All Blacks 2022
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 You've just reinforced my point. The ballance in the midfield needs to be right. The Chiefs v Crusaders game (in Hamilton) is a good example of a game where this worked really well, with Havili and Fainga'anuku combining. I prefer that over the Havili - Ennor combo. What's wrong with big runners like Leicester and Clarke wreaking havoc in the backline?
Oh, and which player doesn't usually improve over the season? Most players don't have their top form in the first few games.
On top of that, the importance of stats is limited and they only tell part of the story. For example, in the Hurricanes v Crusaders game, he broke the line, passed to - I think - Grace who passed to Jordan to score. So Grace gets the try assist, while it was Havili who created the scoring opportunity. That happens often.
You’ll notice I mentioned that offload and try. We had some discussion on the game thread that this type of play is almost exactly the sort of opportunity that won’t present itself against Ireland etc. I think that his rugby smarts to hunt out mismatches is really impressive but most of the NH teams have far improvedb defenses versus SH super rugby.
We are definitely missing players with the ability to pick out a player with a pass, like Snake and in later years Nonu. Taking it to the line and trying to offload all the time loses its effectiveness
Peak Weepu was awesome with that - his skills to hit the right player in traffic was ridiculous. Sensational skillset.
At his best, Weepu was like a 9/10. We needed it in the 2011 RWC
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 You've just reinforced my point. The ballance in the midfield needs to be right. The Chiefs v Crusaders game (in Hamilton) is a good example of a game where this worked really well, with Havili and Fainga'anuku combining. I prefer that over the Havili - Ennor combo. What's wrong with big runners like Leicester and Clarke wreaking havoc in the backline?
Oh, and which player doesn't usually improve over the season? Most players don't have their top form in the first few games.
On top of that, the importance of stats is limited and they only tell part of the story. For example, in the Hurricanes v Crusaders game, he broke the line, passed to - I think - Grace who passed to Jordan to score. So Grace gets the try assist, while it was Havili who created the scoring opportunity. That happens often.
You’ll notice I mentioned that offload and try. We had some discussion on the game thread that this type of play is almost exactly the sort of opportunity that won’t present itself against Ireland etc. I think that his rugby smarts to hunt out mismatches is really impressive but most of the NH teams have far improvedb defenses versus SH super rugby.
We are definitely missing players with the ability to pick out a player with a pass, like Snake and in later years Nonu. Taking it to the line and trying to offload all the time loses its effectiveness
@canefan said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 You've just reinforced my point. The ballance in the midfield needs to be right. The Chiefs v Crusaders game (in Hamilton) is a good example of a game where this worked really well, with Havili and Fainga'anuku combining. I prefer that over the Havili - Ennor combo. What's wrong with big runners like Leicester and Clarke wreaking havoc in the backline?
Oh, and which player doesn't usually improve over the season? Most players don't have their top form in the first few games.
On top of that, the importance of stats is limited and they only tell part of the story. For example, in the Hurricanes v Crusaders game, he broke the line, passed to - I think - Grace who passed to Jordan to score. So Grace gets the try assist, while it was Havili who created the scoring opportunity. That happens often.
You’ll notice I mentioned that offload and try. We had some discussion on the game thread that this type of play is almost exactly the sort of opportunity that won’t present itself against Ireland etc. I think that his rugby smarts to hunt out mismatches is really impressive but most of the NH teams have far improvedb defenses versus SH super rugby.
We are definitely missing players with the ability to pick out a player with a pass, like Snake and in later years Nonu. Taking it to the line and trying to offload all the time loses its effectiveness
memory isn't clear because i don't watch replays but
I don't remember lots of players in motion being a feature of 2021 All Black rugby. No point picking player how can find someone with a pass when no one is running in to holes.
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Aaron Smith is excellent at hitting players in traffic, but as @mariner4life says, we havent had many players moving providing opposition with options, meaning Smiths options werent that great in the past couple of seasons.
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Aaron Smith is excellent at hitting players in traffic, but as @mariner4life says, we havent had many players moving providing opposition with options, meaning Smiths options werent that great in the past couple of seasons.
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@taniwharugby as good as Arron he's been passed by a couple
@george33 not for passing, IMO, Nock is possibly the closest for hitting runners in traffic to Smith, but he lacks consistancy and has other flaws
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
@gt12 You've just reinforced my point. The ballance in the midfield needs to be right. The Chiefs v Crusaders game (in Hamilton) is a good example of a game where this worked really well, with Havili and Fainga'anuku combining. I prefer that over the Havili - Ennor combo. What's wrong with big runners like Leicester and Clarke wreaking havoc in the backline?
Oh, and which player doesn't usually improve over the season? Most players don't have their top form in the first few games.
On top of that, the importance of stats is limited and they only tell part of the story. For example, in the Hurricanes v Crusaders game, he broke the line, passed to - I think - Grace who passed to Jordan to score. So Grace gets the try assist, while it was Havili who created the scoring opportunity. That happens often.
