It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.
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One bonus as Razor mentioned is he can now sort out his assistants well in advance as he has the job. I would argue the assistants or coaching team is more important than just the head coach. So if Razor can hand pick the best assistants that can only benefit the team as a whole.
I also think Foster maybe happy to have this issue done and dusted so he can just concentrate on the RWC.
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Scott Hansen will be part of that Coaching team I would bet,
Ryan and Holland as well,
Betting McDonald will not feature but Tamiti Ellison may do he has been very very good as Defence coach for the Crusaders under Razor.I would pick Andrew Goodman to take over as Crusaders HC,with James Marshall and Dave Perrin to carry on.
They may need another Defence coach@Chris said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Scott Hansen will be part of that Coaching team I would bet,
Ryan and Holland as well,
Betting McDonald will not feature but Tamiti Ellison may do he has been very very good as Defence coach for the Crusaders under Razor.I would pick Andrew Goodman to take over as Crusaders HC,with James Marshall and Dave Perrin to carry on.
They may need another Defence coachHope not with Ellison. As keen to see what he can do as a head coach.
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@Chris said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Scott Hansen will be part of that Coaching team I would bet,
Ryan and Holland as well,
Betting McDonald will not feature but Tamiti Ellison may do he has been very very good as Defence coach for the Crusaders under Razor.I would pick Andrew Goodman to take over as Crusaders HC,with James Marshall and Dave Perrin to carry on.
They may need another Defence coachHope not with Ellison. As keen to see what he can do as a head coach.
@Winger said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Chris said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Scott Hansen will be part of that Coaching team I would bet,
Ryan and Holland as well,
Betting McDonald will not feature but Tamiti Ellison may do he has been very very good as Defence coach for the Crusaders under Razor.I would pick Andrew Goodman to take over as Crusaders HC,with James Marshall and Dave Perrin to carry on.
They may need another Defence coachHope not with Ellison. As keen to see what he can do as a head coach.
Just a guess on Ellison we will see.
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I just don't see the problem here. The current coach will end his contract when we lose at the QF of the RWC. A replacement will be required and that replacement has been named.
Actually I think the laws of retardation mean we might actually win it. But damn I've never been so can't give af about a RWC. Says alot about the last 3 years.
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@KiwiMurph said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Crucial said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
This is basically telling the players that they need to impress the next guy not listen to the current one.
Let’s say you are a Saders player and Foster tries to get you doing something that you know Razor doesn’t do and doesn’t agree with……I don't buy this at all.
In practical terms I just don't see this happening at all.
So in your example the said player is going to risk being part of the 2023 rwc squad to impress Razor for the 2024 squad - which isn't picked until at the end of the 2024 Super season?
That’s not what I am saying. Influence can be way more subtle. We talk about the top two inches and how a clear head is the key to good performances.
By going early NZR have basically given the current coach a vote of no confidence. If a player has any questions about the direction being given by Foster that is now cemented.
You don’t get good performance that way.
The team leaders will have their work cut out keeping everyone on the same page.@Crucial said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@KiwiMurph said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Crucial said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
This is basically telling the players that they need to impress the next guy not listen to the current one.
Let’s say you are a Saders player and Foster tries to get you doing something that you know Razor doesn’t do and doesn’t agree with……I don't buy this at all.
In practical terms I just don't see this happening at all.
So in your example the said player is going to risk being part of the 2023 rwc squad to impress Razor for the 2024 squad - which isn't picked until at the end of the 2024 Super season?
That’s not what I am saying. Influence can be way more subtle. We talk about the top two inches and how a clear head is the key to good performances.
By going early NZR have basically given the current coach a vote of no confidence. If a player has any questions about the direction being given by Foster that is now cemented.
You don’t get good performance that way.
The team leaders will have their work cut out keeping everyone on the same page.Bollocks.
They will all want to win the World Cup.
If they lack motivation, there's something wrong with them. -
@Crucial said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
We’re going over old ground now. Fosters best/only chance is based on completion of the job he was employed to do. That option was taken away.
Thing is - Fozzie's not employed just to win the RWC.
He should have to stand on his record at the point NZR decide to recruit - not be given the chance to pull a rabbit out of a hat at the end (a chance no other potential candidate gets).
