compos mentis to properly register this game live.
Mrs Boo and I may have had a couple of quiets prior to kick off in the Wobs v Bok game ... so I may have been slightly behind the 8 ball come kick off on the main game.
Anyways, watching a replay now.
Super impressed at 27 mins and 17-3.
Struggling to pick holes in anyone's game so far, including Blackadder. The latter remains at least 6th choice looseforward to my mind, maybe lower, but still an awesome 6th, 7th or 8th choice....
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
I will admit to not being sufficiently compos mentis to properly register this game live.
Mrs Boo and I may have had a couple of quiets prior to kick off in the Wobs v Bok game ... so I may have been slightly behind the 8 ball come kick off on the main game.
Anyways, watching a replay now.
Super impressed at 27 mins and 17-3.
Struggling to pick holes in anyone's game so far, including Blackadder. The latter remains at least 6th choice looseforward to my mind, maybe lower, but still an awesome 6th, 7th or 8th choice....
Depth showcased
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I will admit to not being sufficiently compos mentis to properly register this game live.
Mrs Boo and I may have had a couple of quiets prior to kick off in the Wobs v Bok game ... so I may have been slightly behind the 8 ball come kick off on the main game.
Anyways, watching a replay now.
Super impressed at 27 mins and 17-3.
Struggling to pick holes in anyone's game so far, including Blackadder. The latter remains at least 6th choice looseforward to my mind, maybe lower, but still an awesome 6th, 7th or 8th choice....
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
I will admit to not being sufficiently compos mentis to properly register this game live.
Mrs Boo and I may have had a couple of quiets prior to kick off in the Wobs v Bok game ... so I may have been slightly behind the 8 ball come kick off on the main game.
Anyways, watching a replay now.
Super impressed at 27 mins and 17-3.
Struggling to pick holes in anyone's game so far, including Blackadder. The latter remains at least 6th choice looseforward to my mind, maybe lower, but still an awesome 6th, 7th or 8th choice....
I feel like this should be my tag line, no need for further elaboration
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@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim Are you kidding. One of my favourite players.
I absolutely do not believe that you ever expressed that sentiment until now.
In 2018, when Steve Hansen, riding Henry's coat tales, selected every player in NZ other than Ioane - was he one of your favourites then? He was just as good. Were you lamenting the selection of awful players like Luke Whitelock, Gareth Evans (fuck me!), and Shannon Frizzel over Akira Ioane?
This was his form then:
His form was irrelevant - because Hansen obviously blackballed him.
He was picked to train with the ABs for the France series in an apprentice role. In one of the Fern's big scoops, we got told at the time he got caught by Hansen sneaking back into the hotel at 2am (and he was drinking with a Ferner earlier in the evening).
And then he never appeared again - not even when Hansen took every man and his dog to Japan.
I'm sure that was part of the reason they didn't likeh im but it wasn't just that. I would have said on here at the time (which was probably around that time can't be arsed fact checking exact time) that I was at a presso given by Reuben Thorne showing all the software and tech they use for analysis and training. He specifically used Akira as an example to show in his words, why the AB's would always take Luke Whitelock over him. Gist of it was.. ball in hand awesome.. no surprises.. pretty much every other workrate stat they tracked he was at the bottom of the pile.
He would have been given some pretty clear messaging on his workons, and if they weren't seeing any improvements in those stats they wouldn't take him.for example Samis workons given to him at the start of the year were improving his throwing and increasing his ball carry. Now strengths and clear to see on the weekend.
@williethewaiter said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim Are you kidding. One of my favourite players.
I absolutely do not believe that you ever expressed that sentiment until now.
In 2018, when Steve Hansen, riding Henry's coat tales, selected every player in NZ other than Ioane - was he one of your favourites then? He was just as good. Were you lamenting the selection of awful players like Luke Whitelock, Gareth Evans (fuck me!), and Shannon Frizzel over Akira Ioane?
This was his form then:
His form was irrelevant - because Hansen obviously blackballed him.
He was picked to train with the ABs for the France series in an apprentice role. In one of the Fern's big scoops, we got told at the time he got caught by Hansen sneaking back into the hotel at 2am (and he was drinking with a Ferner earlier in the evening).