You’ll notice I mentioned that offload and try. We had some discussion on the game thread that this type of play is almost exactly the sort of opportunity that won’t present itself against Ireland etc. I think that his rugby smarts to hunt out mismatches is really impressive but most of the NH teams have far improvedb defenses versus SH super rugby.
We are definitely missing players with the ability to pick out a player with a pass, like Snake and in later years Nonu. Taking it to the line and trying to offload all the time loses its effectiveness
memory isn't clear because i don't watch replays but
I don't remember lots of players in motion being a feature of 2021 All Black rugby. No point picking player how can find someone with a pass when no one is running in to holes.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
I don't remember lots of players in motion being a feature of 2021 All Black rugby. No point picking player how can find someone with a pass when no one is running in to holes.
I mentioned in the props thread that the tight 5 sucked at moving bodies last year. Another issue was the AB's set up their attack more shallow than the SR sides
Slow ball plus flat attack. Yuck. Thats why we got a static mess IMO. The timing looked shit and we even struggled to find space by passing out the back because the defence was up by then
Then there's a 10 and 12 that like travelling sideways to look for space..
If the tight forwards nail their role everything will look better. I do wonder if we need to set up deeper like the players are used to at SR level
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Form/ABs squad so far?:
Loose head prop: Ethan de groot, Alex Hogman, Joe Moody?
Hooker: Codie Taylor, Asafo Aumua, Samisoni Taukei'aho
Tight Head prop: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Tyrel Lomax, Ollie Norris?
Lock: Tupou Vaii, Scott Barrett, Brodie Retallick
Flanker/ No8: Ardie Savea, Sam Cane, Dalton Papalii, Ethan Blackadder, Hoskins Sotutu, Luke Jacobson
Halfback: Aaron Smith, Finlay Christie, Brad Webber
Fly half: Beauden Barrett, Richie Mo'unga, Stephen Perofeta
Winger/ Fullbacks: Leicester Fainga'anuku, Sevu Reece, Caleb Clarke, Jordie Barrett, Will Jordan
Centre: David Havili, Rieko Ioane, Quinn Tupaea, Jack Goodhue-when fit
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Form/ABs squad so far?:
Loose head prop: Ethan de groot, Alex Hogman, Joe Moody?
Hooker: Codie Taylor, Asafo Aumua, Samisoni Taukei'aho
Tight Head prop: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Tyrel Lomax, Ollie Norris?
Lock: Tupou Vaii, Scott Barrett, Brodie Retallick
Flanker/ No8: Ardie Savea, Sam Cane, Dalton Papalii, Ethan Blackadder, Hoskins Sotutu, Luke Jacobson
Halfback: Aaron Smith, Finlay Christie, Brad Webber
Fly half: Beauden Barrett, Richie Mo'unga, Stephen Perofeta
Winger/ Fullbacks: Leicester Fainga'anuku, Sevu Reece, Caleb Clarke, Jordie Barrett, Will Jordan
Centre: David Havili, Rieko Ioane, Quinn Tupaea, Jack Goodhue-when fit
@mackerzzzz Samisoni has to be included surely
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@mackerzzzz Samisoni has to be included surely
@fakatavafuture said in All Blacks 2022:
@mackerzzzz Samisoni has to be included surely
First name on the team sheet after last year. Fact!
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Form/ABs squad so far?:
Loose head prop: Ethan de groot, Alex Hogman, Joe Moody?
Hooker: Codie Taylor, Asafo Aumua, Samisoni Taukei'aho
Tight Head prop: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Tyrel Lomax, Ollie Norris?
Lock: Tupou Vaii, Scott Barrett, Brodie Retallick
Flanker/ No8: Ardie Savea, Sam Cane, Dalton Papalii, Ethan Blackadder, Hoskins Sotutu, Luke Jacobson
Halfback: Aaron Smith, Finlay Christie, Brad Webber
Fly half: Beauden Barrett, Richie Mo'unga, Stephen Perofeta
Winger/ Fullbacks: Leicester Fainga'anuku, Sevu Reece, Caleb Clarke, Jordie Barrett, Will Jordan
Centre: David Havili, Rieko Ioane, Quinn Tupaea, Jack Goodhue-when fit
Wouldn't be surprised to see Josh Lord in the mix somewhere for experience. Think he impressed Foster & co. last year. Ditto Stephen Perofeta.
Luke Jacobson?
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@mackerzzzz Samisoni has to be included surely
@fakatavafuture said in All Blacks 2022:
@mackerzzzz Samisoni has to be included surely
Uup forgot about him
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I'm seriously worried about our playmakers.
Both BB and RM last night showed serious flaws for test level. BB still relies on moments of brilliance (as does RM) but showed zero tactical awareness and control. I'm not just talking about the last 10 minutes either. When he did try to play tactically his skills (in particular kicking from hand) really let him down.
