All Blacks 2024
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@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Bones Kriel is a specialist 13 that was pushed out to wing due to the meteoric rise of Am. It was also during a period when their first choice wingers weren't available iirc. In South Africa, moving a player from a more complex role like 13 to wing (seen as the "easier" position) on a temporary basis is not uncommon. A move in the opposite direction (from being a specialist wing to playing as a 13) is far more rare in the Republic though. I don't think I've seen them attempt the 15 to 13 switch at test level like the ABs have done three times.
I mean if you want to go down that route, JB is a specialist 12 and RI is a specialist 13. They just got moved to "easier" positions first....
@Bones They started in those positions, but spent significant time outside of midfield (JB bc he moved to a team where he played everywhere but 12 and Rieko bc his speed made wing seem logical). At times their current play makes that clear - they lack some of subtleties that come from consistent years in midfield.
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@antipodean Of course. I just don't want Holland to be too conservative in his selections when uncapped midfielders do impress at super level.
@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@antipodean Of course. I just don't want Holland to be too conservative in his selections when uncapped midfielders do impress at super level.
On that we agree. I want form players given opportunities, otherwise what's the point?
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@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@antipodean Of course. I just don't want Holland to be too conservative in his selections when uncapped midfielders do impress at super level.
On that we agree. I want form players given opportunities, otherwise what's the point?
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@antipodean Of course. I just don't want Holland to be too conservative in his selections when uncapped midfielders do impress at super level.
On that we agree. I want form players given opportunities, otherwise what's the point?
But it has to be done within a framework of existing core players. Foster's penchant for picking a swag of new players all at once is counter productive and doesn't build combinations or confidence
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Wait - wasn't one of the more common criticisms of Foster that he was overly loyal to existing players?
But now also - a penchant for picking swags of new players all at once?
He was truly a troublesome little (or not-so-little, compulsory fat-joke, guffaw) devil, wasn't he? -
@Bones They started in those positions, but spent significant time outside of midfield (JB bc he moved to a team where he played everywhere but 12 and Rieko bc his speed made wing seem logical). At times their current play makes that clear - they lack some of subtleties that come from consistent years in midfield.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack but Henry also almost got dumped, it was a bit of a miracle he didn't - because he didn't have an utter shit show preceding him. I think people are a lot more willing to give Jesus a bit of leeway because we've got used to poor performance. He might even be as good as Hart I reckon.
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Anyone know the confirmed NZ NH Tour itinerary 2024.
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Anyone know the confirmed NZ NH Tour itinerary 2024.
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Anyone know the confirmed NZ NH Tour itinerary 2024.
As per normal we only find out well late, and the best way to see what is happening is to see what the NH say they are playing. But 2x england home, fiji home/away, 2x SA away, split Oz, 2x arg home, Fr and Ire away, I think. Not necessarily in that exact order
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Anyone know the confirmed NZ NH Tour itinerary 2024.
As per normal we only find out well late, and the best way to see what is happening is to see what the NH say they are playing. But 2x england home, fiji home/away, 2x SA away, split Oz, 2x arg home, Fr and Ire away, I think. Not necessarily in that exact order
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Fr and Ire away, I think.
Eng & France away. Probably Ireland too and there’s been a suggestion we play Japan on the way home
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@Punch_up come on man, just concede your original premise was a stab in the dark, that sounded good but had no basis in fact. NZ aren't the only team that select guys who play other positions, despite how much you move the goal posts.
@Bones I don't think I need to concede anything of the sort. Name a country other than NZ that converted their test fullback into a 13 not once, not twice, but on three seperate occasions? Name a country other than NZ that converted their test winger into a 13 on two different occasions? That's five different positional switches by outside backs to the 13 jersey in the span of approximately 25 years.
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I think its prob
Oct 26 Japan
Nov 2 England
Nov 9 Italy
Nov 16 France
Nov 23 IrelandAlready booked the hotel in Dublin so hope right date
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Ireland game will be a ripper.
