All Blacks 2024
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MajorRage said in All Blacks 2024:
Granted, I've only seen the highlights on the weekend
Fuck I love this sort of analysis
Top Ferning 
Means I only missed about 20 mins of in ball play the entire RC …
Feel free to let me know what you disagree with, happy to debate and review where I’m wrong ….
@MajorRage said in All Blacks 2024:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MajorRage said in All Blacks 2024:
Granted, I've only seen the highlights on the weekend
Fuck I love this sort of analysis
Top Ferning Means I only missed about 20 mins of in ball play the entire RC …
Feel free to let me know what you disagree with, happy to debate and review where I’m wrong ….
Nah your points are valid, just the ' I only watched the highlights but...' are common on teh interwebs, normally followed by rubbish. Your points based on the entire series not just that match
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Been having a bit of a think on our poor last quarters - which have been extremely thinly papered over by bringing a fresh McKenzie and Ratima on against tiring Wallabies.
The reasons I see:
The lack of game-time the bench guys have had.
The timing of bringing the bench on.
The bench positional mix.
The lack of calm old heads.
Mariner's point about asking McKenzie to make absolutely all of our play and his fatigue.Firstly it's clear that we're trying to play fast. I like that approach, as it suits the way people are brought up playing the game in NZ, and due to that we are always more likely to produce the cattle appropriate for it. We might sometimes look on in envy at successful teams playing more conservative rugby, but I don't think we can consistently be successful trying to replicate it. If you were to look at our first half performances in the RC, we're looking pretty sharp against fresh defences which is a big positive for the game plan, and a big tick for McKenzie's ability to find gaps.
To deal with McKenzie's fatigue, which could be leading to our losing a bit of direction late in games, there are a few options: DM gets fitter or manages his efforts better; he gets more help from other players; or he gets subbed. I think it's very clear from BB's run at 10 that there is nobody in NZ right now who is ready to slot in for DM and keep the same game plan going - so if you sub him, it means a complete change of game plan. That's no small thing, but it is do-able if it is well planned and you bring all the subs on together who have trained to play that different style - e.g. bring on the big boys and Plummer and play narrow Blues 2024 rugby. The easier option would be for DM to get more support, which I guess is where the BB at fullback 2-playmakers attempts come from - not working because BB is not working. WJ isn't that style of fullback, but is our best fullback - so I can't see DM getting help from 15. At 12 JB doesn't seem to be that guy (yet at least), and ALB a little bit but not really. Roigard may be able to provide the help required as he has a bit more of the playmaker 9 about him, but who knows how he will come back from injury. This is the most difficult problem to solve.
The lack of calm old heads. Well we tried old heads in bringing on TJ and BB from the bench, and it was shit because they're not calm guys. You can't do much about losing the likes of Retallick/Whitelock/Smith, but a Savea (or even Cane if you're playing narrow) might help. Otherwise it's more about temperament and leadership from the other guys on the field than experience on the bench.
Bench positional mix. Specialist wingers, jesus christ. no, no, no. We're playing a fast game and the guys getting fatigued are the forwards and 9 & 10. Particularly egregious when most of our backline play multiple positions. We need to look at the best mix to get to a 6-2 split asap as per South Africa.
Bench timing: sadly again we can learn from the Saffas here. This has been a bit of a mess. Robertson used them pretty randomly, then lost faith with the bench and in subsequent games left fatties on too long or moved experienced guys he trusted there. The ABs must have a shitload of data which shows when guys are slowing down and need to be replaced, and optimising that and bringing players on together to retain combinations does not strike me as very complicated.
Bench game time: I'm becoming a bit of a broken record on this (amongst other things), but guys like Aumua are good footy players, not playing well. If you leave him on the bench playing a few minutes each week and then ask him to throw pressure lineouts, what do you expect? Extra nerves combined with a lack of match practice = fuck ups. Again, learn from the Boks: both of their hookers get good minutes.
