All Black backline

reprobate

For all the talk of Goodhue being too slow, how many times has he actually been skinned on the outside? Ioane on the other hand contributes to loads of defensive misalignments and miscommunications, and that costs territory and tries regularly. He's an excellent tackler, and his speed gets him out of trouble a lot, but he's a big contributor to our poor defensive system. He's also one of the too many players we have who contribute multiple turnovers to the opposition every game. And on attack he blows tries by ignoring support, runs his outsides out of space, and has slow hands.
He's a great runner ball in hand, sensational in fact. Wing.

Doesn't really matter how much better Goodhue is anyway though, because he's forever injured.

MN5

@Machpants said in All Black backline:

@MN5 said in All Black backline:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Black backline:

11- Clarke
12- Jordie
13- Ioane
14- Reece
15- Jordan

That try that Jordie set up for Clarke, was a perfect example of what Jordie was doing during super rugby and what he is capable of as a midfield option.

I think Reece needs to be in the side. He’s quite different to all of our other backs because he’s both a creator and finisher.

Crikey, just a bit of a shuffle and all of a sudden that backline looks a shitload better.

Thanks for your efforts Havili but time to move on.

I’m picking the usual naysayers pointing out Jordie hasn’t played 12 since he was about five years old but that’s the fern for ya.

Apart from SR this year

True ferners don’t let facts get in the way of rants

Grooter

@Machpants I remember at the time when Jordie was playing 12.. Ollie Richie asked Foster if Jordie could factor in the midfield for the ABs and Foster basically replied why would he? he's the best Fullback in the country! stuck in his ways is Fozzie

canefan

@FakatavaAllBlack said in All Black backline:

@Machpants I remember at the time when Jordie was playing 12.. Ollie Richie asked Foster if Jordie could factor in the midfield for the ABs and Foster basically replied why would he? he's the best Fullback in the country! stuck in his ways is Fozzie

Losing ways

nostrildamus

@RoninWC said in All Black backline:

@MiketheSnow said in All Black backline:

@BartMan said in All Black backline:

Never before have I seen an AB backline so lacking in ideas on attack. Not just this test, but the last 18 months. Havilli is not the answer at 12, Ioane at 13, maybe. But who to come in. We've had nothing world class since Nonu and Smith.

ALB and Goodhue would fix things overnight if you could get both of them on the pitch at the same time

As someone who played in the centres and on the wing most of my playing career, I'm going to disagree here. ALB yes, Goodhue, no.

In my opinion, I think Goodhue was part of the problem before he got injured as he just doesn't have the pace needed and frankly I don't think he distrubutes well and he makes few metres with the ball in hand. Yes, he is a good but not great 13 but a poor 12.

Havili is even worse at 12 and is not the answer to any question with respect to the ABs, 12 or otherwise.

I find it absolutely mind numbingly bonkers that for the past couple/few games, Foster takes off Ioane and leaves on Havili and we end up with QT and Havili in the centres.
It just leaves me going WTF and wanting to throw things at the TV.

QT and RTS need to get more time at 12 and leave RI at 13 to partner with them.

I also agree with those who suggest either of the Umaga-Jensen brothers, if and it's a big if... they can just stay fit and healthy, could be a long term answer. PUJ looked at home in the Black jersey in that one match.

I agree with everything above (although I thought Goodhue was a far better distributor than our current centres I grant you he wasn't best in the world category).

nostrildamus

@Kiwiwomble said in All Black backline:

@MiketheSnow said in All Black backline:

@BartMan said in All Black backline:

Never before have I seen an AB backline so lacking in ideas on attack. Not just this test, but the last 18 months. Havilli is not the answer at 12, Ioane at 13, maybe. But who to come in. We've had nothing world class since Nonu and Smith.

ALB and Goodhue would fix things overnight if you could get both of them on the pitch at the same time

if we're just wishing for unlikely things to happen then why not just wish for nonu and smith to come back as 21 year olds

They have sons, Conrad had one in 2014 and Ma'a has 2/3 sons I think and at least 2 are older but we will probably have to wait another 12 years. Not sure if Foster will hold onto the coaching reins that long though.

pakman

Bring back Mehrts!

nostrildamus

@Yeahtheboys said in All Black backline:

Ardie is just the best loose forward in all 3 positions by some distance. J

Sorry, great player, but that is a big call. All 3 positions by some distance-really?!

ACT Crusader

@Yeahtheboys said in All Black backline:

Ardie is just the best loose forward in all 3 positions by some distance.

He's also our best 2nd 5, and tall enough to play lock too.

antipodean

@nostrildamus said in All Black backline:

@Yeahtheboys said in All Black backline:

Ardie is just the best loose forward in all 3 positions by some distance. J

Sorry, great player, but that is a big call. All 3 positions by some distance-really?!