If he'd simply won more games he would have had a chance in this process. If he was sitting there with Sir Grahams record in early-2007 he'd likely have been a shoe-in.
I think it's a good thing that the future has been clarified. And on the other side of the coin, Fozzie gets his shot at winning a RWC and I'm fully behind him. Give him what he needs to win. If he's got assistants who are going to bail (as one article I saw today suggested) then maybe they're not the guys we need anyway. It should be a privilege to be on the AB coaching staff.
For what it's worth, I think (and hope) we'll get Ryan, Leon and Holland as Razor's lead assistants. I wouldn't mind seeing Smithy or Hansen in a mentoring role. I'm not convinced we need other old guys in the core team - maybe a few losses will change my tune.
@Chris-B said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
For what it's worth, I think (and hope) we'll get Ryan, Leon and Holland as Razor's lead assistants. I wouldn't mind seeing Smithy or Hansen in a mentoring role. I'm not convinced we need other old guys in the core team - maybe a few losses will change my tune.
What are Leon MacDonald's particular areas of expertise that he would bring to the ABs?
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@Chris-B said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
For what it's worth, I think (and hope) we'll get Ryan, Leon and Holland as Razor's lead assistants. I wouldn't mind seeing Smithy or Hansen in a mentoring role. I'm not convinced we need other old guys in the core team - maybe a few losses will change my tune.
What are Leon MacDonald's particular areas of expertise that he would bring to the ABs?
@Frank said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Chris-B said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
For what it's worth, I think (and hope) we'll get Ryan, Leon and Holland as Razor's lead assistants. I wouldn't mind seeing Smithy or Hansen in a mentoring role. I'm not convinced we need other old guys in the core team - maybe a few losses will change my tune.
What are Leon MacDonald's particular areas of expertise that he would bring to the ABs?
Yeah Leon I find a bit underwhelming with the talent he has available - but maybe if he's focussing on one area as an assistant, he might be pretty good. Hard to say though...
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What constitutes success for the new regime? Keep Bledisloe. Win all home series, ranking?
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@Chris-B said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Crucial said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
We’re going over old ground now. Fosters best/only chance is based on completion of the job he was employed to do. That option was taken away.
Thing is - Fozzie's not employed just to win the RWC.
He should have to stand on his record at the point NZR decide to recruit - not be given the chance to pull a rabbit out of a hat at the end (a chance no other potential candidate gets).
If he'd simply won more games he would have had a chance in this process. If he was sitting there with Sir Grahams record in early-2007 he'd likely have been a shoe-in.
I think it's a good thing that the future has been clarified. And on the other side of the coin, Fozzie gets his shot at winning a RWC and I'm fully behind him. Give him what he needs to win. If he's got assistants who are going to bail (as one article I saw today suggested) then maybe they're not the guys we need anyway. It should be a privilege to be on the AB coaching staff.
For what it's worth, I think (and hope) we'll get Ryan, Leon and Holland as Razor's lead assistants. I wouldn't mind seeing Smithy or Hansen in a mentoring role. I'm not convinced we need other old guys in the core team - maybe a few losses will change my tune.
I think that's the most interesting part about Razor for me. He's most certainly employed at Super level to win the tournament, and losses to the likes of Drua are pretty quickly swept aside so long as his team is there at the business end and get it done. Test level, as you point out, is a very different kettle of fish. If Fozzie gets the job done at the RWC, does that mean previous losses, e.g. to Argentina, get swept aside because he got it done when it mattered? The answer is absolutely not, the ABs have a proud legacy and losses like that cannot be wiped from the slate the same way they can be at the lower levels. I'm interested to see how Razor responds to an environment where you just have to win every single game, and if you don't the braying for blood from the public gets louder and louder. I think NZR have taken a punt here, which I'm not opposed to at all as it's clear the ABs need a shake up, but 2024 is going to be very interesting.
@No-Quarter said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
I'm interested to see how Razor responds to an environment where you just have to win every single game, and if you don't the braying for blood from the puclic gets louder and louder. I think NZR have taken a punt here, which I'm not opposed to at all as it's clear the ABs need a shake up, but 2024 is going to be very interesting.
We really don't know how he'll go at Test level, but need to give the bloke enough time to get his feet under the table before judging him.
