Foster, Robertson etc
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@Crucial was the "not presenting well" just the confidence we've heard mentioned as a negative?
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial was the "not presenting well" just the confidence we've heard mentioned as a negative?
Trying to put aside the gossip, hearsay and "a bloke down the pub told me, so I know more than you" bollocks, but looking at what people have actually said, it's clear to me NZR rate continuity, international experience and promoting from within highly. Foster fitted that bill and Robertson didn't. Not only that, the latter, by all accounts, made it clear he was only interested in the head job and either he, or his supporters, can be said to do a lot of media-puffing.
That sort of stuff probably wouldn't have gone down well with the people who make the decisions. And it's pretty clear the players rate Foster highly - it's interesting that some of the most vocal supporters are senior players those who've been coached by both Robertson & Foster. That will have impacted NZR's decision hugely, I think.
Personally, I'm completely agnostic on who coaches the ABs (I thought Foster should have gone after Ireland III), but if Robertson gets the nod, he'd better be the best AB coach of all time with a 90%+ win record after a few games in or the media shit-storm directed against him - and by extension the blokes who appointed him - is going to be epic.
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Ironically if we do well at the WC with this core group of players we can ask ourselves what the f**k happened over the last 3 years
@BerniesCorner said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Ironically if we do well at the WC with this core group of players we can ask ourselves what the f**k happened over the last 3 years
Covid.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
So Foster would like to keep him job by the sounds of his remarks and wants go to another WC.
“That is our goal. We know we have to earn everyone’s respect. And we want to do that - bring the World Cup home - and if we do, I want to be able to stand up, and I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.”
Imagine, the head coach of a National rugby team saying he and his players want to win the RWC. Not only that but, if they do win, wanting the opportunity to put his name forward to carry on.
Outrageous. Totally and utterly outrageous.....
Actually he said
“That is our goal. We know we have to earn everyone’s respect. And we want to do that - bring the World Cup home - and if we do, I want to be able to stand up, and I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.”"I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.”
He doesn't want them to choose now.
he wants to be able to say he "has the opportunity" ...another crack--what the hell does that mean, he wants to be interviewed for the job again or he just wants it given to him?@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Actually he said
“That is our goal. We know we have to earn everyone’s respect. And we want to do that - bring the World Cup home - and if we do, I want to be able to stand up, and I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.”Not sure if it's been covered but that kinda sounds like he's saying he should get given the right to renew if he's such. Not really worded well otherwise.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Actually he said
“That is our goal. We know we have to earn everyone’s respect. And we want to do that - bring the World Cup home - and if we do, I want to be able to stand up, and I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.”Not sure if it's been covered but that kinda sounds like he's saying he should get given the right to renew if he's such. Not really worded well otherwise.
@Bones said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Actually he said
“That is our goal. We know we have to earn everyone’s respect. And we want to do that - bring the World Cup home - and if we do, I want to be able to stand up, and I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.”Not sure if it's been covered but that kinda sounds like he's saying he should get given the right to renew if he's such. Not really worded well otherwise.
Yeah, my speculation of his position is that by not giving him the chance to re-apply, the NZRU are essentially saying that they don't see us having any chance of winning the thing.
If he does win it and wants to stay, but can't, that would be a unique situation for NZ rugby that wouldn't make him or the current coaching group feel particularly well supported.
[For the record, I don't think we will win it, and I don't want to see him stay on].
My position is that If they already know that they don't definitely don't want him in the job post world cup, they should have pulled the trigger last year.
My overarching feeling is that NZRU are run by a bunch of muppets (one in particular).
I used to think Tew stayed too long, but he was a master compared to the muppet show they've got going on there now.
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@Bones said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Actually he said
“That is our goal. We know we have to earn everyone’s respect. And we want to do that - bring the World Cup home - and if we do, I want to be able to stand up, and I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.”Not sure if it's been covered but that kinda sounds like he's saying he should get given the right to renew if he's such. Not really worded well otherwise.
Yeah, my speculation of his position is that by not giving him the chance to re-apply, the NZRU are essentially saying that they don't see us having any chance of winning the thing.
If he does win it and wants to stay, but can't, that would be a unique situation for NZ rugby that wouldn't make him or the current coaching group feel particularly well supported.
[For the record, I don't think we will win it, and I don't want to see him stay on].
