Super Rugby News
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Excluding DC and Kaino's sabbaticals (Luatua isn't Kaino class) as they're in a different stratosphere to most players then Lucky was probably the only top player who left at his peak and came should have been at his peak. But he came back without all his explosiveness, and even though he probably got close to being a genuine AB pick again, he clearly wasn't the same player who left.
Hell, Luatua may come back a better player, but the fact is he left NZ (not on a NZR sabbatical) and to get selected again he needs to play in NZ.
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@akan004 said in Super Rugby News:
@bones I don't get what you are saying. The argument is whether or not players from the NH can come back and play at a highest level. Should it matter what nationality they are? If the South Africans can do it, why can't our guys?
Isn't the argument that NH players can come back and play well for the AB's? I mean sure, if the Saffas can do it, why can't our guys? I look forward to the ABs being as successful as the Springboks.
I'd class Japan as a bit of a misnomer, especially if someone is going over for basically half a season. It's a vastly different style of play and nowhere near as much of a slog.
@bones The three overseas based South Africans outplayed their Super 15 All Black counterparts pretty comprehensively which suggests that the step up from NH club rugby to Internationals can be done. Gietau and Mitchell also managed it for the Wobs in 2015. Besides, we are not picking Luatua for the World Cup squad right away, he will have the RCs to prove himself. If he fails, then Frizell gets the spot. Now that's a scary thought.
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@bones The three overseas based South Africans outplayed their Super 15 All Black counterparts pretty comprehensively which suggests that the step up from NH club rugby to Internationals can be done. Gietau and Mitchell also managed it for the Wobs in 2015. Besides, we are not picking Luatua for the World Cup squad right away, he will have the RCs to prove himself. If he fails, then Frizell gets the spot. Now that's a scary thought.
@akan004 said in Super Rugby News:
@bones The three overseas based South Africans outplayed their Super 15 All Black counterparts pretty comprehensively which suggests that the step up from NH club rugby to Internationals can be done. Gietau and Mitchell also managed it for the Wobs in 2015. Besides, we are not picking Luatua for the World Cup squad right away, he will have the RCs to prove himself. If he fails, then Frizell gets the spot. Now that's a scary thought.
Oh great! Hopefully we could do even better than SA and be as successful as Australia then. Le Roux outplayed Smith comprehensively? Yuh huh. How long have Faf and Le Roux been overseas? Is the third one Louw?
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@akan004 said in Super Rugby News:
@bones The three overseas based South Africans outplayed their Super 15 All Black counterparts pretty comprehensively which suggests that the step up from NH club rugby to Internationals can be done. Gietau and Mitchell also managed it for the Wobs in 2015. Besides, we are not picking Luatua for the World Cup squad right away, he will have the RCs to prove himself. If he fails, then Frizell gets the spot. Now that's a scary thought.
Oh great! Hopefully we could do even better than SA and be as successful as Australia then. Le Roux outplayed Smith comprehensively? Yuh huh. How long have Faf and Le Roux been overseas? Is the third one Louw?
@bones Comparing the success levels of the respective countries to prove your point is hardly being fair. We are looking at one or two players here, not the whole squad. Of course I wouldn't consider Luatua if we had a bunch of other players to pick from. But when Frizell is deemed to be our second best option, then surely it's worth a shot.
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@nepia Kaino's wasn't a sabbatical I don't think? He just went overseas post 2011 RWC then returned.
@kiwimurph said in Super Rugby News:
@nepia Kaino's wasn't a sabbatical I don't think? He just went overseas post 2011 RWC then returned.
Oh, I thought it was a sabbatical - or now that I think of it maybe it wasn't and I kind of remember thinking it was bullshit he wasn't offered one.
However, in that case I will repeat the bracketed: Luatua isn't Kaino class.
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@bones Comparing the success levels of the respective countries to prove your point is hardly being fair. We are looking at one or two players here, not the whole squad. Of course I wouldn't consider Luatua if we had a bunch of other players to pick from. But when Frizell is deemed to be our second best option, then surely it's worth a shot.
@akan004 said in Super Rugby News:
@bones Comparing the success levels of the respective countries to prove your point is hardly being fair. We are looking at one or two players here, not the whole squad. Of course I wouldn't consider Luatua if we had bunch of other players to pick from. But when Frizell is deemed to be our second best option, then surely it's worth a shot.
I'd say it's being very fair. I bet lots of players from other SH teams come back and play well for their sides. But do they play to the level required to make the ABs successful? I highly doubt it.
So is the third one Louw?
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Can't see it happening, because it would be pretty special treatment to be allowed to arrive back a couple of months before a RWC and be parachuted into the team. Sending a terrible message to all those who who stayed in NZ to fight for spots.
If Stephen thinks this is a chance then perhaps he should change his name to Sonny, because there's not many who've been rolled out a red carpet of this length and Stephen hasn't really been one of Hansen's favourite sons.
How is he going in the NH?
