All Blacks 2024
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@booboo we need two locks and a blindside just to make a test team, none of which are apparent.
I think we need a new 7, and I don't know who that is either (I'm not sold on DP)
DMac isn't a failure, but he's fsr from proven, and we don't even know if the new coaches like him
Who plays FB?That's a lot of work.
Not to mention we're lacking quality backups in most areas.
Most of your post was paper depth, where yes those guys are names, but are they actually any good?@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Most of your post was paper depth, where yes those guys are names, but are they actually any good?
To me this is actually the exciting part.
I think there's a fair bit of talent that has yet to get a crack at test level.
Guys who have really shone at Super/ABs A/Maori and look poised for that next step
I'm thinking the likes of Ah Kuoi, Proctor, Zarn, Choat, Ruben Love, George Bell etc
That's not to mention there's quite a few players who have had a brief taste of test footy and are poised for much more in this cycle: Narawa, Stevenson, Grace, Mcleod, Finau, Lord etc
Gonna be fascinating to follow
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Most of your post was paper depth, where yes those guys are names, but are they actually any good?
To me this is actually the exciting part.
I think there's a fair bit of talent that has yet to get a crack at test level.
Guys who have really shone at Super/ABs A/Maori and look poised for that next step
I'm thinking the likes of Ah Kuoi, Proctor, Zarn, Choat, Ruben Love, George Bell etc
That's not to mention there's quite a few players who have had a brief taste of test footy and are poised for much more in this cycle: Narawa, Stevenson, Grace, Mcleod, Finau, Lord etc
Gonna be fascinating to follow
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Most of your post was paper depth, where yes those guys are names, but are they actually any good?
To me this is actually the exciting part.
I think there's a fair bit of talent that has yet to get a crack at test level.
Guys who have really shone at Super/ABs A/Maori and look poised for that next step
I'm thinking the likes of Ah Kuoi, Proctor, Zarn, Choat, Ruben Love, George Bell etc
That's not to mention there's quite a few players who have had a brief taste of test footy and are poised for much more in this cycle: Narawa, Stevenson, Grace, Mcleod, Finau, Lord etc
Gonna be fascinating to follow
Not sure I agree with all of those names, but I agree with your point.
The opportunity is to sort out those ready to succeed at test level and that's the role of the selection and coaching team.
We have enough talent to win 80% of our tests, and during 2024 and 2025 I imagine that the public will accept a few bad results if they can see that Razor is working on something (especially with the media having his cock so far down their throats).
Trying to lure back Sam Whitelock could have us playing a Dad's army team at lock for a couple of years, which is just kicking the ball down the road.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Disagree with what Robertson is wanting to do, but good on him for articulating his views and pushing the envelope. He clearly understands/thinks there's gaps in the talent pool which he's concerned about. NZ Rugby needs a shake-up.
But, like any other AB Head Coach, he has to make the best of what's available and will be judged on that basis.
Except he made his case earlier, got shut down by NZR and is doing it again.
If there's gaps it's his job to fix them, with the talent available. If Fozzie can get the ABs to within a point of winning the final with NZ based players surely Coaching Jesus will walk it.
How many overseas based players would have made the ABs when Fozzie was coach? Not many if any.
Now at least two world class players in Mounga and BBBR would walk into this team which is well short of world class talent. I can see why Razor is pushing for overseas based players, and as long as we limit it to only a couple of players, I'm ok with it. The alternative is having Tupou Vaa'i at lock.
@akan004 said in [All Blacks 2024 - lo down by NZR and is doing it again.
How many overseas based players would have made the ABs when Fozzie was coach? Not many if any.
At the risk of burning down the house a certain stocky 12?
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
... there are question marks. We're extraordinarily shallow at the very top in most positions... Most of the pack needs to be rebuilt. There is no established or experienced 10 options (short of reverting to a proven failure).
It could be fun. it could also be disappointing.
Going to take issue with you re lack of depth and rebuild. Only in some positions.
Re the pack:
We've got the incumbent 2 x 2 (LH TH) best props from last year. Young but good already.
More depth? Would be good but we've got our game day sorted (sans injury).
Hooker: got the guy who was just about our best the year before last. Hopefully gets back to that.
More depth? Aumua (apparently busting out the the bench press ... ), Bell, but yes, looking for more here.
