All Blacks vs Scotland
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@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@bayimports said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I'm sick of these people on here claiming we need to find a second option to JB.
So your answer is not to bother about any back-ups at 12 and just play Jordie there and give bugger-all thought to managing his workload?
The only problem with that is what you do (apart from blaming Foster for being an idiot for not developing MF options) if/when Jordie gets injured.
Listen to yourself FFS. We have 10 tests or so. Potentially our greatest pairing had something like 30-40 in a partnership over 6 or 7 years to become O for awesome. Wats your suggestion? Keep playing alternative 12s for the next fucking 10 tests until we find JBs* back up? We don't have fucking time because Foster has been shit for the last 3 years. We're a year behind in our development. Ideally all this shit would have been sorted last year. It's fucking unbelievable you're still advocating for a merry-go-round in selections to search for backups for the backups with 10 tests to go. We either lock in our combinations now and hope to gel as a unit OR keep this rotation of selection going until the QF against SA or Ireland. Because it worked out fucking well in 2019.
While your point has some validity it is also throwing all the eggs in one basket and, as pointed out, those advocting this approach would also be first in the queue to complain about a lack of contingency panning.
Yes, we know DH's limitations and that he is second choice (at best). What we also need to do is play situations that adjust around those limitations in case he is called on. In other words, would you play the same plan with JB as DH?
Certainly decide if JB/RI is the first choice paring and give then plenty of time together. What @Victor-Meldrew was suggesting is that you also have to plan for things going wrong at the same time. Sometimes that may mean a start for someone else or a shuffle.I agree with what you are saying however I have now seen enough of DH to say he shouldn't even be in the equation. Tried and failed enough. If we need a back-up combo then ALB with little rugby in his legs looked better. Work on him as the back up. DH can go prepare for the Crusaders
I get that to. I was only using DH as an example as he seems to be the one currently in that backup spot. The arguments are that we should play JB/RI every game for as long as possible.
Given that both will have decent workloads in Super I'm not convinced that we need to overload them with minutes however the 2023 schedule isn't known yet and is a complete balls up due to the FIFA stadia use requirements. (No games on any stadia used by FIFA for 4 weeks before their first game). At the moment there will be no EP games for the ABs and FBS is the only likely 'usual' place available once FIFA have finished there early August. We will end up at Mt Smart.
Fot that reson I won't think too far ahead on this strategy.Resting Ioane was fine. Jordie started this game and will start the next. Insane to move him from 12 when he's playing anyway.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Resting Ioane was fine. Jordie started this game and will start the next. Insane to move him from 12 when he's playing anyway.
Thanks you made my point better than I did.
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Reece Telea and Jordan at FB would be handy. BB off the bench.
One of Fosters faults over the last 3 years has been blind loyalty to some players not performing.
Need to reward form
Against England
BB 15
6 SF or SB if Retallick starts
Telea starts
Reece starts -
@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Regarding our defense.
We let in two tries:
- one a debatable PT after DP was obstructed by the ref
- one an intercept
I think it was our misfiring attack that kept them in it.
Not that I'm advocating for McLeod.
Also, that ball ingoal took a 90° leg break. For me no probable as Hogg was only ever going straight.
I have my doubts too. With the bounce of the ball I am njt sure if a try was likely. Don't know if the TMO watched the same replays as us, but they only showed the end on replay once at the beginning and only showed that angle again once the decision had been made.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Regarding our defense.
We let in two tries:
- one a debatable PT after DP was obstructed by the ref
- one an intercept
I think it was our misfiring attack that kept them in it.
Not that I'm advocating for McLeod.
Also, that ball ingoal took a 90° leg break. For me no probable as Hogg was only ever going straight.
I have my doubts too. With the bounce of the ball I am njt sure if a try was likely. Don't know if the TMO watched the same replays as us, but they only showed the end on replay once at the beginning and only showed that angle again once the decision had been made.
Not sure what the rule is but also looked like ALB genuinely thought Hogg had the ball and was trying to smash him bro. Didn't look like he was attempting to interfere other than complete a tackle in possession*.