My position is that If they already know that they don't definitely don't want him in the job post world cup, they should have pulled the trigger last year.
My overarching feeling is that NZRU are run by a bunch of muppets (one in particular).
I used to think Tew stayed too long, but he was a master compared to the muppet show they've got going on there now.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial was the "not presenting well" just the confidence we've heard mentioned as a negative?
Trying to put aside the gossip, hearsay and "a bloke down the pub told me, so I know more than you" bollocks, but looking at what people have actually said, it's clear to me NZR rate continuity, international experience and promoting from within highly. Foster fitted that bill and Robertson didn't. Not only that, the latter, by all accounts, made it clear he was only interested in the head job and either he, or his supporters, can be said to do a lot of media-puffing.
That sort of stuff probably wouldn't have gone down well with the people who make the decisions. And it's pretty clear the players rate Foster highly - it's interesting that some of the most vocal supporters are senior players those who've been coached by both Robertson & Foster. That will have impacted NZR's decision hugely, I think.
Personally, I'm completely agnostic on who coaches the ABs (I thought Foster should have gone after Ireland III), but if Robertson gets the nod, he'd better be the best AB coach of all time with a 90%+ win record after a few games in or the media shit-storm directed against him - and by extension the blokes who appointed him - is going to be epic.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Personally, I'm completely agnostic on who coaches the ABs (I thought Foster should have gone after Ireland III), but if Robertson gets the nod, he'd better be the best AB coach of all time with a 90%+ win record after a few games in or the media shit-storm directed against him - and by extension the blokes who appointed him - is going to be epic.
Nah, he will be given some leeway. Just like Foster was with all his shit performances.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial was the "not presenting well" just the confidence we've heard mentioned as a negative?
Trying to put aside the gossip, hearsay and "a bloke down the pub told me, so I know more than you" bollocks, but looking at what people have actually said, it's clear to me NZR rate continuity, international experience and promoting from within highly. Foster fitted that bill and Robertson didn't. Not only that, the latter, by all accounts, made it clear he was only interested in the head job and either he, or his supporters, can be said to do a lot of media-puffing.
That sort of stuff probably wouldn't have gone down well with the people who make the decisions. And it's pretty clear the players rate Foster highly - it's interesting that some of the most vocal supporters are senior players those who've been coached by both Robertson & Foster. That will have impacted NZR's decision hugely, I think.
Personally, I'm completely agnostic on who coaches the ABs (I thought Foster should have gone after Ireland III), but if Robertson gets the nod, he'd better be the best AB coach of all time with a 90%+ win record after a few games in or the media shit-storm directed against him - and by extension the blokes who appointed him - is going to be epic.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Personally, I'm completely agnostic on who coaches the ABs (I thought Foster should have gone after Ireland III), but if Robertson gets the nod, he'd better be the best AB coach of all time with a 90%+ win record after a few games in or the media shit-storm directed against him - and by extension the blokes who appointed him - is going to be epic.
that makes no sense. Foster lost 4/5 games at the end of the 1-2 Irish series and was told it was "not acceptable" by Mark Robinson (https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/62196682) so the shit storm was understandable..
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300639756/the-charts-that-put-ian-fosters-all-blacks-coaching-record-in-sharp-perspectivebut what about now, it is not much better even with Razor's forwards coach and an international head coach. Foster has now a WHOPPING 67.65% AB winning record so who could state with a straight face that the next AB coach has to have a 90% winning record, at a time other countries are stronger and the AB talent pool has weakened?
Would only make sense to Foster fans.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Personally, I'm completely agnostic on who coaches the ABs (I thought Foster should have gone after Ireland III), but if Robertson gets the nod, he'd better be the best AB coach of all time with a 90%+ win record after a few games in or the media shit-storm directed against him - and by extension the blokes who appointed him - is going to be epic.
Nah, he will be given some leeway. Just like Foster was with all his shit performances.
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Personally, I'm completely agnostic on who coaches the ABs (I thought Foster should have gone after Ireland III), but if Robertson gets the nod, he'd better be the best AB coach of all time with a 90%+ win record after a few games in or the media shit-storm directed against him - and by extension the blokes who appointed him - is going to be epic.
Nah, he will be given some leeway. Just like Foster was with all his shit performances.