Lock: I'll agree here because after Scooter it's development. Lord I expect to step up. Vaa'i ... as much as I'm a fan ... jury is out. A spot we do need to build on.
Loosies: we're covered pretty well. Ardie, Dalton, Finau, Blackadder, Cane (some thought he may be back), Grace, Jacobsen. Sotutu, Ioane. Flanders ETC. But i can't imagine there's not a whole heap of young fullas lining up.Loosies don't worry me.
Half back: Roidgard & Christie for a start. Then let's consider Roe, Ratima, Hotham, Fakatava. And TJP if we're worried about experience.
10: you suggesting DMac is a failure? I don't buy that. His runs at 10 have generally been good.
After him though? Interesting times. Perofeta, Bergus Furke, and ... ?
Midfield: Barrett, Ioane, ALB, Havili, Ennor ... then Aumua ... then ...
Wings we're OK for.
The question is what we do at fullback, (Jordan) and what depth do we have there? Am fanboi of Sullivan.
In my opinion we have the basis of an extremely good squad, with room. For some exciting noobs.
@booboo Agreed that the depth in certain areas is a concern. As you've pointed out, lock and five-eighth. Where are the tall, big munters who like to hurt people in New Zealand? After DMac there's an abyss, then hopes and dreams for the jersey that's supposed to direct the team. Not great when we can't rely on Nuggy anymore.
If Jordan and
SullivanStevenson are our best hopes at fullback then we've got genuine concerns too given they've both demonstrated glaring gaps in their games. Hopefully those are resolved this year (and quickly). If Zarn gets a constant run at fullback for the Blues it might help. -
@booboo Agreed that the depth in certain areas is a concern. As you've pointed out, lock and five-eighth. Where are the tall, big munters who like to hurt people in New Zealand? After DMac there's an abyss, then hopes and dreams for the jersey that's supposed to direct the team. Not great when we can't rely on Nuggy anymore.
If Jordan and
SullivanStevenson are our best hopes at fullback then we've got genuine concerns too given they've both demonstrated glaring gaps in their games. Hopefully those are resolved this year (and quickly). If Zarn gets a constant run at fullback for the Blues it might help.@antipodean all the tall guys wanna play basketball
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How about as the side to play England in July?
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E. Du Groot
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C. Taylor
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T. Lomax
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S. Barrett
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J. Lord
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E. Blackadder
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A. Savea
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C. Grace
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C. Roigard
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D Mac
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M.Telea
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J. Barrett
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R. Ioane
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W. Jordan
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R. Love
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S. Taukei'aho
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T. Williams
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F. Newell
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T. Vaa'i
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D. Papali'i
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M. Drummond
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B. Barrett
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A. Lienert-Brown
Obviously a few names will shift around after a season of Super Rugby.
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How about as the side to play England in July?
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E. Du Groot
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C. Taylor
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T. Lomax
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S. Barrett
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J. Lord
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E. Blackadder
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A. Savea
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C. Grace
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C. Roigard
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D Mac
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M.Telea
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J. Barrett
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R. Ioane
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W. Jordan
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R. Love
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S. Taukei'aho
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T. Williams
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F. Newell
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T. Vaa'i
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D. Papali'i
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M. Drummond
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B. Barrett
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A. Lienert-Brown
Obviously a few names will shift around after a season of Super Rugby.
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@sparky wtf has Grace done to deserve a start?
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@sparky wtf has Grace done to deserve a start?
I'll give him one thing, it is the Canterblacks. Plus a bit of Ruben Love CIM.
Jesus christ, if Drummy is the future, we are well fucked.
Extra points for all the loosies out of their best position, including two who can hardly string more than 3 games together in a row.
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We probably can't dominate up front atm but hold our own.
I can see Savea, Blackadder, Roigard, DMac and JB carrying a lot. High tempo, fun times. -
Might be off-key for the Fern, but are we really happy with Jordie as our 12 for the next 4 years?
Don’t get me wrong, he was essential to our side last year. But let’s be realistic, the guy is pretty limited at that spot. He runs straight and fairly hard, but he doesn’t spot weak shoulders or target gaps, and he hasn’t put a single outside back into space in his career in black. He kicks ok, but surely that’s not the bar ?
So 2 questions for the Fern collective:
- Can we do better at 12 (if so, who?); and
- If so, what do we do with Jordie?
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Might be off-key for the Fern, but are we really happy with Jordie as our 12 for the next 4 years?