Hopefully Robertson has actually been thinking about some of this and isn't just sitting there pleased that the media aren't hassling him on the subject anymore because he swapped his starters onto the bench and we performed better in the last quarter. If we can solve it, it would go a long way to making us harder to beat.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
Mostly ABs topping the stats
Not too surprising given South Africa rotated their players significantly.
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Been having a bit of a think on our poor last quarters - which have been extremely thinly papered over by bringing a fresh McKenzie and Ratima on against tiring Wallabies.
The reasons I see:
The lack of game-time the bench guys have had.
The timing of bringing the bench on.
The bench positional mix.
The lack of calm old heads.
Mariner's point about asking McKenzie to make absolutely all of our play and his fatigue.Firstly it's clear that we're trying to play fast. I like that approach, as it suits the way people are brought up playing the game in NZ, and due to that we are always more likely to produce the cattle appropriate for it. We might sometimes look on in envy at successful teams playing more conservative rugby, but I don't think we can consistently be successful trying to replicate it. If you were to look at our first half performances in the RC, we're looking pretty sharp against fresh defences which is a big positive for the game plan, and a big tick for McKenzie's ability to find gaps.
To deal with McKenzie's fatigue, which could be leading to our losing a bit of direction late in games, there are a few options: DM gets fitter or manages his efforts better; he gets more help from other players; or he gets subbed. I think it's very clear from BB's run at 10 that there is nobody in NZ right now who is ready to slot in for DM and keep the same game plan going - so if you sub him, it means a complete change of game plan. That's no small thing, but it is do-able if it is well planned and you bring all the subs on together who have trained to play that different style - e.g. bring on the big boys and Plummer and play narrow Blues 2024 rugby. The easier option would be for DM to get more support, which I guess is where the BB at fullback 2-playmakers attempts come from - not working because BB is not working. WJ isn't that style of fullback, but is our best fullback - so I can't see DM getting help from 15. At 12 JB doesn't seem to be that guy (yet at least), and ALB a little bit but not really. Roigard may be able to provide the help required as he has a bit more of the playmaker 9 about him, but who knows how he will come back from injury. This is the most difficult problem to solve.
The lack of calm old heads. Well we tried old heads in bringing on TJ and BB from the bench, and it was shit because they're not calm guys. You can't do much about losing the likes of Retallick/Whitelock/Smith, but a Savea (or even Cane if you're playing narrow) might help. Otherwise it's more about temperament and leadership from the other guys on the field than experience on the bench.
Bench positional mix. Specialist wingers, jesus christ. no, no, no. We're playing a fast game and the guys getting fatigued are the forwards and 9 & 10. Particularly egregious when most of our backline play multiple positions. We need to look at the best mix to get to a 6-2 split asap as per South Africa.
Bench timing: sadly again we can learn from the Saffas here. This has been a bit of a mess. Robertson used them pretty randomly, then lost faith with the bench and in subsequent games left fatties on too long or moved experienced guys he trusted there. The ABs must have a shitload of data which shows when guys are slowing down and need to be replaced, and optimising that and bringing players on together to retain combinations does not strike me as very complicated.
Bench game time: I'm becoming a bit of a broken record on this (amongst other things), but guys like Aumua are good footy players, not playing well. If you leave him on the bench playing a few minutes each week and then ask him to throw pressure lineouts, what do you expect? Extra nerves combined with a lack of match practice = fuck ups. Again, learn from the Boks: both of their hookers get good minutes.
Hopefully Robertson has actually been thinking about some of this and isn't just sitting there pleased that the media aren't hassling him on the subject anymore because he swapped his starters onto the bench and we performed better in the last quarter. If we can solve it, it would go a long way to making us harder to beat.
Good points and a pragmatic idea to play the Blues style near the end of the game. I've called for this too. It means we dominate possession the last quarter instead of defend.
The team yellows haven't helped in the last quarter but I think that comes down to fatigue leaving too many guys on - not making changes.
Maybe the bench with the bigger guys in the last test is an indication they're open to changing the style for the last quarter?
