Black Caps v England
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@MN5 I think Matt Henry has got better - last three years he averages 30 c.f. his career average of 40. He also hasn't played many tests vs bunnies and probably often hasn't had his preferred role (I haven't checked that). I don't mind him at all.
I think the balance is a bit off for this test. We probably have a bit too much batting and a bit too little bowling. But, if we're up against Bazball cricket, where England is maybe planning to bat only 60 overs in each innings, maybe three specialist bowlers and two part-timers is enough.
Seems a bit like they're carrying Henry Nicholls at the expense of a specialist bowler - which might have been Ish Sodhi.
I like seeing Kane listed at 4!!!
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@MN5 I think Matt Henry has got better - last three years he averages 30 c.f. his career average of 40. He also hasn't played many tests vs bunnies and probably often hasn't had his preferred role (I haven't checked that). I don't mind him at all.
I think the balance is a bit off for this test. We probably have a bit too much batting and a bit too little bowling. But, if we're up against Bazball cricket, where England is maybe planning to bat only 60 overs in each innings, maybe three specialist bowlers and two part-timers is enough.
Seems a bit like they're carrying Henry Nicholls at the expense of a specialist bowler - which might have been Ish Sodhi.
I like seeing Kane listed at 4!!!
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
@MN5 I think Matt Henry has got better - last three years he averages 30 c.f. his career average of 40. He also hasn't played many tests vs bunnies and probably often hasn't had his preferred role (I haven't checked that). I don't mind him at all.
I think the balance is a bit off for this test. We probably have a bit too much batting and a bit too little bowling. But, if we're up against Bazball cricket, where England is maybe planning to bat only 60 overs in each innings, maybe three specialist bowlers and two part-timers is enough.
Seems a bit like they're carrying Henry Nicholls at the expense of a specialist bowler - which might have been Ish Sodhi.
I like seeing Kane listed at 4!!!
I’m not sure I do. I’m so used to Rossco being there and KW at 3. Part of me thinks it should be one of the newer guys there.
Who opens with Latham ? Wouldn’t be surprised at either Young or Conway I guess.
Then again the 3/4 thing might be much of a muchness, all the true legendary batsman of years gone by and the best of today will either be 3/4.
I get your point about Henry. Better than his woeful stats suggest
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No mention of Nicholls in this article though, so he's not a massively lucky cnut.
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
No mention of Nicholls in this article though, so he's not a massively lucky cnut.
Remember reading this at the time. Think it only focused on drops and missed stumpings.
I think it was just after a couple of Nicholl's innings that included teams opting not to review when he'd edged or been 'out' LBW. Or they'd run out of reviews. Plus a drop or two.There was a home season when he was very lucky, 2 season ago.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
I like seeing Kane listed at 4!!!
I hate seeing Kane listed at 4.
I'll live in hope that the cricinfo version is correct, as it has him listed at 3.
@Rapido said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
I like seeing Kane listed at 4!!!
I hate seeing Kane listed at 4.
I'll live in hope that the cricinfo version is correct, as it has him listed at 3.
I like having our best batsman at 4 - giving him an extra layer of protection from the new ball in case of an early wicket.
When we had Rossco at 4, I didn't mind Kane at 3 - but, we have Latham, Conway and Young all used to batting in the top 3 at the top and I would definitely use them there to help mitigate the new ball risk to Kane.
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@Rapido said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
I like seeing Kane listed at 4!!!
I hate seeing Kane listed at 4.
I'll live in hope that the cricinfo version is correct, as it has him listed at 3.
I like having our best batsman at 4 - giving him an extra layer of protection from the new ball in case of an early wicket.
When we had Rossco at 4, I didn't mind Kane at 3 - but, we have Latham, Conway and Young all used to batting in the top 3 at the top and I would definitely use them there to help mitigate the new ball risk to Kane.
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
I like seeing Kane listed at 4!!!
I hate seeing Kane listed at 4.
I'll live in hope that the cricinfo version is correct, as it has him listed at 3.
I like having our best batsman at 4 - giving him an extra layer of protection from the new ball in case of an early wicket.
When we had Rossco at 4, I didn't mind Kane at 3 - but, we have Latham, Conway and Young all used to batting in the top 3 at the top and I would definitely use them there to help mitigate the new ball risk to Kane.
Excellent points.
I just had a quick glance at cricinfo and lots of the greats batted between three and four seemingly equally ( Lara, Hammond, Bradman )…..others were predominantly at three ( Ponting, Dravid ) and Tendulkar was pretty much always four.
I have no idea what this is trying to prove……so yeah if KW bats four it’s fine with me.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
I like seeing Kane listed at 4!!!
I hate seeing Kane listed at 4.
I'll live in hope that the cricinfo version is correct, as it has him listed at 3.
