All Blacks 2024
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Don't know if this has been said. I think the best NZ 10 in 2023 and 2024 is/was DMac.
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I think the game has moved on from an out an out fetcher, instead all 15 players now have the ability to gain turnover ball. It’s the players having the skill to identify an isolated player and act in that. It would be very interesting to see the stats on holding on penalties and see what number jersey is getting those penalties. From memory Savea got us a lot of clutch holding on penalties last season. But I think many other players did too.
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You still need at least one loose forward who can be a pest at the breakdown. He doesn't need to win turnovers all the time but just slow the opposition ball down enough to give your defence time to realign. As always, the loosies need to complement each other. We've seen enough examples of what an unbalanced loose forward trio looks like.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
What are the stats?
I only have individual game stats. It would be a bitch to add them all up
Looks like I can get some good SR info though
- Top 10 players in ~50 stats
- Top 10 players in the same stats but averaged by minutes
- Top 10 performances by players in a single stat in a single game
- Team rankings on those ~50 stats
I won't be able to just dump them all here but I'll be able to post some interesting ones
Probably a couple off weeks before I look at this. By then the numbers will mean more anyway
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There's always two ways to discuss AB selections. What you would pick or what you think the AB selectors will pick
Robertson has generally gone for loosies with high tackle counts and sometimes with a narrower skillset too.
Christie is the classic example, but a guy like Grace at number 8 is very different than other NZ sides no 8s (he would be a blindside in most other teams). Before Grace was Whetu Douglas even a guy like Sione Havili got game time at 8
Harmon was there for a few seasons, couldn't get past Christie and left after Havili seemed to pass him in the rankings too
There's exceptions of course people like Blackadder & Matera. But Robertson did seem to pick different styles than other teams. Maybe that'll be different at AB level? The Crusaders always had the best tight five and they kicked more than other teams so that would've had an impact on what was required from a loosie.
Regardless of how the Crusaders are going right now I think their loosies have a better chance at being in the squad than many on TSF think. I think guys like Jacobson, Papali'i & Segner fit that profile. Players like Lakai and Sotutu maybe not
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Curious to know how rival fans rate Fabian Holland. Obviously he isn't available until the end of 2025, but to me he looks to comfortably already be in the best three locks in New Zealand (Barrett and Lord).
Feels like his potential is endless, absolute freak of an athlete.
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@BerniesCorner Completely untested ...
Not that there are any dominant figures now.
Perofeta is good around the field, but can't kick goals to save himself.
Lets see DMac against England. Only other option is Perofeta with another goalkicker.
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Does anyone watch a lot of Japanese club rugby? Warner Dearns is playing for Japan, but he's only 21. Is he someone who could come back and be a significant challenger to the other young guys coming through? Or is he right where he should be?
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Does anyone watch a lot of Japanese club rugby? Warner Dearns is playing for Japan, but he's only 21. Is he someone who could come back and be a significant challenger to the other young guys coming through? Or is he right where he should be?
When was his last cap for Japan? I rate him from the little I have seen of him.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ACT-Crusader it's the constant theme that RM is being excluded unfairly despite the fact that he, you know, signed a fucking contract overseas. That's what pissed me off.
Also fuck Frizzell, did.we.give that spud a sabbatical? Also cane is old news (no mafia I will not be surrendering my membership card)
No seems he signed for a year? Similar to DMac a couple of years back, has to actually play in NZ before he is considered etc. Not a sabbatical (where they still under contract to NZR, and can be picked as soon as they step off plane)
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ACT-Crusader it's the constant theme that RM is being excluded unfairly despite the fact that he, you know, signed a fucking contract overseas. That's what pissed me off.
Also fuck Frizzell, did.we.give that spud a sabbatical? Also cane is old news (no mafia I will not be surrendering my membership card)
No seems he signed for a year? Similar to DMac a couple of years back, has to actually play in NZ before he is considered etc. Not a sabbatical (where they still under contract to NZR, and can be picked as soon as they step off plane)
There are no set rules anymore.
TJ Perenara was available for selection immediately upon returning before playing NPC.
Damian McKenzie was explicitly not.
Beauden Barrett is now available for selection in July despite following the exact same process as McKenzie.
Basically NZR just follow a bespoke process for each player.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ACT-Crusader it's the constant theme that RM is being excluded unfairly despite the fact that he, you know, signed a fucking contract overseas. That's what pissed me off.
Also fuck Frizzell, did.we.give that spud a sabbatical? Also cane is old news (no mafia I will not be surrendering my membership card)
No seems he signed for a year? Similar to DMac a couple of years back, has to actually play in NZ before he is considered etc. Not a sabbatical (where they still under contract to NZR, and can be picked as soon as they step off plane)
There are no set rules anymore.
TJ Perenara was available for selection immediately upon returning before playing NPC.
Damian McKenzie was explicitly not.
Beauden Barrett is now available for selection in July despite following the exact same process as McKenzie.
Basically NZR just follow a bespoke process for each player.
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Yup, TJ sabbatical (same with cane), DMac not. Beaudy we don't actually know what the deal was, behind the scenes. He was signed to the end of 2023 with NZR, and then had a contract in Japan, now signed again with NZR but anything else is speculation.