He's just the bestest if you want a loose forward that inspects rucks.

nostrildamus

@antipodean said in All Black backline:

@nostrildamus said in All Black backline:

@Yeahtheboys said in All Black backline:

Ardie is just the best loose forward in all 3 positions by some distance. J

Sorry, great player, but that is a big call. All 3 positions by some distance-really?!

He's just the bestest if you want a loose forward that inspects rucks.

You've just set off all the Akira haters!
I vaguely recall Ardie at 6 for ABs and not really standing out.

reprobate

He's no Kremer.

Yeahtheboys

2027 world cup team

Norris
Taukeiaho
Newell
S. Barrett
Vaai
Savea
Papalii
Sotutu
Christie
Mounga
Reiko
Tupaea
ALB
Jordan
Jordie

Bench

Aumua / Thompson
De Groot
Lomax
Vaai
Grace
Fakatava / Roigard / Hotham / Ratima / Roe?
Dmac
RTS

Yeahtheboys

@nostrildamus I do love watching the world crash and burn

ACT Crusader

@RoninWC my only concern with what you've said is that you are calling out Goodhue's distribution, and that's fine, but you are calling for QT to be given more playing time when his distribution is probably worse based on both AB and SR form. So either he is picked because he is a project and we are in hope that he has a drastic change to that area.

RTS is an unknown quantity and whilst I don't mind his running game, I'd prefer a ball playing 2nd 5. Not too many of those other than the guy with the AB 15 on his back....

I agree that Ioane needs to be persisted with at 13.

MN5

@Yeahtheboys said in All Black backline:

@nostrildamus I do love watching the world crash and burn

It’s always great to grab the popcorn and sit and watch when someone dares criticise Akira Ioane on here.

Chris B.

@Yeahtheboys Right now, I'd agree with all your starting eight except I'd move Ardie to 7, and play Sotutu at 8.

Even though Tyrel Lomax is one of my Mako boys, I've still got question marks about him - if he's our no. 1 tighthead I'm a bit worried.

RoninWC

@ACT-Crusader said in All Black backline:

@RoninWC my only concern with what you've said is that you are calling out Goodhue's distribution, and that's fine, but you are calling for QT to be given more playing time when his distribution is probably worse based on both AB and SR form. So either he is picked because he is a project and we are in hope that he has a drastic change to that area.

RTS is an unknown quantity and whilst I don't mind his running game, I'd prefer a ball playing 2nd 5. Not too many of those other than the guy with the AB 15 on his back....

I agree that Ioane needs to be persisted with at 13.

@ACT-Crusader let me start by saying, in terms of Goodhue, I said he's a good (but not great) 13. Secondly, he's not even playing so in reality, doesn't even enter into the conversation at the moment.

I would say that most people don't think him a good 12 at all and shouldn't even enter the conversation around 12.

My calls for QT and RTS to get more of a run is because in my view, David Havili has been an abject failure at 12 and given we have 2 other options within the squad who are 12's, we should be giving them a go.

And no, that doesn't mean subbing off R. Ioane and bringing on QT with DH which makes absolutely no sense at all.

But Foster has his favourites and cannot see past his nose when making selections and is probably the worst maker of substitutions I've ever seen in the game of Rugby.

Another point, if David Havili wasn't/isn't a project at 12 then I don't know what a project is. QT couldn't do any worse and has more upside being that he actually seems to be able to bend and break a line when tucking the ball under his arm.

I also disagree somewhat with your statement that QT isn't a distributor. Based on his Super Rugby form, he can distribute quite well but yes, he often takes the option to hit the ball up.

From what I've seen of the AB's over the past 2 years, we keep chucking the ball wide hoping that one of our wings or RI will make a "x-factor" break.

Maybe having a 12 that's prepared to truck it up into contact instead of shuffling the ball sideways and backwards or as DH seems want to do, make massive cut out passes to no one will help keep defences more honest in close and allow our X Factor players out wide more room.

Finally with respect to our issues at 12, I think that RTS has shown enough and is a good enough athlete to be given a shot. Again, I can't see how he could be any worse than David Havili at 12.

Kiwiwomble

@reprobate said in All Black backline:

For all the talk of Goodhue being too slow, how many times has he actually been skinned on the outside? Ioane on the other hand contributes to loads of defensive misalignments and miscommunications, and that costs territory and tries regularly. He's an excellent tackler, and his speed gets him out of trouble a lot, but he's a big contributor to our poor defensive system. He's also one of the too many players we have who contribute multiple turnovers to the opposition every game. And on attack he blows tries by ignoring support, runs his outsides out of space, and has slow hands.
He's a great runner ball in hand, sensational in fact. Wing.

Doesn't really matter how much better Goodhue is anyway though, because he's forever injured.

i couldn't tell you....mainly because i cant remember the last time he played for the AB's...starting to wonder if he's just a myth

mariner4life

can some one articulate what the collective Fern minds mean by "distribution" because it appears to be a word that gets thrown around a fucking lot with very little to back it up except vibe and mabo

The Silver Fern

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