And then he never appeared again - not even when Hansen took every man and his dog to Japan.
I'm sure that was part of the reason they didn't likeh im but it wasn't just that. I would have said on here at the time (which was probably around that time can't be arsed fact checking exact time) that I was at a presso given by Reuben Thorne showing all the software and tech they use for analysis and training. He specifically used Akira as an example to show in his words, why the AB's would always take Luke Whitelock over him. Gist of it was.. ball in hand awesome.. no surprises.. pretty much every other workrate stat they tracked he was at the bottom of the pile.
He would have been given some pretty clear messaging on his workons, and if they weren't seeing any improvements in those stats they wouldn't take him.for example Samis workons given to him at the start of the year were improving his throwing and increasing his ball carry. Now strengths and clear to see on the weekend.
We are only guessing but my guess is that its a combo of things. My take would be that blaming Shag as if he had some sort of vendetta is nowhere near the whole story.
My guess is that early on they set targets and work ons for him and expected that he would show his desire to be part of the team by working hard toward them. Thing was that Akira was doing well at domestic level just doing what he had always done and didn't get his head around any need to push harder. I'd say that lines were drawn and things said about attitude if he wanted to be part of the team and any indication that he wasn't taking those seriously just pissed Shag off. The old 'lead a horse to water' thing.
Akira himself said that he had a big turn around in mental approach. A kind of awakening and finally turned things around himself which is want the coaches wanted. It just took longer than hoped and they couldn't go back on demands made.Hansen deserves copping it for dumb shit like leaving Cane on the bench etc but I really believe this was one of those standard things that just didn't work for Akira at that time in his life (look at what a different person he is on field now).
One other bit of fake news around Shag was 'not settling on a midfield'. Injuries and availability seem to affect 12 and 13 constantly. There aren't many complaints about it at the moment but this year alone we have had one combo play 3 times and 2 others 3 times. Hardly settled and we still have to see what happens when Goodhue comes back. -
@williethewaiter said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@tim Are you kidding. One of my favourite players.
I absolutely do not believe that you ever expressed that sentiment until now.
In 2018, when Steve Hansen, riding Henry's coat tales, selected every player in NZ other than Ioane - was he one of your favourites then? He was just as good. Were you lamenting the selection of awful players like Luke Whitelock, Gareth Evans (fuck me!), and Shannon Frizzel over Akira Ioane?
This was his form then:
His form was irrelevant - because Hansen obviously blackballed him.
He was picked to train with the ABs for the France series in an apprentice role. In one of the Fern's big scoops, we got told at the time he got caught by Hansen sneaking back into the hotel at 2am (and he was drinking with a Ferner earlier in the evening).
And then he never appeared again - not even when Hansen took every man and his dog to Japan.
I'm sure that was part of the reason they didn't likeh im but it wasn't just that. I would have said on here at the time (which was probably around that time can't be arsed fact checking exact time) that I was at a presso given by Reuben Thorne showing all the software and tech they use for analysis and training. He specifically used Akira as an example to show in his words, why the AB's would always take Luke Whitelock over him. Gist of it was.. ball in hand awesome.. no surprises.. pretty much every other workrate stat they tracked he was at the bottom of the pile.
He would have been given some pretty clear messaging on his workons, and if they weren't seeing any improvements in those stats they wouldn't take him.for example Samis workons given to him at the start of the year were improving his throwing and increasing his ball carry. Now strengths and clear to see on the weekend.
We are only guessing but my guess is that its a combo of things. My take would be that blaming Shag as if he had some sort of vendetta is nowhere near the whole story.
My guess is that early on they set targets and work ons for him and expected that he would show his desire to be part of the team by working hard toward them. Thing was that Akira was doing well at domestic level just doing what he had always done and didn't get his head around any need to push harder. I'd say that lines were drawn and things said about attitude if he wanted to be part of the team and any indication that he wasn't taking those seriously just pissed Shag off. The old 'lead a horse to water' thing.
Akira himself said that he had a big turn around in mental approach. A kind of awakening and finally turned things around himself which is want the coaches wanted. It just took longer than hoped and they couldn't go back on demands made.Hansen deserves copping it for dumb shit like leaving Cane on the bench etc but I really believe this was one of those standard things that just didn't work for Akira at that time in his life (look at what a different person he is on field now).