The Pumas test in Eden Park was our best test this year and in the rain we played a much more direct Blues style game which proves we have the ability to play that style.
It's no coincidence that William's and Darry started in that test. Two guys in the tight forwards that get across the advantage line.
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Good points and a pragmatic idea to play the Blues style near the end of the game. I've called for this too. It means we dominate possession the last quarter instead of defend.
The team yellows haven't helped in the last quarter but I think that comes down to fatigue leaving too many guys on - not making changes.
Maybe the bench with the bigger guys in the last test is an indication they're open to changing the style for the last quarter?
The Pumas test in Eden Park was our best test this year and in the rain we played a much more direct Blues style game which proves we have the ability to play that style.
It's no coincidence that William's and Darry started in that test. Two guys in the tight forwards that get across the advantage line.
@brodean fatigue definitely a factor in some of the yellows.
Sititi by himself has made a significant difference to our ball carrying. I'm not so sure about Darry as a runner, but as previous I think changing the prop combinations so we have one of Williams and Tosi on at all times has immediate merit. Swapping Cane out for someone who can make a few effective carries is an obvious one, then next port of call for me would be more minutes for Aumua. That plus getting to a 6-2 split and generally bringing the bench on earlier I think would make a big difference. -
@brodean fatigue definitely a factor in some of the yellows.
Sititi by himself has made a significant difference to our ball carrying. I'm not so sure about Darry as a runner, but as previous I think changing the prop combinations so we have one of Williams and Tosi on at all times has immediate merit. Swapping Cane out for someone who can make a few effective carries is an obvious one, then next port of call for me would be more minutes for Aumua. That plus getting to a 6-2 split and generally bringing the bench on earlier I think would make a big difference.Darry made some good hard metres for the Blues and was surprisingly good at muscling over for the try
6 - 2 bench is a good thing to look at for some teams. Who are you thinking for the utility back?
South Africa have a loose forward who can cover midfield and a halfback who can cover wing.
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Darry made some good hard metres for the Blues and was surprisingly good at muscling over for the try
6 - 2 bench is a good thing to look at for some teams. Who are you thinking for the utility back?
South Africa have a loose forward who can cover midfield and a halfback who can cover wing.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Darry made some good hard metres for the Blues and was surprisingly good at muscling over for the try
6 - 2 bench is a good thing to look at for some teams. Who are you thinking for the utility back?
South Africa have a loose forward who can cover midfield and a halfback who can cover wing.
I guess I just don't see Darry as adding more than Vaai or Barrett overall at this stage, or Pat on the bench - and think there's other more substantial gains to be made in the pack's ball running elsewhere first.
The utility back obviously depends a lot on the starting lineup e.g. put Rieko on the wing and you could get away without midfield cover and use a 10/15 utility on the bench. Otherwise you probably have to start a fullback or 12 who can cover 10, and put a midfielder ALB/JB on the bench.
Can Plummer play fullback? If he covered 10/12/15 off the bench then a Narawa/Fainganuku on the wing covering centre would work. -
@gt12 All those games counted.
He got dished a pretty bogus yellow card after 90 seconds, which probably hampered him a bit.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@gt12 All those games counted.
He got dished a pretty bogus yellow card after 90 seconds, which probably hampered him a bit.
Cane got a red card and made 8 times the amount of tackles as your Tongan boy.
Being shit hampered him a bit.
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I'd be surprised if Tosi would have played if Newell was fit. It could be another example where injury solved a problem.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
I'd be surprised if Tosi would have played if Newell was fit. It could be another example where injury solved a problem.
With benefit of hindsight it seems odd that Tosi didn’t Chuck on a jersey when Newell calf went in warm up to Boks 2.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@gt12 All those games counted.
He got dished a pretty bogus yellow card after 90 seconds, which probably hampered him a bit.
Cane got a red card and made 8 times the amount of tackles as your Tongan boy.
Being shit hampered him a bit.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@gt12 All those games counted.
He got dished a pretty bogus yellow card after 90 seconds, which probably hampered him a bit.