I like having our best batsman at 4 - giving him an extra layer of protection from the new ball in case of an early wicket.
When we had Rossco at 4, I didn't mind Kane at 3 - but, we have Latham, Conway and Young all used to batting in the top 3 at the top and I would definitely use them there to help mitigate the new ball risk to Kane.
Excellent points.
I just had a quick glance at cricinfo and lots of the greats batted between three and four seemingly equally ( Lara, Hammond, Bradman )…..others were predominantly at three ( Ponting, Dravid ) and Tendulkar was pretty much always four.
I have no idea what this is trying to prove……so yeah if KW bats four it’s fine with me.
@MN5 I guess the counter-argument is that Kane is our most technically proficient batsman so he's best equipped to survive the new ball at 3 and can shelter those behind.
I like having my best batsman protected though.
My ideal career progression for a world-class middle order batsman is probably something like:
6 - learning to play test cricket
3 - honing technical proficiency
4 - best batsman in the team
5 - elder statesmanIf you could cycle a series of batsmen broadly through this progression I think it works well.
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this is some start to a career for Brook
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@Rapido said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
I like seeing Kane listed at 4!!!
I hate seeing Kane listed at 4.
I'll live in hope that the cricinfo version is correct, as it has him listed at 3.
I like having our best batsman at 4 - giving him an extra layer of protection from the new ball in case of an early wicket.
When we had Rossco at 4, I didn't mind Kane at 3 - but, we have Latham, Conway and Young all used to batting in the top 3 at the top and I would definitely use them there to help mitigate the new ball risk to Kane.
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
I like seeing Kane listed at 4!!!
I hate seeing Kane listed at 4.
I'll live in hope that the cricinfo version is correct, as it has him listed at 3.
I like having our best batsman at 4 - giving him an extra layer of protection from the new ball in case of an early wicket.
When we had Rossco at 4, I didn't mind Kane at 3 - but, we have Latham, Conway and Young all used to batting in the top 3 at the top and I would definitely use them there to help mitigate the new ball risk to Kane.
My take. I don't see Kane as having a technique that needs shielding. Unlike Kohli and Smith whipping straight/offish stuff to leg, or Root not getting far forward. Although, tbh, all of those guys are/were more than capable of batting 3 at the peak of their powers. But I'd have doubts as they age (especially Kohli and Smith's techniques).
Secondly. I also don't see Kane as having the higher gears, or looseness, that benfits from batting lower.
With his dodgy elbow, even more so I doubt we see him becoming a quicker-scoring 4, more likely he becomes a dour(er) 3.
Thirdly, Despite Young opening for Blackcps, this is never, not a single occasion, something he has done for CD. Only ever for NZA and Blackcaps. Although he bats 3 for CD for ages now, this is as a 'graduated strokemaking' 4 who has tightened his game and taken on more responsibility. I'd see him as quite an ideal 4 at international level, if he can translate it to test level.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
I like seeing Kane listed at 4!!!
I hate seeing Kane listed at 4.
I'll live in hope that the cricinfo version is correct, as it has him listed at 3.
I like having our best batsman at 4 - giving him an extra layer of protection from the new ball in case of an early wicket.
When we had Rossco at 4, I didn't mind Kane at 3 - but, we have Latham, Conway and Young all used to batting in the top 3 at the top and I would definitely use them there to help mitigate the new ball risk to Kane.
My take. I don't see Kane as having a technique that needs shielding. Unlike Kohli and Smith whipping straight/offish stuff to leg, or Root not getting far forward. Although, tbh, all of those guys are/were more than capable of batting 3 at the peak of their powers. But I'd have doubts as they age (especially Kohli and Smith's techniques).
Secondly. I also don't see Kane as having the higher gears, or looseness, that benfits from batting lower.
With his dodgy elbow, even more so I doubt we see him becoming a quicker-scoring 4, more likely he becomes a dour(er) 3.
Thirdly, Despite Young opening for Blackcps, this is never, not a single occasion, something he has done for CD. Only ever for NZA and Blackcaps. Although he bats 3 for CD for ages now, this is as a 'graduated strokemaking' 4 who has tightened his game and taken on more responsibility. I'd see him as quite an ideal 4 at international level, if he can translate it to test level.
@Rapido said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
@Rapido said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
I like seeing Kane listed at 4!!!
I hate seeing Kane listed at 4.
I'll live in hope that the cricinfo version is correct, as it has him listed at 3.
I like having our best batsman at 4 - giving him an extra layer of protection from the new ball in case of an early wicket.
When we had Rossco at 4, I didn't mind Kane at 3 - but, we have Latham, Conway and Young all used to batting in the top 3 at the top and I would definitely use them there to help mitigate the new ball risk to Kane.