One other bit of fake news around Shag was 'not settling on a midfield'. Injuries and availability seem to affect 12 and 13 constantly. There aren't many complaints about it at the moment but this year alone we have had one combo play 3 times and 2 others 3 times. Hardly settled and we still have to see what happens when Goodhue comes back.@crucial Totally agree. They brought Akira in as an apprentice and tried the touchy feely. When that didn't work, they tried the nasty public (not they should ever do that, but still). Didn't work, made him worse. When Akira got himself sorted mentally (as per his interview with Ardie), BAM, long term 6 option at international not just SR level
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@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
Agree with all of that including giving Jacobson a run at 8 with Ardie off the bench.
btw where does Ethan Blackadder normally start for the Crusaders?
I haven't followed him closely but he looks like a 7/6 to me rather than a 6/7 if you get my drift ... pretty much did Paps role but with number 6 on his back as I saw it.
He and Paps are bloody abrasive, stick their heads in all the dark places in rucks and mauls, have big engines and leave little out there. They look like natural (but novice) test "animals".
Backrow potential looks outrageous with a bit more experience ...
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@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
Agree with all of that including giving Jacobson a run at 8 with Ardie off the bench.
btw where does Ethan Blackadder normally start for the Crusaders?
I haven't followed him closely but he looks like a 7/6 to me rather than a 6/7 if you get my drift ... pretty much did Paps role but with number 6 on his back as I saw it.
He and Paps are bloody abrasive, stick their heads in all the dark places in rucks and mauls, have big engines and leave little out there. They look like natural (but novice) test "animals".
Backrow potential looks outrageous with a bit more experience ...
@l_n_p said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
Agree with all of that including giving Jacobson a run at 8 with Ardie off the bench.
btw where does Ethan Blackadder normally start for the Crusaders?
I haven't followed him closely but he looks like a 7/6 to me rather than a 6/7 if you get my drift ... pretty much did Paps role but with number 6 on his back as I saw it.
He and Paps are bloody abrasive, stick their heads in all the dark places in rucks and mauls, have big engines and leave little out there. They look like natural (but novice) test "animals".
Backrow potential looks outrageous with a bit more experience ...
Blackadder plays 6 for the Crusaders,Razor did use him as a 7 in one
game this season.He has played most of his rugby at 6 although Foster did make the point the AB's see him as 7 cover. -
@crucial Totally agree. They brought Akira in as an apprentice and tried the touchy feely. When that didn't work, they tried the nasty public (not they should ever do that, but still). Didn't work, made him worse. When Akira got himself sorted mentally (as per his interview with Ardie), BAM, long term 6 option at international not just SR level
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@crucial Totally agree. They brought Akira in as an apprentice and tried the touchy feely. When that didn't work, they tried the nasty public (not they should ever do that, but still). Didn't work, made him worse. When Akira got himself sorted mentally (as per his interview with Ardie), BAM, long term 6 option at international not just SR level
Akira by the way I read him is a player you need to be honest with, and then tell him you back him and then do it.
I have coached a lot of players with that mind set, when and if you can get their trust they will give you 100% but you have to stay honest with that type of player and don't play head games.They need to know you rate them then they go to another Level. -
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:
@voodoo For this weekend I think I'd prefer to see Aoane, Paps, Ardie. Ardie and Paps to go absolutely nuts, whoever is more knackered gets to come off and have Jacobson come on to run through the exhausted boks and put that shoulder into some already struggling diaphragms.
Yep, I likes that. My back row was a fast forward to the whole squad being fit, Cane back and firing etc. I really like Jacobson though, and whilst I feel for Ardie, it just feels like his best number has double digits (no #12 jokes please...)
Agree with all of that including giving Jacobson a run at 8 with Ardie off the bench.
btw where does Ethan Blackadder normally start for the Crusaders?
I haven't followed him closely but he looks like a 7/6 to me rather than a 6/7 if you get my drift ... pretty much did Paps role but with number 6 on his back as I saw it.
He and Paps are bloody abrasive, stick their heads in all the dark places in rucks and mauls, have big engines and leave little out there. They look like natural (but novice) test "animals".
Backrow potential looks outrageous with a bit more experience ...