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Yup, TJ sabbatical (same with cane), DMac not. Beaudy we don't actually know what the deal was, behind the scenes. He was signed to the end of 2023 with NZR, and then had a contract in Japan, now signed again with NZR but anything else is speculation.
@Machpants yep but fact he is signed with NZR says it all.
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There's always two ways to discuss AB selections. What you would pick or what you think the AB selectors will pick
Robertson has generally gone for loosies with high tackle counts and sometimes with a narrower skillset too.
Christie is the classic example, but a guy like Grace at number 8 is very different than other NZ sides no 8s (he would be a blindside in most other teams). Before Grace was Whetu Douglas even a guy like Sione Havili got game time at 8
Harmon was there for a few seasons, couldn't get past Christie and left after Havili seemed to pass him in the rankings too
There's exceptions of course people like Blackadder & Matera. But Robertson did seem to pick different styles than other teams. Maybe that'll be different at AB level? The Crusaders always had the best tight five and they kicked more than other teams so that would've had an impact on what was required from a loosie.
Regardless of how the Crusaders are going right now I think their loosies have a better chance at being in the squad than many on TSF think. I think guys like Jacobson, Papali'i & Segner fit that profile. Players like Lakai and Sotutu maybe not
@Duluth Harmon seems a very different player since his days in the Saders squad. His fitness is several notches up and his impact at the tackle and with ball in hand is far greater.
From what I’ve seen over the last little while, both Harmon and Segner run excellent lines on both sides of the ball, so I think we could do a lot worse if one of these two were running around in an AB 7 jersey.
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@Mr-Fish Yep wasn't TJ on a sabbatical? I thought he was. Think BB is too in the fact he has already signed with NZR when Japan season ends.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Mr-Fish Yep wasn't TJ on a sabbatical? I thought he was. Think BB is too in the fact he has already signed with NZR when Japan season ends.
No, none of the three were/are on sabbaticals. They all signed deals in Japan and only negotiated new deals with NZR once they were overseas.
The old rule, unless you were on a sabbatical, was you had to play in the immediately preceding domestic competition to be eligible for the All Blacks but it's all fairly fluid now (see: NZR do what they want).
Beauden Barrett and Brodie Retallick took sabbatical options during the 2021 Super Rugby season and so were instantly eligible for selection upon their returns to NZ for the mid-year Tests (because this was part of their contract).
Perenara, on the other hand, wasn't eligible for selection for that July series (as he wasn't on a sabbatical, confirmed by Foster in a media stand-up) but was apparently eligible for The Rugby Championship that season (confirmed by Foster in the same stand-up).
McKenzie, however, despite treading the same path as Perenara the prior year, wasn't eligible for the 2022 Rugby Championship (the team release for the competition stated: "Unavailable for selection due to New Zealand Rugby return to play criteria - Damian McKenzie.")
So, in theory, Barrett shouldn't be available until the Rugby Championship at the very earliest (if going by Perenara's process) and not for the EOYT if going by McKenzie's process. That's not the case, however. Evidently Barrett negotiated in his new contract that he would be available for selection immediately, despite the precedent.
So the rules are all made up and don't really follow any rhyme or reason.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Mr-Fish Yep wasn't TJ on a sabbatical? I thought he was. Think BB is too in the fact he has already signed with NZR when Japan season ends.
No, none of the three were/are on sabbaticals. They all signed deals in Japan and only negotiated new deals with NZR once they were overseas.
The old rule, unless you were on a sabbatical, was you had to play in the immediately preceding domestic competition to be eligible for the All Blacks but it's all fairly fluid now (see: NZR do what they want).
Beauden Barrett and Brodie Retallick took sabbatical options during the 2021 Super Rugby season and so were instantly eligible for selection upon their returns to NZ for the mid-year Tests (because this was part of their contract).
Perenara, on the other hand, wasn't eligible for selection for that July series (as he wasn't on a sabbatical, confirmed by Foster in a media stand-up) but was apparently eligible for The Rugby Championship that season (confirmed by Foster in the same stand-up).
McKenzie, however, despite treading the same path as Perenara the prior year, wasn't eligible for the 2022 Rugby Championship (the team release for the competition stated: "Unavailable for selection due to New Zealand Rugby return to play criteria - Damian McKenzie.")
So, in theory, Barrett shouldn't be available until the Rugby Championship at the very earliest (if going by Perenara's process) and not for the EOYT if going by McKenzie's process. That's not the case, however. Evidently Barrett negotiated in his new contract that he would be available for selection immediately, despite the precedent.
So the rules are all made up and don't really follow any rhyme or reason.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
> So the rules are all made up and don't really follow any rhyme or reason.
Which sums up NZR at the moment quite succiently.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
> So the rules are all made up and don't really follow any rhyme or reason.
Which sums up NZR at the moment quite succiently.
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
> So the rules are all made up and don't really follow any rhyme or reason.
Which sums up NZR at the moment quite succiently.
4 looong years.
But but he hasn't got enough international experience -
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
> So the rules are all made up and don't really follow any rhyme or reason.
Which sums up NZR at the moment quite succiently.
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
> So the rules are all made up and don't really follow any rhyme or reason.
Which sums up NZR at the moment quite succiently.
Well it sums uo a forum, we don't really know what happened at negotiating times etc, but we can pretend.
See Perenara's and BB were actually quite different, BB had signed with NZR before he went to Japan, where as TJ was wondering about going to league.