One would hope so - any new coach deserves that - but a quick Google search shows Foster was getting it in the neck pretty much from day 1.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Personally, I'm completely agnostic on who coaches the ABs (I thought Foster should have gone after Ireland III), but if Robertson gets the nod, he'd better be the best AB coach of all time with a 90%+ win record after a few games in or the media shit-storm directed against him - and by extension the blokes who appointed him - is going to be epic.
that makes no sense. Foster lost 4/5 games at the end of the 1-2 Irish series and was told it was "not acceptable" by Mark Robinson (https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/62196682) so the shit storm was understandable..
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300639756/the-charts-that-put-ian-fosters-all-blacks-coaching-record-in-sharp-perspectivebut what about now, it is not much better even with Razor's forwards coach and an international head coach. Foster has now a WHOPPING 67.65% AB winning record so who could state with a straight face that the next AB coach has to have a 90% winning record, at a time other countries are stronger and the AB talent pool has weakened?
Would only make sense to Foster fans.
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Personally, I'm completely agnostic on who coaches the ABs (I thought Foster should have gone after Ireland III), but if Robertson gets the nod, he'd better be the best AB coach of all time with a 90%+ win record after a few games in or the media shit-storm directed against him - and by extension the blokes who appointed him - is going to be epic.
that makes no sense. Foster lost 4/5 games at the end of the 1-2 Irish series and was told it was "not acceptable" by Mark Robinson (https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/62196682) so the shit storm was understandable..
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300639756/the-charts-that-put-ian-fosters-all-blacks-coaching-record-in-sharp-perspectivebut what about now, it is not much better even with Razor's forwards coach and an international head coach. Foster has now a WHOPPING 67.65% AB winning record so who could state with a straight face that the next AB coach has to have a 90% winning record, at a time other countries are stronger and the AB talent pool has weakened?
Would only make sense to Foster fans.
I think you've just reinforced my point around expectation.
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@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Personally, I'm completely agnostic on who coaches the ABs (I thought Foster should have gone after Ireland III), but if Robertson gets the nod, he'd better be the best AB coach of all time with a 90%+ win record after a few games in or the media shit-storm directed against him - and by extension the blokes who appointed him - is going to be epic.
Nah, he will be given some leeway. Just like Foster was with all his shit performances.
One would hope so - any new coach deserves that - but a quick Google search shows Foster was getting it in the neck pretty much from day 1.
@Victor-Meldrew Headless chook play, a complete lack of tactics, picking players out of form, a seemingly complete lack of awareness of what was wrong, absolutely no innovation from the previous coaching set up and so forth was the reason for the negativity from the beginning.
The frustration from 2019 (or earlier) has been absolutely immense for AB fans and now Foster goes on a rant? I had sympathy for him but it is all gone now. I just want him to fuck off. -
Yep don't even mind losing now and again but the chaos was driving me insane.
Not very often in the past have the ABs been outthought but in recent times it became a pattern.The NZR have dug a hole and they are still in it
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@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Personally, I'm completely agnostic on who coaches the ABs (I thought Foster should have gone after Ireland III), but if Robertson gets the nod, he'd better be the best AB coach of all time with a 90%+ win record after a few games in or the media shit-storm directed against him - and by extension the blokes who appointed him - is going to be epic.
Nah, he will be given some leeway. Just like Foster was with all his shit performances.
One would hope so - any new coach deserves that - but a quick Google search shows Foster was getting it in the neck pretty much from day 1.
@Victor-Meldrew so people could see what was coming...
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@Victor-Meldrew Headless chook play, a complete lack of tactics, picking players out of form, a seemingly complete lack of awareness of what was wrong, absolutely no innovation from the previous coaching set up and so forth was the reason for the negativity from the beginning.
The frustration from 2019 (or earlier) has been absolutely immense for AB fans and now Foster goes on a rant? I had sympathy for him but it is all gone now. I just want him to fuck off.@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
hat was wrong, absolutely no innovation from the previous coaching set up and so forth was the reason for the negativity from the beginning.
It would have helped if he had won at least one super rugby title. And the Chiefs fans rated him highly as a head coach. In other words an outstanding or VG record at the next level down
Robertson irritates me but he's got the record. And may be exactly what NZ rugby needs right now.
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@Victor-Meldrew so people could see what was coming...
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew so people could see what was coming...
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew so people could see what was coming...
Because we had the same shit already for 2 or 3 years, everyone with half a brain realized that foster was going to be a continuation of late Hansen lack of innovation and mediocrity. Or worse, which is the actual case, sadly.