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That pass from DH was like watching a car crash happen in slow motion. When he got the ball and started running to set up the player outside him I said to myself 'Don't fuck it, don't fuck it.'
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
When he got the ball and started running to set up the player outside him I said to myself 'Don't fuck it, don't fuck it.'
Coincidentally, that's why these days I avoid serious drinking in pubs and bars with pretty young girls around..luckily I don't know any trendy ones that show rugby..
That pass from DH was like watching a car crash happen in slow motion.
He appeared to have promise in his first few games at 12 too! Seems so long ago!
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good game! Scotland gave it shit, we tried to give it to them, but the finish was superb. What cost the scots was either they didn't try enough, or weren't good enough to take full toll through that middle 50-odd minutes where we just fell apart. They needed to do more than pressure us and wait for the inevitable mistake. Well, that, 14 very early points, and our 7 & 8.
In the end the bench came on, we wrestled back control, and finished all over them. That's pretty pleasing stuff to be honest.
Based purely on this game
The tight 5 were very good under a lot of pressure.
DP put in the best game from an AB7 in years and was the best player on the park
Closely followed by A Savea, who is having quite the tour.It gets ugly after that
A Ioane sucked. Bench player at best, and even then. He's had chance after chance and never grabs it. May just not be a test player.
Christie was busy but so inaccurate.
BBarrett is a fucking shit 10, and has been for a long time. That was a terrible performance. I actually yelled out loud when we hadn't had the ball for ages, but he kept kicking it away with attempted miracles every phase. Build some pressure you fucking dipshit!!! If he has to start at 10 we are fucked.
David havili fucking sucked. His two first touches were a crossfield kick that went backwards, and an intercept. Did nothing from there
ALB fucking sucked. Well, until DH went off, and he moved to 12, where he suddenly remembered how to run straight and make an impact.
Telea did his ongoing chances no harm, especially because
Clarke sucked. Yes he had shit thrown his way, or kicked his way, but there are so many lapses during a game. He's rocks and diamonds.
JBarrett sucked. He's actually a very average fullback. And for all the chat of his "massive boot" we lost every kicking duel we entered last night.Discipline was appalling. The one that really fucked me off was the scrum penalty right on half time. Everyone knew that ball was never going in the scrum except our idiotic front row. Time and time again the let the Scots game them. We had a thousand penalties blown on us, and at no point did i think anything was harsh. Just dumb stuff from players who should know better.
But the bench can be happy with their work. The props definitely added something. The Cody Taylor redemption arc continues. TJ fucking Perenara came on and provided teh direction we had lacked, RIoane suddenly threatened, and provided the try. Oh yeah, and they even let poor old Stephen kick the ball out twice.
That last 20 was pretty fucking great to be honest, and they blew the Scots away. good win.
Now lets actually learn a lesson and jettison some of the dead wood.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
That pass from DH was like watching a car crash happen in slow motion. When he got the ball and started running to set up the player outside him I said to myself 'Don't fuck it, don't fuck it.'
he's so friggen slow on his feet that, instead of drawing two and putting BB away, he just allowed the winger to perfectly position himself.
And people think this guy is a fullback utility option. Fuck me dead. As ordinary a 20+ test AB as i can remember seeing.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
That pass from DH was like watching a car crash happen in slow motion. When he got the ball and started running to set up the player outside him I said to myself 'Don't fuck it, don't fuck it.'
he's so friggen slow on his feet that, instead of drawing two and putting BB away, he just allowed the winger to perfectly position himself.
And people think this guy is a fullback utility option. Fuck me dead. As ordinary a 20+ test AB as i can remember seeing.
Before he got yanked, he actually started to play alright. He ran straight and direct and got some forward moment. That's all he needed in that moment was to put his foot down, accelerate put his outside into space or at worst,drop his shoulder into the defender. He did neither and after 20 mins, after Scotland did nothing and were getting smashed, were right in it.