Don’t get me wrong, he was essential to our side last year. But let’s be realistic, the guy is pretty limited at that spot. He runs straight and fairly hard, but he doesn’t spot weak shoulders or target gaps, and he hasn’t put a single outside back into space in his career in black. He kicks ok, but surely that’s not the bar ?
So 2 questions for the Fern collective:
- Can we do better at 12 (if so, who?); and
- If so, what do we do with Jordie?
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I'm happy w JB at 12.
Big step up from what we had 3-4 years ago -
I'm happy w JB at 12.
Big step up from what we had 3-4 years ago -
I'm happy w JB at 12.
Big step up from what we had 3-4 years ago@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'm happy w JB at 12.
Big step up from what we had 3-4 years agoI'm hoping he and the rest of the team will get clear instruction regarding their individual and collective responsibilities, and that we become more consistent and clinical as a result
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@BerniesCorner He needs to work on his goal kicking, but apart from that I thought he was generally excellent in RWC.
@sparky You can see he's a natural when it comes to goal kicking. May have been a little off lately but generally been good.
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Might be off-key for the Fern, but are we really happy with Jordie as our 12 for the next 4 years?
Don’t get me wrong, he was essential to our side last year. But let’s be realistic, the guy is pretty limited at that spot. He runs straight and fairly hard, but he doesn’t spot weak shoulders or target gaps, and he hasn’t put a single outside back into space in his career in black. He kicks ok, but surely that’s not the bar ?
So 2 questions for the Fern collective:
- Can we do better at 12 (if so, who?); and
- If so, what do we do with Jordie?
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How about as the side to play England in July?
-
E. Du Groot
-
C. Taylor
-
T. Lomax
-
S. Barrett
-
J. Lord
-
E. Blackadder
-
A. Savea
-
C. Grace
-
C. Roigard
-
D Mac
-
M.Telea
-
J. Barrett
-
R. Ioane
-
W. Jordan
-
R. Love
-
S. Taukei'aho
-
T. Williams
-
F. Newell
-
T. Vaa'i
-
D. Papali'i
-
M. Drummond
-
B. Barrett
-
A. Lienert-Brown
Obviously a few names will shift around after a season of Super Rugby.
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-
Might be off-key for the Fern, but are we really happy with Jordie as our 12 for the next 4 years?
Don’t get me wrong, he was essential to our side last year. But let’s be realistic, the guy is pretty limited at that spot. He runs straight and fairly hard, but he doesn’t spot weak shoulders or target gaps, and he hasn’t put a single outside back into space in his career in black. He kicks ok, but surely that’s not the bar ?
So 2 questions for the Fern collective:
- Can we do better at 12 (if so, who?); and
- If so, what do we do with Jordie?
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
So 2 questions for the Fern collective:
Can we do better at 12 (if so, who?); and If so, what do we do with Jordie?You know JB is a bit of a conundrum of a player. He's got a lot of skills needed to be successful in several spots in the backline (bar the wing position), but there always seems to be a deficit in some area. At 15, he's good under the high ball and possesses a good boot, but he lacks the speed and cutting edge ito running. At 12, he has the size needed to get over the gain line (not quite Nonu or SBW level) and defensively he's ok, but lacks creativity. He can kick, but we hardly see him using that skillset these days. I also think his combination with Rieko isn't great tbh. Both are learning or relearning midfield play at test level, which isn't ideal.
So, either stick with JB at 12 and change his midfield partner sooner rather than later OR replace the whole midfield combo. More drastic would be to shift JB to 13, but I can't really remember how well he went at 13 back in the day. I only mention 13, bc JB has shown better judgement than Rieko (but that is admittedly a very low bar).
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
paper depth
Fair in some cases.
But think the front line guys are pretty good. I'm happy with our XV and XXIII. Squaddiea and injury back up, I'll agree, not so much.
I agree, I think m4L is overstating the fact we need to rebuild the pack.
We are looking pretty good outside of Locks. We have got 1 recognised test lock so we really need to develop 3/4 (including Lord/Vai’i ) up to test standard. The good news there are some promising young locks in the country.
At this point in time, the front row looks the strongest area for us. When you add S Barrett to it, we have 4 of our tight 5 in good Nick. It’s a pretty good foundation to build a pack around. And that’s before we mention we have the world player of the year behind them.