And getting rid of foster even if he wins is not unprecedented, just unprecedented here. C.f. South Africa. It also says in no uncertain terms that winning the cup is not the be all and end all for the ABs, which is as it should be. It is not acceptable to be shit for 4 years as long as you win the cup
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Remember when it wasn't acceptable to be excellent for four years then not win the cup?
I do think that frustrations have caused a bit of revisionism with fans. This has not been a 'normal' cycle.
Foster's first game in charge was almost a whole year after the last time they played then the hell season of covid where virtually no cohesive plans could take place with some players in and out for periods, a very long away time and no home comps of quality for the next tier down. He has also had to deal with selecting from a pool that has had regular comp against SA taken away and that has shown big time.
I'm not trying to make excuses for him as this 'perfect storm' period has highlighted his weaknesses (especially loyalty over form in both players and staff) but think that any coach would have struggled to implement a measured programme of change through that much disruption.
Combine all that with the surge of Ireland and France as very improved sides and we got what we got.
Could someone else have done better? Quite possibly. That doesn't make him the muppet he gets painted as though.
Fans desiring wins is one thing. Fans feeling entitled to wins is another and shows to me either short memories or no knowledge of rugby history. -
If Fozzie doesn't realise how lucky he is to still be coach he is delusional. We were a rabble under his watch, as a result the NZRFU forced Schmidt and Ryan on him, which resulted in significant improvement. But if he lost that game in SA he was a goneburger. I want him to stop talking in the media acting all butt hurt, and fucken just get on with trying to win the Bled and the RWC. I'll be more than happy if he does this as a big FU to the union on his way out the door
@canefan said in Foster, Robertson etc:
If Fozzie doesn't realise how lucky he is to still be coach he is delusional. We were a rabble under his watch, as a result the NZRFU forced Schmidt and Ryan on him, which resulted in significant improvement. But if he lost that game in SA he was a goneburger. I want him to stop talking in the media acting all butt hurt, and fucken just get on with trying to win the Bled and the RWC. I'll be more than happy if he does this as a big FU to the union on his way out the door
My annoyance is that if the NZRU rate him so lowly why is he still there?
It seems a suicidal risk to go into the world cup with a coach you don't rate or believe is good enough. They should have simply gotten rid of him and not had this shambles being played out in the media as it is now.
The fact Fozzie is still there is not "his fault" if we are all incredulous and angry that he's there our ire should be pointed at the NZR (who put him there and could remove him from there) - not Fozzie.
If they just fired him in SA I would have been happy.
If they had said nothing in the media (and Robertson and Fozzie had said nothing either) I'd be less happy as I don't rate Foster but at least the NZR is showing a unified front to win the RWC.
As it is we have a hopeless half-way house of an inadequate coach and a top level rugby community (coach, players, NZR) seemingly split on two sides as we head into the RWC.
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Remember when it wasn't acceptable to be excellent for four years then not win the cup?
I do think that frustrations have caused a bit of revisionism with fans. This has not been a 'normal' cycle.
Foster's first game in charge was almost a whole year after the last time they played then the hell season of covid where virtually no cohesive plans could take place with some players in and out for periods, a very long away time and no home comps of quality for the next tier down. He has also had to deal with selecting from a pool that has had regular comp against SA taken away and that has shown big time.
I'm not trying to make excuses for him as this 'perfect storm' period has highlighted his weaknesses (especially loyalty over form in both players and staff) but think that any coach would have struggled to implement a measured programme of change through that much disruption.
Combine all that with the surge of Ireland and France as very improved sides and we got what we got.
Could someone else have done better? Quite possibly. That doesn't make him the muppet he gets painted as though.
Fans desiring wins is one thing. Fans feeling entitled to wins is another and shows to me either short memories or no knowledge of rugby history. -
What's revisionist is the claim that it was ever acceptable to lose games irrespective of against who or when. Doesn't matter if it's the RWC or the intervening years. It's ridiculous to claim that AB fans would have happily accepted one or the other.
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Can we accept the fact that sometimes another team can be better than us?
If not, why watch? There is then only the possibly of getting pissed off. No elation over an expected win, just annoyance at a loss.
I expect and accept good performance. If that isn't enough because the other team is better so be it.
Agree that it isn't acceptable to play below a high standard but winning and losing can be separate thing.