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Don't get all the abusive comments on the thread I just read including repeated outright nasty ones on individuals. Top ten nations are not that far apart in capability. We correctly tested some of our backup combos and will hopefully have our top 23 primed v England in 6 days. And we won by 8 points.
I think Scotland reacted well to our fierce start and then played the ref to slow things down and frustrate the AB's. He bought into the pull back thing at scrums and allowed some cynical turnovers for players not supporting their weight. Playing the ref turned the match around and we did not compete for a long period. Far too many missed or ineffective tackles too. (and praise is posted for a turnover by the player who missed the tackle prior to it..)
When Tjp and front row came on they turned around that flow by giving the ref more reason to support us. Was good to see the team get the bit between their teeth and gel at long last.
Card for ALB was deserved but I thought he did the right thing in timing a tackle attempt to hit the instant he thought Hogg would regather to get the ball down before the dead ball line. Sadly for him Hogg didn't get the bounce.
Interesting to see no mention of AB's current winning streak or rise in the World rankings. Very patchy performance overall but great debut by Telea and some real tactical impact from the bench.
@ARHS said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Don't get all the abusive comments on the thread I just read including repeated outright nasty ones on individuals. Top ten nations are not that far apart in capability. We correctly tested some of our backup combos and will hopefully have our top 23 primed v England in 6 days. And we won by 8 points.
I think Scotland reacted well to our fierce start and then played the ref to slow things down and frustrate the AB's. He bought into the pull back thing at scrums and allowed some cynical turnovers for players not supporting their weight. Playing the ref turned the match around and we did not compete for a long period. Far too many missed or ineffective tackles too. (and praise is posted for a turnover by the player who missed the tackle prior to it..)
When Tjp and front row came on they turned around that flow by giving the ref more reason to support us. Was good to see the team get the bit between their teeth and gel at long last.
Card for ALB was deserved but I thought he did the right thing in timing a tackle attempt to hit the instant he thought Hogg would regather to get the ball down before the dead ball line. Sadly for him Hogg didn't get the bounce.
Interesting to see no mention of AB's current winning streak or rise in the World rankings. Very patchy performance overall but great debut by Telea and some real tactical impact from the bench.
Going into 2015 RWC, what gave you confidence? Constant changing of a side yet to consistently play together or a unit very familiar to each other?
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Don't get all the abusive comments on the thread I just read including repeated outright nasty ones on individuals. Top ten nations are not that far apart in capability. We correctly tested some of our backup combos and will hopefully have our top 23 primed v England in 6 days. And we won by 8 points.
I think Scotland reacted well to our fierce start and then played the ref to slow things down and frustrate the AB's. He bought into the pull back thing at scrums and allowed some cynical turnovers for players not supporting their weight. Playing the ref turned the match around and we did not compete for a long period. Far too many missed or ineffective tackles too. (and praise is posted for a turnover by the player who missed the tackle prior to it..)
When Tjp and front row came on they turned around that flow by giving the ref more reason to support us. Was good to see the team get the bit between their teeth and gel at long last.
Card for ALB was deserved but I thought he did the right thing in timing a tackle attempt to hit the instant he thought Hogg would regather to get the ball down before the dead ball line. Sadly for him Hogg didn't get the bounce.
Interesting to see no mention of AB's current winning streak or rise in the World rankings. Very patchy performance overall but great debut by Telea and some real tactical impact from the bench.
@ARHS said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Don't get all the abusive comments on the thread I just read including repeated outright nasty ones on individuals. Top ten nations are not that far apart in capability. We correctly tested some of our backup combos and will hopefully have our top 23 primed v England in 6 days. And we won by 8 points.
I think Scotland reacted well to our fierce start and then played the ref to slow things down and frustrate the AB's. He bought into the pull back thing at scrums and allowed some cynical turnovers for players not supporting their weight. Playing the ref turned the match around and we did not compete for a long period. Far too many missed or ineffective tackles too. (and praise is posted for a turnover by the player who missed the tackle prior to it..)
When Tjp and front row came on they turned around that flow by giving the ref more reason to support us. Was good to see the team get the bit between their teeth and gel at long last.
