All Blacks 2022
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@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@chris said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Can someone please remind me what side Ainsley plays on.
TH
Cheers. Just surprised he wasn't being mentioned
he is around Moodey's age maybe its that.
@chris said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@chris said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Can someone please remind me what side Ainsley plays on.
TH
Cheers. Just surprised he wasn't being mentioned
he is around Moodey's age maybe its that.
Joe Moody is 33
Ainsley is 26
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@chris said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@chris said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Can someone please remind me what side Ainsley plays on.
TH
Cheers. Just surprised he wasn't being mentioned
he is around Moodey's age maybe its that.
Joe Moody is 33
Ainsley is 26
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@chris said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@chris said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Can someone please remind me what side Ainsley plays on.
TH
Cheers. Just surprised he wasn't being mentioned
he is around Moodey's age maybe its that.
Joe Moody is 33
Ainsley is 26
Wow for some reason I thought he was in his 30's
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@kiwimurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@chris said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@chris said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Can someone please remind me what side Ainsley plays on.
TH
Cheers. Just surprised he wasn't being mentioned
he is around Moodey's age maybe its that.
Joe Moody is 33
Ainsley is 26
Wow for some reason I thought he was in his 30's
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@chris he was real young when he got his wallaby caps
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@chris he was real young when he got his wallaby caps
He must have been, he has was in Aussie for a while I assumed he was a lot older.
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@chris he was real young when he got his wallaby caps
He must have been, he has was in Aussie for a while I assumed he was a lot older.
@chris actually he was 22-23 so not as young as i thought, 2018
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@crucial If you think our current tight heads are limited, then what the hell would you want Mafileo in the ABs for? He may be a Harbour legend, but he is there to scrum and nothing else.
@tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial If you think our current tight heads are limited, then what the hell would you want Mafileo in the ABs for? He may be a Harbour legend, but he is there to scrum and nothing else.
I said he enters the discussion.
If the plan is to have a scrummager first and foremost then he's an option and possibly a better investment for next year than Laulala. -
So when discussing players there is little expectation or demand for change from what I can see.
Does that mean we except who we have?
Question to ask then is whether things really are the fault of the coaches or is it the cattle they are working with?
Think about it, we often see coaches obviously frustrated that the players aren't doing what they want or aren't executing under pressure.
I totally agree that overcoming those aspects is part of coaching but there must also be times where the coaching staff feel they have set the team up for a win only for a dumb penalty or a dropped ball by a player has derailed the mission. -
@nzzp yeah, apparently learning from mistakes, see 2007, and winning one RWC and leaving the core of a team that won the next one...doesn't mean much
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@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Don't we have a Fozzie thread somewhere?
Can we get this one back to discussing the 2022 ABs?Yes
All off topic posts will get deleted after this one. It's the same 3-4 posters that want every thread to be about one topic. It crowds out the good conversation
@duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Don't we have a Fozzie thread somewhere?
Can we get this one back to discussing the 2022 ABs?Yes
All off topic posts will get deleted after this one. It's the same 3-4 posters that want every thread to be about one topic. It crowds out the good conversation
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@chris-b said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@chris-b said in All Blacks 2022:
He's an import
nooooo
seriously?
an import? In the South Central Vikings?
I for one am shocked. Shocked i tell you
Pah!
If everyone else had produced as many good players as us, we wouldn't need to be having these fearful conversations about France and Ireland.
Frankly, if anyone else had....
You're pronouncing imported wrong.
@nepia said in All Blacks 2022:
@chris-b said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@chris-b said in All Blacks 2022:
He's an import
nooooo
seriously?
an import? In the South Central Vikings?
I for one am shocked. Shocked i tell you
Pah!
If everyone else had produced as many good players as us, we wouldn't need to be having these fearful conversations about France and Ireland.
Frankly, if anyone else had....
You're pronouncing imported wrong.
You have amazing hearing
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I’m less worried about our starting props then our bench. Karl T was fairly dreadful last year for example. If we select exactly the same props as 2021 then that will be ominous.
@billy-tell In the games against Ireland and France we were really dominated in the forwards in the first half.
Our bench props were not good, but it is odd to blame them more than the starters.
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@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@dan54 All Blacks have been poor, especially since 2020. Ireland are a better team. There is no negativity in that statement, it is what it is. Wouldn't an arrogant NZ supporter believe we will win in June? I just can't believe the articles in NZ surprised that Six Nations is faster and more physical than Super rugby etc, etc. NZ supporters do kind of live in a bubble if they think the ABs are still a world force. They potentially can be of course but.....some deep thinking and changes are needed.
No you misunderstood what was said, to say ABs lost against France etc because they are poor is arrogant and not giving France Ireland credit, which is arrogant. Sometimes other teams are just better. ABs won RC etc last years, so I guess if a poor team won that you are saying the Wallabies, Pumas and Boks are pretty crap. That is what Crowley is talking about, so called fans that just rubbish own team because they are beaten by a better team is arrogance!
And of course we can still want the ABs to win against Irish, I want them to beat Boks,etc etc too, but if another team beats them by playing as well as Irish etc have, I will accept it! Irish also beat everyone else apart from France, does that make everyone poor?@dan54 Yeah, I understand but the fact of the matter is, and with no slight on the opposition, the ABs played poorly.
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@dan54 Yeah, I understand but the fact of the matter is, and with no slight on the opposition, the ABs played poorly.
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@dan54 Yeah, I understand but the fact of the matter is, and with no slight on the opposition, the ABs played poorly.
Yes & No. Part of the reason we played poorly is because we played as well as the opposition would let us. The second reason is our decision making was average at best. Continued to try and play offensively when we needed to spend more time playing defensively. Chip kicks out of our 22 etc. WTF.