There's actually a pretty substantial queue for those loose forward spots.
Read, Cane, Squire, Savea, Todd, Frizell, Whitelock, SBarrett, Hemopo, Taufua, Fifita, Ioane.
Luatua was kind of a fringe AB pick at best, so he'd need to be putting in some pretty stellar performances to be considered in my view.
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@akan004 said in Super Rugby News:
@bones Comparing the success levels of the respective countries to prove your point is hardly being fair. We are looking at one or two players here, not the whole squad. Of course I wouldn't consider Luatua if we had bunch of other players to pick from. But when Frizell is deemed to be our second best option, then surely it's worth a shot.
I'd say it's being very fair. I bet lots of players from other SH teams come back and play well for their sides. But do they play to the level required to make the ABs successful? I highly doubt it.
So is the third one Louw?
@bones Luke Whitelock and Frizell both have been part of an incredibly successful AB team. Does this mean they are playing at a level that is required to make the ABs successful? I doubt it. Some would make that argument for Squire as well. Faf and Le Roux play for a lesser team but their individual levels of play are of a very high standard.
Yes, Louw outplayed Read. Granted Read is a far superior player but he was outplayed on the weekend.
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Can't see it happening, because it would be pretty special treatment to be allowed to arrive back a couple of months before a RWC and be parachuted into the team. Sending a terrible message to all those who who stayed in NZ to fight for spots.
If Stephen thinks this is a chance then perhaps he should change his name to Sonny, because there's not many who've been rolled out a red carpet of this length and Stephen hasn't really been one of Hansen's favourite sons.
How is he going in the NH?
There's actually a pretty substantial queue for those loose forward spots.
Read, Cane, Squire, Savea, Todd, Frizell, Whitelock, SBarrett, Hemopo, Taufua, Fifita, Ioane.
Luatua was kind of a fringe AB pick at best, so he'd need to be putting in some pretty stellar performances to be considered in my view.
@chris-b when Luatua left he was in some form.
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Can't see it happening, because it would be pretty special treatment to be allowed to arrive back a couple of months before a RWC and be parachuted into the team. Sending a terrible message to all those who who stayed in NZ to fight for spots.
If Stephen thinks this is a chance then perhaps he should change his name to Sonny, because there's not many who've been rolled out a red carpet of this length and Stephen hasn't really been one of Hansen's favourite sons.
How is he going in the NH?
There's actually a pretty substantial queue for those loose forward spots.
Read, Cane, Squire, Savea, Todd, Frizell, Whitelock, SBarrett, Hemopo, Taufua, Fifita, Ioane.
Luatua was kind of a fringe AB pick at best, so he'd need to be putting in some pretty stellar performances to be considered in my view.
@chris-b said in Super Rugby News:
Read, Cane, Squire, Savea, Todd, Frizell, Whitelock, SBarrett, Hemopo, Taufua, Fifita, Ioane.
Damn, is that Hansen's rating you've put them in? Isn't there another couple of Highlanders loosies you can put above Akira?
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@bones Luke Whitelock and Frizell both have been part of an incredibly successful AB team. Does this mean they are playing at a level that is required to make the ABs successful? I doubt it. Some would make that argument for Squire as well. Faf and Le Roux play for a lesser team but their individual levels of play are of a very high standard.
Yes, Louw outplayed Read. Granted Read is a far superior player but he was outplayed on the weekend.
@akan004 said in Super Rugby News:
@bones Luke Whitelock and Frizell both have been part of an incredibly successful AB team. Does this mean they are playing at a level that is required to make the ABs successful? I doubt it. Some would make that argument for Squire as well. Faf and Le Roux play for a lesser team but their individual levels of play are of a very high standard.
Yes, Louw outplayed Read. Granted Read is a far superior player but he was outplayed on the weekend.
Ok now I know you're not being serious. Louw and Le Roux didn't outplay their opposites - and even if some consider they did, I'd like to know how it reached comprehensive levels.
Whitelock and Frizzel are certainly playing at a level to help make the ABs successful. What's Luatua doing?
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@akan004 said in Super Rugby News:
@bones Luke Whitelock and Frizell both have been part of an incredibly successful AB team. Does this mean they are playing at a level that is required to make the ABs successful? I doubt it. Some would make that argument for Squire as well. Faf and Le Roux play for a lesser team but their individual levels of play are of a very high standard.
Yes, Louw outplayed Read. Granted Read is a far superior player but he was outplayed on the weekend.
Ok now I know you're not being serious. Louw and Le Roux didn't outplay their opposites - and even if some consider they did, I'd like to know how it reached comprehensive levels.
Whitelock and Frizzel are certainly playing at a level to help make the ABs successful. What's Luatua doing?
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Can't see it happening, because it would be pretty special treatment to be allowed to arrive back a couple of months before a RWC and be parachuted into the team. Sending a terrible message to all those who who stayed in NZ to fight for spots.