Card for ALB was deserved but I thought he did the right thing in timing a tackle attempt to hit the instant he thought Hogg would regather to get the ball down before the dead ball line. Sadly for him Hogg didn't get the bounce.
Interesting to see no mention of AB's current winning streak or rise in the World rankings. Very patchy performance overall but great debut by Telea and some real tactical impact from the bench.
Tbf Mate, when half of that winning streak is Japan, Wales and Scotland, it's not exactly going to be the talk of the town around here.
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@ARHS said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Don't get all the abusive comments on the thread I just read including repeated outright nasty ones on individuals. Top ten nations are not that far apart in capability. We correctly tested some of our backup combos and will hopefully have our top 23 primed v England in 6 days. And we won by 8 points.
I think Scotland reacted well to our fierce start and then played the ref to slow things down and frustrate the AB's. He bought into the pull back thing at scrums and allowed some cynical turnovers for players not supporting their weight. Playing the ref turned the match around and we did not compete for a long period. Far too many missed or ineffective tackles too. (and praise is posted for a turnover by the player who missed the tackle prior to it..)
When Tjp and front row came on they turned around that flow by giving the ref more reason to support us. Was good to see the team get the bit between their teeth and gel at long last.
Card for ALB was deserved but I thought he did the right thing in timing a tackle attempt to hit the instant he thought Hogg would regather to get the ball down before the dead ball line. Sadly for him Hogg didn't get the bounce.
Interesting to see no mention of AB's current winning streak or rise in the World rankings. Very patchy performance overall but great debut by Telea and some real tactical impact from the bench.
Tbf Mate, when half of that winning streak is Japan, Wales and Scotland, it's not exactly going to be the talk of the town around here.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Tbf Mate, when half of that winning streak is Japan, Wales and Scotland, it's not exactly going to be the talk of the town around here.
Two of those teams are playing pretty darn well though.
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Haven't read the thread. Just a few of my 2 cents:
Telea didn't look like he was on debut. He looked right at home in black. Should start again next week, with Reece on the other wing.
DP and Ardie very good; I really like that combo. Akira started well, faded badly. Frizell showed why he should start. He's the better 6. Hoping for a Blackadder comeback next year. His versatility, workrate and energy may be exactly what we need.
Locks were solid. Scott Barrett is a starting lock to me, although I can see him playing at 6 next year, as well.
Reserve frontrow went better than starting frontrow, although Sami wasn't bad. Taylor just had major impact and was the catalyst of our comeback. I'm glad he has returned to form.ALB's card was deserved but they should have gone back to when the ref obstructed Paps and not awarded the pt.
Havili's intercept pass was awful, but I think the tackling after that was terrible as well. That try should not have been scored.
Also, Havili went down after about 20 minutes, got about half a km of bandage around his ankle/foot and it clearly affected him. Why was he not pulled sooner? Rieko was great when he came on. ALB looked very rusty.
Jordie was good at 15, although a bit more quiet than usual.The most problematic players to me were 9, 10 and 11. Christie is slower than a snail; he made TJP look good when he came on. In fairness to TJP, he brought great energy. I still prefer Weber though.
BB sigh, he is not a 10. Plain and simple. His kicking game only seems to get worse with every game he plays. Really makes me wonder why Perofeta only got one minute. I'd like to see him get some time at 10. I wonder what the coaches see at training; there must be a reason why Perofeta gets so little game time?
Clarke, it just doesn't click. He's had so many chances, starting (about) every game. Having seen Telea today, I'd like to see him and Reece on the wings. Clarke needs tackle classes, and whatever is necessary to keep him from falling over. He was good under the high ball, but that's about it. -
The bottom line is at the start of the year we didn't have a forward pack. Now we do. And JB to 12.
We have a chance at the WC. -
Haven't read the thread. Just a few of my 2 cents:
Telea didn't look like he was on debut. He looked right at home in black. Should start again next week, with Reece on the other wing.