RM just isn't up to it defensively and if you can't hide him (or the opposition seek him out) it is 2019 semifinal all over again. -
I'm seriously worried about our playmakers.
Both BB and RM last night showed serious flaws for test level. BB still relies on moments of brilliance (as does RM) but showed zero tactical awareness and control. I'm not just talking about the last 10 minutes either. When he did try to play tactically his skills (in particular kicking from hand) really let him down.
RM just isn't up to it defensively and if you can't hide him (or the opposition seek him out) it is 2019 semifinal all over again.@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
I'm seriously worried about our playmakers.
Both BB and RM last night showed serious flaws for test level. BB still relies on moments of brilliance (as does RM) but showed zero tactical awareness and control. I'm not just talking about the last 10 minutes either. When he did try to play tactically his skills (in particular kicking from hand) really let him down.
RM just isn't up to it defensively and if you can't hide him (or the opposition seek him out) it is 2019 semifinal all over again.I wonder if leaving RM to defend at 10 like they did with first fives with similar issues back in the day would still work in the modern game. At least he would have other players around him to help out. When you hide him on the wing (for example) and the opposition 'find' him he is pretty much on his own.
When RM first came on the scene I remember him being talked up as a heavy hitter for a 10. Then he got some shoulder injuries...
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Looking over the stats from last night, it's interesting reading, Mo'unga apparently only missed one tackle (made 3, missed 1), but it was a try conceding tackle and would be on that would interest international coaches (as @Crucial mentioned above).
Havili had a pretty good game on one side of the ball with a beautiful pass for a try assist, 7 runs, 3 defenders beaten, and 1 offload,. However, he missed 4 tackles (made 5) and I would say that international coaches will be examining those. I remember one was being stepped by Barrett but I think a couple of the others were related to the big runners coming down his channel (hope someone does a rewatch).
I think the point made above about defending in the line is a reasonable one for discussion, Barrett missed 3 tackles last night and made 2, but many here would argue that he is still a more effective defender that Mo'unga. For me, his shit kicking from hand and 4 turnovers were a problem, although one of those was a knock on that would have been a try if he regathered.
I also see that they've updated the tackle stats - Paps had 23 made, zero missed.
like numbers for a guy who also got around the field so well. Given his size, we might be able to get away with Savea at 8 in a Rodders role if Paps can be the tackle machine and ball runner that Richie became during that time. -
Looking over the stats from last night, it's interesting reading, Mo'unga apparently only missed one tackle (made 3, missed 1), but it was a try conceding tackle and would be on that would interest international coaches (as @Crucial mentioned above).
Havili had a pretty good game on one side of the ball with a beautiful pass for a try assist, 7 runs, 3 defenders beaten, and 1 offload,. However, he missed 4 tackles (made 5) and I would say that international coaches will be examining those. I remember one was being stepped by Barrett but I think a couple of the others were related to the big runners coming down his channel (hope someone does a rewatch).
I think the point made above about defending in the line is a reasonable one for discussion, Barrett missed 3 tackles last night and made 2, but many here would argue that he is still a more effective defender that Mo'unga. For me, his shit kicking from hand and 4 turnovers were a problem, although one of those was a knock on that would have been a try if he regathered.
I also see that they've updated the tackle stats - Paps had 23 made, zero missed.
like numbers for a guy who also got around the field so well. Given his size, we might be able to get away with Savea at 8 in a Rodders role if Paps can be the tackle machine and ball runner that Richie became during that time. -
Firm selections for this season:
1 Hodgman
2 Taukei'aho
3 Tu'ungafasi9 Smith
10 B Barrett13 Ioane
14/15 Jordan
15 J Barrett (or is it at 12?)Lock is wide open, as are the loose forwards. Clarke is very close to being a lock at 11. Reece will get game time. 12 is the remaining question in the backs.
Form locks this year are arguably Lord and Goodhue. I don't expect them to start or make the 23 though.
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Firm selections for this season:
1 Hodgman
2 Taukei'aho
3 Tu'ungafasi9 Smith
10 B Barrett13 Ioane
14/15 Jordan
15 J Barrett (or is it at 12?)Lock is wide open, as are the loose forwards. Clarke is very close to being a lock at 11. Reece will get game time. 12 is the remaining question in the backs.
Form locks this year are arguably Lord and Goodhue. I don't expect them to start or make the 23 though.
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@arhs said in All Blacks 2022:
@tim Reece surely?
Fainganuku did himself no favors last night. He was anonymous.
Clarke had, until this week (when he will fall behind as he isn’t playing) the most clean breaks and was up there for tries too. On average, he might still be the leader as well.
It will really depend on whether Jordie is at 15. If so, one spot is available (11). If not, both Clarke and Reece would be good options down either flank.