My take. I don't see Kane as having a technique that needs shielding. Unlike Kohli and Smith whipping straight/offish stuff to leg, or Root not getting far forward. Although, tbh, all of those guys are/were more than capable of batting 3 at the peak of their powers. But I'd have doubts as they age (especially Kohli and Smith's techniques).
Secondly. I also don't see Kane as having the higher gears, or looseness, that benfits from batting lower.
With his dodgy elbow, even more so I doubt we see him becoming a quicker-scoring 4, more likely he becomes a dour(er) 3.
Thirdly, Despite Young opening for Blackcps, this is never, not a single occasion, something he has done for CD. Only ever for NZA and Blackcaps. Although he bats 3 for CD for ages now, this is as a 'graduated strokemaking' 4 who has tightened his game and taken on more responsibility. I'd see him as quite an ideal 4 at international level, if he can translate it to test level.
Looks likely especially given Nicholls recent form.
It’s probably too much to expect either of them to be the next Rossco though.
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21/3, now they look very very comfrotable. We are just not troubling them, they're pumping us all over the park.
Henry did bloody well against Brook, but we're leaking now. Two inside edges past teh stumps, and a good LBW shout, and that's about it (well, from what I've seen).
Well played England; we're struggling
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21/3, now they look very very comfrotable. We are just not troubling them, they're pumping us all over the park.
Henry did bloody well against Brook, but we're leaking now. Two inside edges past teh stumps, and a good LBW shout, and that's about it (well, from what I've seen).
Well played England; we're struggling
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Wow, just checked the score, they are getting absolutely thrashed again already.
Some of that doesn't surprise. E.g. they're a bit shit now anyway, but I also expected them to struggle when the ball got old. As mentioned about 3rd/4th bowler balance earlier in thread.
The signs on Wagner have been pretty clear for a while now. Not just the last dumpster fire match by him. This was a poor selection. It's clear they need a role player like Tickner so the group can bowl to an actual near-functional plan, Wagner isn't up to it anymore.
Not that I'm actually watching any of it .this is just some cricinfo live scoring based 'analysis' ... I couldn't bring myself to pull out the credit card and turn Spark back on when I saw the squad for the first test, Stead drifters. I'm very unenthused.
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@nzzp I'm only watching on Cricinfo - but, I had a bad feeling when Mitch came on at first change that this was a hook we were going to let them off.
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
@nzzp I'm only watching on Cricinfo - but, I had a bad feeling when Mitch came on at first change that this was a hook we were going to let them off.
To be fair to Daryl, he's got Wagner supplying the medium-fast half trackers to the buffet once again. 12 overs 0 - 81 thus far. Not that there are many knocking down the door with top performances to replace Wags.
Ish might have been pleased to sit this one out on the current run rate!
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Wow, just checked the score, they are getting absolutely thrashed again already.
Some of that doesn't surprise. E.g. they're a bit shit now anyway, but I also expected them to struggle when the ball got old. As mentioned about 3rd/4th bowler balance earlier in thread.
The signs on Wagner have been pretty clear for a while now. Not just the last dumpster fire match by him. This was a poor selection. It's clear they need a role player like Tickner so the group can bowl to an actual near-functional plan, Wagner isn't up to it anymore.
Not that I'm actually watching any of it .this is just some cricinfo live scoring based 'analysis' ... I couldn't bring myself to pull out the credit card and turn Spark back on when I saw the squad for the first test, Stead drifters. I'm very unenthused.
@Rapido said in Black Caps v England:
Wow, just checked the score, they are getting absolutely thrashed again already.
Some of that doesn't surprise. E.g. they're a bit shit now anyway, but I also expected them to struggle when the ball got old. As mentioned about 3rd/4th bowler balance earlier in thread.
The signs on Wagner have been pretty clear for a while now. Not just the last dumpster fire match by him. This was a poor selection. It's clear they need a role player like Tickner so the group can bowl to an actual near-functional plan, Wagner isn't up to it anymore.
Not that I'm actually watching any of it .this is just some cricinfo live scoring based 'analysis' ... I couldn't bring myself to pull out the credit card and turn Spark back on when I saw the squad for the first test, Stead drifters. I'm very unenthused.
Yeah, turns out you can’t just use a different email to get a free trial you actually have to provide a different credit card each time.
Crafty fluffybunnies.
Back on topic in case I get told off again, England are really putting the BCs to the sword at a rapid rate.
This nerdy looking new kid sure can bat
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@mariner4life He's done it at a strike rate of 99.62!!!
800 runs in 803 balls.
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@mariner4life said in Black Caps v England:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v England:
There it is - well done Brook!
retire immediately
Still got Andy to knock off!
https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricketers/andy-ganteaume-51874