DP and Ardie very good; I really like that combo. Akira started well, faded badly. Frizell showed why he should start. He's the better 6. Hoping for a Blackadder comeback next year. His versatility, workrate and energy may be exactly what we need.
Locks were solid. Scott Barrett is a starting lock to me, although I can see him playing at 6 next year, as well.
Reserve frontrow went better than starting frontrow, although Sami wasn't bad. Taylor just had major impact and was the catalyst of our comeback. I'm glad he has returned to form.ALB's card was deserved but they should have gone back to when the ref obstructed Paps and not awarded the pt.
Havili's intercept pass was awful, but I think the tackling after that was terrible as well. That try should not have been scored.
Also, Havili went down after about 20 minutes, got about half a km of bandage around his ankle/foot and it clearly affected him. Why was he not pulled sooner? Rieko was great when he came on. ALB looked very rusty.
Jordie was good at 15, although a bit more quiet than usual.The most problematic players to me were 9, 10 and 11. Christie is slower than a snail; he made TJP look good when he came on. In fairness to TJP, he brought great energy. I still prefer Weber though.
BB sigh, he is not a 10. Plain and simple. His kicking game only seems to get worse with every game he plays. Really makes me wonder why Perofeta only got one minute. I'd like to see him get some time at 10. I wonder what the coaches see at training; there must be a reason why Perofeta gets so little game time?
Clarke, it just doesn't click. He's had so many chances, starting (about) every game. Having seen Telea today, I'd like to see him and Reece on the wings. Clarke needs tackle classes, and whatever is necessary to keep him from falling over. He was good under the high ball, but that's about it.@Stargazer said in All Blacks Vs England:
Scott Barrett is a starting lock to me, although I can see him playing at 6 next year, as well
this is the main selection conundrum. I personally love the 3 lock punch, and i personally believe we sell SB a little short at 6.
But this super direct stuff we are playing at the moment does make SB at 6 a decent option. I still think he is a little slow, and Frizzel's foot speed makes more sense, but hey, if we are just going to try and bash teams senseless lets go as big as we can.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Tbf Mate, when half of that winning streak is Japan, Wales and Scotland, it's not exactly going to be the talk of the town around here.
Two of those teams are playing pretty darn well though.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Tbf Mate, when half of that winning streak is Japan, Wales and Scotland, it's not exactly going to be the talk of the town around here.
Two of those teams are playing pretty darn well though.
Regardless, a 6 game winning streak involving those teams is unlikely to give any AB supporter much of a horn. Particularly after the horrors that preceded it.
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Watched a delayed viewing. NZ were a bit lucky
Based on this game
TJ was much better than Christie. I would prefer him as one of the backups. We are lucky to still have Smith.
B Barrett best position now is FB. Hope he mostly plays there in super rugby so some other options (inc Perofeta and Sullivan) get game time at first
J Barrett's best position is 2nd 5. But he was still good enough at FB
DH was poor. ALB was poor to start but improved as the game went on
Telea was good. He will never be a great AB but is a safe option
Clarke. I like one power winger but maybe NZ just don't have one of AB std at present. Telea and Reece as our 2 winger is a bit ordinary. -
Credit to Foster for bringing back Perenara into the group.
He could have easily stuck with Weber.
It paid off.
Telea hadn't played in 5 weeks but no signs of rust which was pleasing.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Telea hadn't played in 5 weeks but no signs of rust which was pleasing.
Looked assertive with ball in hand. Didn’t drift and went forward. According to one set of stats he and Ardie topped the carry count.
Only concern was falling off tackles. Some of the tackling stats aren’t great reading.
Jordie - 3 made / 4 missed
Talea - 1 made / 3 missed
Clarke - 2 made / 3 missedALB - 5 made / 1 missed
Havili - 11 made / 2 missedBeaudie - 5 made / 0 missed
Christie - 5 made / 0 missedArdie - 9 made / 1 missed
Dalton - 13 made / 4 missed
Akira - 4 made / 3 missedScooter - 8 made / 1 missed
Whitelock - 11 made / 1 missedNepo - 7 made / 0 missed
EDG - 4 made / 3 missed
Sami - 9 made / 2 missed -
26 penalties in the match is high (13 each), which did contribute to a stop start match.