Cane got a red card and made 8 times the amount of tackles as your Tongan boy.
Being shit hampered him a bit.
Would have been fucking good if Sam had made one less!
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
I'd be surprised if Tosi would have played if Newell was fit. It could be another example where injury solved a problem.
With benefit of hindsight it seems odd that Tosi didn’t Chuck on a jersey when Newell calf went in warm up to Boks 2.
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
I'd be surprised if Tosi would have played if Newell was fit. It could be another example where injury solved a problem.
With benefit of hindsight it seems odd that Tosi didn’t Chuck on a jersey when Newell calf went in warm up to Boks 2.
I think they still feel Tosi is a work in progress - because he is. His scrummaging remains a big concern.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
I'd be surprised if Tosi would have played if Newell was fit. It could be another example where injury solved a problem.
With benefit of hindsight it seems odd that Tosi didn’t Chuck on a jersey when Newell calf went in warm up to Boks 2.
I think they still feel Tosi is a work in progress - because he is. His scrummaging remains a big concern.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
I'd be surprised if Tosi would have played if Newell was fit. It could be another example where injury solved a problem.
With benefit of hindsight it seems odd that Tosi didn’t Chuck on a jersey when Newell calf went in warm up to Boks 2.
I think they still feel Tosi is a work in progress - because he is. His scrummaging remains a big concern.
Yes, in particular against Boks. But Fletch was scrummaging on one leg and Lomax had steam coming out of his head gasket.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@gt12 All those games counted.
He got dished a pretty bogus yellow card after 90 seconds, which probably hampered him a bit.
Cane got a red card and made 8 times the amount of tackles as your Tongan boy.
Being shit hampered him a bit.
Would have been fucking good if Sam had made one less!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@gt12 All those games counted.
He got dished a pretty bogus yellow card after 90 seconds, which probably hampered him a bit.
Cane got a red card and made 8 times the amount of tackles as your Tongan boy.
Being shit hampered him a bit.
Would have been fucking good if Sam had made one less!
If your boy had made one more then maybe he would have.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
I'd be surprised if Tosi would have played if Newell was fit. It could be another example where injury solved a problem.
With benefit of hindsight it seems odd that Tosi didn’t Chuck on a jersey when Newell calf went in warm up to Boks 2.
I think they still feel Tosi is a work in progress - because he is. His scrummaging remains a big concern.
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ABs released to play NPC this round.
Friday 4 October
Northland v Otago – Semenoff Stadium, Whangarei, 7.05pm
Otago: George BowerSaturday 5 October
Manawatū v Counties Manukau – Massey University, 2.05pm
Counties Manukau: Dalton Papali’i, Cam RoigardSouthland v North Harbour – Invercargill Rugby Park, 4.35pm
Southland: Ethan de Groot
North Harbour: Mark Tele’aWellington v Hawkes Bay – Sky Stadium, Wellington, 4.35pm
Wellington: Billy ProctorCanterbury v Waikato – Apollo Projects Stadium, 7.05pm
Canterbury: George Bell, Sam Darry
Waikato: Samipeni FinauSunday 6 October
Ta$man v Taranaki – Trafalgar Park, Nelson, 2.05pm
Ta$man: Ethan Blackadder, Noah Hotham and David Havili
Taranaki: Stephen PerofetaAuckland v Bay of Plenty – Auckland Grammar School, 4.35pm
Auckland: Harry Plummer, Patrick Tuipulotu
Bay of Plenty: Pasilio Tosi -
NZ sports journalists - yikes!!!!
"The popular consensus is that in the second Bledisloe Cup test Beauden Barrett played his way into the jersey with a cool display that gave the All Blacks a sense of calm and a more stable springboard."
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on thing that has epitomized the Robertson regime so far is ruthlessness at the selection table
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NZ sports journalists - yikes!!!!
"The popular consensus is that in the second Bledisloe Cup test Beauden Barrett played his way into the jersey with a cool display that gave the All Blacks a sense of calm and a more stable springboard."