Huge expectation has been built up around Robertson & hope the media bashing a la Foster doesn't start if he loses 2 or 3 games in a row or people start calling for his immediate sacking if he records NZ's first Test loss against, say, Scotland - but I'm not holding my breath.
Finally, NZR need to get their act together and deal with any coaching issues privately and professionally. No-one should be repeatedly hung out to dry the way Foster was.
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@mariner4life Would have been awkward if Fozzie had applied for the job. He had the good sense not to.
I reckon Mitch would have had a fair idea....
@Chris-B said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@mariner4life Would have been awkward if Fozzie had applied for the job. He had the good sense not to.
I reckon Mitch would have had a fair idea....
Foster intimated there had been meetings, whether he got clear feedback from that, I don't know.
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What constitutes success for the new regime? Keep Bledisloe. Win all home series, ranking?
@antipodean said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
What constitutes success for the new regime? Keep Bledisloe. Win all home series, ranking?
Direction mostly for me, but a lot of people will want to judge him purely on results and want KPI's set as they did with Foster. After his first season in charge, I think anything less than keeping the Bled, the RC & not losing at EP would cause concern for a lot of people.
Losing more than 1 game on the EOYT, being below 2 or 3 in the global rankings and losing twice to Argentina would show a distinct lack of progress for an awful lot of people and the media knives will probably be unsheathed if that happens
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@Chris-B said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Crucial said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
We’re going over old ground now. Fosters best/only chance is based on completion of the job he was employed to do. That option was taken away.
Thing is - Fozzie's not employed just to win the RWC.
He should have to stand on his record at the point NZR decide to recruit - not be given the chance to pull a rabbit out of a hat at the end (a chance no other potential candidate gets).
If he'd simply won more games he would have had a chance in this process. If he was sitting there with Sir Grahams record in early-2007 he'd likely have been a shoe-in.
I think it's a good thing that the future has been clarified. And on the other side of the coin, Fozzie gets his shot at winning a RWC and I'm fully behind him. Give him what he needs to win. If he's got assistants who are going to bail (as one article I saw today suggested) then maybe they're not the guys we need anyway. It should be a privilege to be on the AB coaching staff.
For what it's worth, I think (and hope) we'll get Ryan, Leon and Holland as Razor's lead assistants. I wouldn't mind seeing Smithy or Hansen in a mentoring role. I'm not convinced we need other old guys in the core team - maybe a few losses will change my tune.
I think that's the most interesting part about Razor for me. He's most certainly employed at Super level to win the tournament, and losses to the likes of Drua are pretty quickly swept aside so long as his team is there at the business end and get it done. Test level, as you point out, is a very different kettle of fish. If Fozzie gets the job done at the RWC, does that mean previous losses, e.g. to Argentina, get swept aside because he got it done when it mattered? The answer is absolutely not, the ABs have a proud legacy and losses like that cannot be wiped from the slate the same way they can be at the lower levels. I'm interested to see how Razor responds to an environment where you just have to win every single game, and if you don't the braying for blood from the public gets louder and louder. I think NZR have taken a punt here, which I'm not opposed to at all as it's clear the ABs need a shake up, but 2024 is going to be very interesting.
@No-Quarter I think if you look back over the last 30 years or so, the first year/set of tests for a new coach have always been an interesting period in terms of selection, results and fan reaction. I don’t expect next year will be too different.
Given the unprecedented speculation/attention around the future, I don’t think this timing is that surprising. It’s the nature of things in today’s age when organisations look for circuit breakers. Putting to side the poor handling of things on the last few months from an NZRU (comms, messaging, frantic behaviour), I think it’s a good decision, not so much because of who they’ve appointed but because there is certainty and when the test season starts there won’t be inane articles / questions in pressers speculating about “who, what and if”.
Not exactly the same scenario but the circuit breaker principle still applied - I remember the Bulls and Phil Jackson were copping it about the future after the Bulls first NBA finals win against the Jazz and that’s when they decided that it would be Phil’s last year and put all the speculation to bed.
Fozzie’s last dance
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With Razor as coach I suppose we’re in for a few close shaves.
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I’m happy. For no other reason than Razor is bloody infectious. He clearly cares, and he clearly resonates with his guys. He won’t make every one of us happy with his selections and his gameplan, but I don’t doubt for a second that he has the talent and drive to make this work.