Cant get enthused by Twickenham very underwhelming place and a long way from the pitch. -
Robertson very luckily avoiding egg on his face for being the first AB coach to lose to Scotland. No way this latest AB team in rebuild mode would be able to handle a rugged experienced pack, Finn Russell pulling the strings like the magician he is, hard hitting
TonganScot Sione Tuipulotu in midfield and a rampaging pair ofBokshaggis munchers in Van De Merwe and Steyn out wide. -
@Bones I don't think I need to concede anything of the sort. Name a country other than NZ that converted their test fullback into a 13 not once, not twice, but on three seperate occasions? Name a country other than NZ that converted their test winger into a 13 on two different occasions? That's five different positional switches by outside backs to the 13 jersey in the span of approximately 25 years.
@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Bones I don't think I need to concede anything of the sort. Name a country other than NZ that converted their test fullback into a 13 not once, not twice, but on three seperate occasions? Name a country other than NZ that converted their test winger into a 13 on two different occasions? That's five different positional switches by outside backs to the 13 jersey in the span of approximately 25 years.
Happy to remind you of what you said if it's too hard to remember bro! I'm leaning towards, the above is exactly not what you said, not even close. Fickou, Farrell, North....or are these now minor countries?
@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
NZ is the only major country that doesn't always select specialists in midfield -
I don't think it's unusual at all for wings fullbacks and wings to swap places, same as fullbacks and 1st fives etc. I seem to recall Aus swapping players around quite a bit, and Boks etc. If I could be bothered etc I would have a look somewhere. Quite often teams liked starting players on wing until they get used to test rugby as the defence at 13 is so specialised? The likes of Ioane was a centre before he was a wing. Even Cullen started his provincial rugby rugby at centre etc
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I don't think it's unusual at all for wings fullbacks and wings to swap places, same as fullbacks and 1st fives etc. I seem to recall Aus swapping players around quite a bit, and Boks etc. If I could be bothered etc I would have a look somewhere. Quite often teams liked starting players on wing until they get used to test rugby as the defence at 13 is so specialised? The likes of Ioane was a centre before he was a wing. Even Cullen started his provincial rugby rugby at centre etc
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I don't think it's unusual at all for wings fullbacks and wings to swap places, same as fullbacks and 1st fives etc. I seem to recall Aus swapping players around quite a bit, and Boks etc. If I could be bothered etc I would have a look somewhere. Quite often teams liked starting players on wing until they get used to test rugby as the defence at 13 is so specialised? The likes of Ioane was a centre before he was a wing. Even Cullen started his provincial rugby rugby at centre etc
Australia were brilliant at getting all their awesome outside backs on the pitch together.
That was 20 odd years ago though, they’re shit now.
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@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Bones I don't think I need to concede anything of the sort. Name a country other than NZ that converted their test fullback into a 13 not once, not twice, but on three seperate occasions? Name a country other than NZ that converted their test winger into a 13 on two different occasions? That's five different positional switches by outside backs to the 13 jersey in the span of approximately 25 years.
Happy to remind you of what you said if it's too hard to remember bro! I'm leaning towards, the above is exactly not what you said, not even close. Fickou, Farrell, North....or are these now minor countries?
@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
NZ is the only major country that doesn't always select specialists in midfield -
I don't think it's unusual at all for wings fullbacks and wings to swap places, same as fullbacks and 1st fives etc. I seem to recall Aus swapping players around quite a bit, and Boks etc. If I could be bothered etc I would have a look somewhere. Quite often teams liked starting players on wing until they get used to test rugby as the defence at 13 is so specialised? The likes of Ioane was a centre before he was a wing. Even Cullen started his provincial rugby rugby at centre etc
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@Bones Clearly, I was talking about outside backs (fullbacks and wingers) being converted into 13s, bc all the examples I cited were... outside backs (fullbacks and wingers) being converted into 13s.
@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Bones Clearly, I was talking about outside backs (fullbacks and wingers) being converted into 13s, bc all the examples I cited were... outside backs (fullbacks and wingers) being converted into 13s.
No mate, clearly this is what you said.
@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
NZ is the only major country that doesn't always select specialists in midfieldYou still haven't clarified who the major countries are either.
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@Punch_up ok mate, I realise you probably talking about moving to 13, but I actually think most that you talk about were actually 13s who played at wing or fullback anyway, to be fitted in. I thinking didn't Ben Smith play 13 for the Otago and the Clan, Mils Mulianan was another, as I said Cullen was.
I not saying it always works , but I sure the Boks have done it a number of times and those players I think played at centre at lower levels too.