28 lineouts too is quite high. ABs only lost the one which I think was the short throw by Sami that Scotland picked off.
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Reece Telea and Jordan at FB would be handy. BB off the bench.
One of Fosters faults over the last 3 years has been blind loyalty to some players not performing.
Need to reward form
Against England
BB 15
6 SF or SB if Retallick starts
Telea starts
Reece starts@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Reece Telea and Jordan at FB would be handy. BB off the bench.
One of Fosters faults over the last 3 years has been blind loyalty to some players not performing.
Need to reward form
Against England
BB 15
6 SF or SB if Retallick starts
Telea starts
Reece startsBeaudy doesn’t deserve to play fullback either.
Doesn’t score anymore, doesn’t have a long punt.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@MajorRage Agree re forwards but our set piece lost us quite a bit of territory and possession today which needs to be improved.
Against a fired up decent Scotland pack, I think they did ok.
Scotland at home isn't what it used to be. It's a real challenge now.
@MajorRage said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Scotland at home isn't what it used to be. It's a real challenge now.
Give the All Blacks a Challenge
Argentina
England
France
Ireland
Japan
Scotland
South AfricaDon't Give the All Blacks a Challenge
Australia
Wales
Yemen -
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Yeah this chopping and changing is such a great idea. Fucking change my mind.
Ma'a Nonu played something like 70 tests at 12 and 62 of those were with Conrad Smith. Jordie B has had 2 and looks a million times better than that headless chook Havili. We're 10 tests away from a QF but yeah, keep changing the fucking team.
Since 2015 we've been looking for centers. Hansen fucked the team around all the way up to the SF in 2019. Foster has done the same. Finally find a potential candidate and he won't be played 2 tests in succession.
For all the doom and gloom in this test, the Jocks are gifted a PT (DP was blocked from making a tackle and the ball ingoal makes a huge dogleg to the left, not probable in my book but hey) and Mr Indecisive gift wraps and pass right into the hands of the Jocks.
And what happens if we put all our eggs in the Jordie basket, he gets injured and we don't have back-ups with reasonable experience.?
You can say that about any number of players from every single team in the world. That's just the nature of the beast. This obsession NZ has with trying to have 2 players in every position with loads of test experience is absurd and is really hurting us as our top team rarely gets consecutive games together. We are just shooting ourselves in the foot with this while other teams build combinations.
I have no idea how Nonu and Smith started so many games together, surely, they should have rested them most of the time so their backups could get time in the position in case one got injured. Also madness that the GOAT and DC started so often, very bad coaching if you ask me.
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I have no idea how Nonu and Smith started so many games together, surely, they should have rested them most of the time so their backups could get time in the position in case one got injured. Also madness that the GOAT and DC started so often, very bad coaching if you ask me.
Here’s a couple of stats that may come as a surprise:
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Nonu started at 2nd 5 with nine different centres.
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Conrad started at centre with ten different 2nd 5s.
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Between 2005 and 2015 there were 45 tests that neither of them featured in the starting midfield.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I have no idea how Nonu and Smith started so many games together, surely, they should have rested them most of the time so their backups could get time in the position in case one got injured. Also madness that the GOAT and DC started so often, very bad coaching if you ask me.
Here’s a couple of stats that may come as a surprise:
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Nonu started at 2nd 5 with nine different centres.
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Conrad started at centre with ten different 2nd 5s.
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Between 2005 and 2015 there were 45 tests that neither of them featured in the starting midfield.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
I have no idea how Nonu and Smith started so many games together, surely, they should have rested them most of the time so their backups could get time in the position in case one got injured. Also madness that the GOAT and DC started so often, very bad coaching if you ask me.
Here’s a couple of stats that may come as a surprise:
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Nonu started at 2nd 5 with nine different centres.
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Conrad started at centre with ten different 2nd 5s.
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Between 2005 and 2015 there were 45 tests that neither of them featured in the starting midfield.
nerd
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