I’m balls deep in the Razor camp
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I’m happy. For no other reason than Razor is bloody infectious. He clearly cares, and he clearly resonates with his guys. He won’t make every one of us happy with his selections and his gameplan, but I don’t doubt for a second that he has the talent and drive to make this work.
I’m balls deep in the Razor camp
@voodoo said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
I’m balls deep in the Razor camp
Imagery too horrible to contemplate...
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@antipodean said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
What constitutes success for the new regime? Keep Bledisloe. Win all home series, ranking?
Direction mostly for me, but a lot of people will want to judge him purely on results and want KPI's set as they did with Foster. After his first season in charge, I think anything less than keeping the Bled, the RC & not losing at EP would cause concern for a lot of people.
Losing more than 1 game on the EOYT, being below 2 or 3 in the global rankings and losing twice to Argentina would show a distinct lack of progress for an awful lot of people and the media knives will probably be unsheathed if that happens
@Victor-Meldrew For mine the Bledisloe needs to be in the display cabinet. A series win against England, with the Eden Park record intact.
I don't know what the EOYT holds, so will hold opinion there.
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@Victor-Meldrew For mine the Bledisloe needs to be in the display cabinet. A series win against England, with the Eden Park record intact.
I don't know what the EOYT holds, so will hold opinion there.
@antipodean said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Victor-Meldrew For mine the Bledisloe needs to be in the display cabinet. A series win against England, with the Eden Park record intact.
May not look too hard at the moment, but a close contest is really possible if Borthwick gets England moving.
I don't know what the EOYT holds, so will hold opinion there.
Yeah, it's pretty crazy to ignore the huge improvement in NH rugby we've seen in the last 3-4 years. That won't stop the criticism if he only matches Foster's record though - expectation and all that
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@voodoo said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
I’m balls deep in the Razor camp
Imagery too horrible to contemplate...
@Victor-Meldrew said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@voodoo said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
I’m balls deep in the Razor camp
Imagery too horrible to contemplate...
And yet, you can’t stop your mind from wandering
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@antipodean said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Victor-Meldrew For mine the Bledisloe needs to be in the display cabinet. A series win against England, with the Eden Park record intact.
May not look too hard at the moment, but a close contest is really possible if Borthwick gets England moving.
I don't know what the EOYT holds, so will hold opinion there.
Yeah, it's pretty crazy to ignore the huge improvement in NH rugby we've seen in the last 3-4 years. That won't stop the criticism if he only matches Foster's record though - expectation and all that
@Victor-Meldrew said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Yeah, it's pretty crazy to ignore the huge improvement in NH rugby we've seen in the last 3-4 years. That won't stop the criticism if he only matches Foster's record though - expectation and all that
It isn't the improvement of the opposition, that is a given I would have thought. It is the lack of innovation and improvement in the AB camp that has been the problem. If Razor attempts new things, and brings a fresh approach but has similar results as Foster, I honestly think he will be given some leeway. It is the stagnant nature of the current set up and the feeling of time wasted that grinds a lot of people I think.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Yeah, it's pretty crazy to ignore the huge improvement in NH rugby we've seen in the last 3-4 years. That won't stop the criticism if he only matches Foster's record though - expectation and all that
It isn't the improvement of the opposition, that is a given I would have thought. It is the lack of innovation and improvement in the AB camp that has been the problem. If Razor attempts new things, and brings a fresh approach but has similar results as Foster, I honestly think he will be given some leeway. It is the stagnant nature of the current set up and the feeling of time wasted that grinds a lot of people I think.
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Victor-Meldrew said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Yeah, it's pretty crazy to ignore the huge improvement in NH rugby we've seen in the last 3-4 years. That won't stop the criticism if he only matches Foster's record though - expectation and all that
It isn't the improvement of the opposition, that is a given I would have thought. It is the lack of innovation and improvement in the AB camp that has been the problem. If Razor attempts new things, and brings a fresh approach but has similar results as Foster, I honestly think he will be given some leeway. It is the stagnant nature of the current set up and the feeling of time wasted that grinds a lot of people I think.
I've already noticed a deliberate ferocity and directness in our forward play once Ryan joined the coaching team. What I feel we're missing is inventiveness in our backline attack (contrast with France in the 6N) and better defence.