I'm not convinced that lf we had played as well as we could we would have won either match.
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So when discussing players there is little expectation or demand for change from what I can see.
Does that mean we except who we have?
Question to ask then is whether things really are the fault of the coaches or is it the cattle they are working with?
Think about it, we often see coaches obviously frustrated that the players aren't doing what they want or aren't executing under pressure.
I totally agree that overcoming those aspects is part of coaching but there must also be times where the coaching staff feel they have set the team up for a win only for a dumb penalty or a dropped ball by a player has derailed the mission.@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
So when discussing players there is little expectation or demand for change from what I can see.
Does that mean we except who we have?
Question to ask then is whether things really are the fault of the coaches or is it the cattle they are working with?
Think about it, we often see coaches obviously frustrated that the players aren't doing what they want or aren't executing under pressure.
I totally agree that overcoming those aspects is part of coaching but there must also be times where the coaching staff feel they have set the team up for a win only for a dumb penalty or a dropped ball by a player has derailed the mission.Or maybe you don't play a game plan that relies on ball-playing and ball-carrying by props who are first, foremost and exclusively scrummagers who can't run and pass...?
That's to say, it's clearly a cattle and coaching issue - we just don't have the players to play the game plan that the coaches clearly want to play. One would have thought that, after spending many years (in most case) trying to upskill players to play that way, but without success, the coaches may have thought of changing the game plan.
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@dan54 Yeah, I understand but the fact of the matter is, and with no slight on the opposition, the ABs played poorly.
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@dan54 Yeah, I understand but the fact of the matter is, and with no slight on the opposition, the ABs played poorly.
They played exactly as well as the opposition let them play. Ireland didn't seem to play that well against French in 6Ns, that was because the French didn't let them. It is the way in our game often I think. I have seen good teams play ABs over the years and look poor, just because ABs have made them look that way. Same with a lot of teams, when they get beaten up in frowards they will struggle to look good. And so I give credit to the team that plays that well. I understand that we not used to seeing the ABs beaten, but it has unfortunately been a trait of a lot of our supporters the first thing we do in a loss we attck the ABs , and don't give credit to other team. It is not just AB supporters, a good number of supporters do it, just this is something that Kieran Crowley pointed out.
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@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@dan54 Yeah, I understand but the fact of the matter is, and with no slight on the opposition, the ABs played poorly.
They played exactly as well as the opposition let them play. Ireland didn't seem to play that well against French in 6Ns, that was because the French didn't let them. It is the way in our game often I think. I have seen good teams play ABs over the years and look poor, just because ABs have made them look that way. Same with a lot of teams, when they get beaten up in frowards they will struggle to look good. And so I give credit to the team that plays that well. I understand that we not used to seeing the ABs beaten, but it has unfortunately been a trait of a lot of our supporters the first thing we do in a loss we attck the ABs , and don't give credit to other team. It is not just AB supporters, a good number of supporters do it, just this is something that Kieran Crowley pointed out.
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks 2022:
@dan54 Yeah, I understand but the fact of the matter is, and with no slight on the opposition, the ABs played poorly.
They played exactly as well as the opposition let them play. Ireland didn't seem to play that well against French in 6Ns, that was because the French didn't let them. It is the way in our game often I think. I have seen good teams play ABs over the years and look poor, just because ABs have made them look that way. Same with a lot of teams, when they get beaten up in frowards they will struggle to look good. And so I give credit to the team that plays that well. I understand that we not used to seeing the ABs beaten, but it has unfortunately been a trait of a lot of our supporters the first thing we do in a loss we attck the ABs , and don't give credit to other team. It is not just AB supporters, a good number of supporters do it, just this is something that Kieran Crowley pointed out.
That's a part of it, but the main reason we got done was because our forwards performed poorly.
Good teams over the years have looked poor against the ABs at times because of the fast paced game we played, due to our brilliant backs & athletic forwards that had the pace to link up with our backs to keep the momentum going... the forwards played a big part in that by playing with real aggression & cleaning out well at the breakdown.
The breakdown area is vital, it's by far the most contested part of the game, yet we consistently do a poor job there.Crowley said the ABs wouldn't be in the top 2 or 3 favourites for the RWC, that is probably a fair comment going by the way we played last season... but for him to say NZ supporters are arrogant is a ludicrous comment, ABs have a better win/loss record than any other team & have set the benchmark for yonks, so of course NZ supporters expect them to play to a very high standard in all test matches.
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IMO the ABs success over the past two decades has been built on
Defense, don't concede more than 20 points
Counter-attack. Ruthlessly exploit turnover and bad kicking to score the 23 points needed to win.We're not a multi-phase structure sort of side, other than to pull teams ragged to open those counter-attack opportunities (why we used to win so many games late). We don't bash teams in to submission. At our best we were very pragmatic with our field position, doing fuck all in our half (except on turnover).
What helped us was the inherent quality of our backs, and the fact that all our forwards have ball skills so movements don't die with them. Our level of support play was also second to none, guys would be queuing up to score.
Which is why the keys to beating us have been the same for ages. Don't turn the ball over. Don't kick aimlessly.
Where i think we have fallen down is, we are still trying to play this game. But, we are generating far fewer turnovers and our slightly passive linespeed means there are less shit kicks delivered to our back 3.
Why are we getting less turnovers? Other teams are winning collisions, making turnovers very hard, and we don't have breakdown guys of the quality we used to have.
Our overall skills are down meaning we shell maybe one or two more opportunities than we used to.
And our defence has gone from our greatest strength to i think our biggest weakness. Could you see the current side trapping South Africa in their 22 and just keeping them there to win a RWC semi?
And there is your difference.So where is plan B?