If Stephen thinks this is a chance then perhaps he should change his name to Sonny, because there's not many who've been rolled out a red carpet of this length and Stephen hasn't really been one of Hansen's favourite sons.
How is he going in the NH?
There's actually a pretty substantial queue for those loose forward spots.
Read, Cane, Squire, Savea, Todd, Frizell, Whitelock, SBarrett, Hemopo, Taufua, Fifita, Ioane.
Luatua was kind of a fringe AB pick at best, so he'd need to be putting in some pretty stellar performances to be considered in my view.
@chris-b said in Super Rugby News:
How is he going in the NH?
I've watched a couple of Bristol games this season. He was very good in both of those. Kaino-esque on defence and his running game was still strong
Maybe Hansen has been underwhelmed by the people he's given chances to and got on the phone to Luatua?
Which would be funny considering how poor the communication between them was -
@chris-b said in Super Rugby News:
Read, Cane, Squire, Savea, Todd, Frizell, Whitelock, SBarrett, Hemopo, Taufua, Fifita, Ioane.
Damn, is that Hansen's rating you've put them in? Isn't there another couple of Highlanders loosies you can put above Akira?
@nepia said in Super Rugby News:
@chris-b said in Super Rugby News:
Read, Cane, Squire, Savea, Todd, Frizell, Whitelock, SBarrett, Hemopo, Taufua, Fifita, Ioane.
Damn, is that Hansen's rating you've put them in? Isn't there another couple of Highlanders loosies you can put above Akira?
Not Hansen's ratings - but, based on past patterns of selection the only things we can be sure of are that Read is first on the list and Akira is last.
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@nepia said in Super Rugby News:
@chris-b said in Super Rugby News:
Read, Cane, Squire, Savea, Todd, Frizell, Whitelock, SBarrett, Hemopo, Taufua, Fifita, Ioane.
Damn, is that Hansen's rating you've put them in? Isn't there another couple of Highlanders loosies you can put above Akira?
Not Hansen's ratings - but, based on past patterns of selection the only things we can be sure of are that Read is first on the list and Akira is last.
@chris-b said in Super Rugby News:
@nepia said in Super Rugby News:
@chris-b said in Super Rugby News:
Read, Cane, Squire, Savea, Todd, Frizell, Whitelock, SBarrett, Hemopo, Taufua, Fifita, Ioane.
Damn, is that Hansen's rating you've put them in? Isn't there another couple of Highlanders loosies you can put above Akira?
Not Hansen's ratings - but, based on past patterns of selection the only things we can be sure of is that Read is first on the list and Akira is last.
I'm actually not 100% certain you didn't mean Reiko in case he looses all his speed between now and the RWC.
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@bones You must have low standards if you think Whitelock and Frizell are playing at an AB required level.
Comprehensive to describe Louw's performance against Read was incorrect, I will give you that.
@akan004 said in Super Rugby News:
@bones You must have low standards if you think Whitelock and Frizell are playing at an AB required level.
Comprehensive to describe Louw's performance against Read was incorrect, I will give you that.
Haha, my standards are high enough to not have to scour the EP for players!
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@chris-b said in Super Rugby News:
@nepia said in Super Rugby News:
@chris-b said in Super Rugby News:
Read, Cane, Squire, Savea, Todd, Frizell, Whitelock, SBarrett, Hemopo, Taufua, Fifita, Ioane.
Damn, is that Hansen's rating you've put them in? Isn't there another couple of Highlanders loosies you can put above Akira?
Not Hansen's ratings - but, based on past patterns of selection the only things we can be sure of is that Read is first on the list and Akira is last.
I'm actually not 100% certain you didn't mean Reiko in case he looses all his speed between now and the RWC.
@nepia said in Super Rugby News:
@chris-b said in Super Rugby News:
@nepia said in Super Rugby News:
@chris-b said in Super Rugby News:
Read, Cane, Squire, Savea, Todd, Frizell, Whitelock, SBarrett, Hemopo, Taufua, Fifita, Ioane.
Damn, is that Hansen's rating you've put them in? Isn't there another couple of Highlanders loosies you can put above Akira?
Not Hansen's ratings - but, based on past patterns of selection the only things we can be sure of is that Read is first on the list and Akira is last.
I'm actually not 100% certain you didn't mean Reiko in case he looses all his speed between now and the RWC.
I've got nothing against those Ioane boys. In fact, I wouldn't be unhappy to see Akira in the ABs, because it would probably mean Ta$man would have Frizell and that would be a substantial swing in the balance of power!
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I thought Frizzel was outstanding on his first start and was on par with rest of forwards for second start
@hooroo said in Super Rugby News:
I thought Frizzel was outstanding on his first start and was on par with rest of forwards for second start
You mean when the game when he ran off rucks like Fifita?
He did put in a good defensive shift against the Argentinians over there - although it's interesting what style of game he would have played if Whitelock was available.@Chris-B Would he make your starting lineup?
