Mental Illness.
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I think the issue with mental health is like many things in society these days, i.e. an overcorrection in response to inadequate management in the past rather than finding the right balance. While before, you were weak or a poof if you talked about your feelings, now it's straight to therapy or medication. Mental health should not be stigmatised, but at the same time shouldn't be idolised and almost bragged about. Ultimately mental health is a very complex thing and has a massive connection to physical health as well. I had my first ever major health scare in my early 20s. I'd had asthma all my life but hadn't really worried much in recent years. But I was living in Norway and contracted some kind of respiratory infection and had a bad asthma attack. It freaked me out. I couldn't sleep because I was afraid I would stop breathing. I sucked on mints by the truck loads so that I could feel I was breathing. The anxiety caused me to have massive chest pains and I then thought I was having heart problems. It hurt to breathe or cough. I was constantly going to emergency or wanting to go. Thankfully a decent doctor sat me down and told me that it was down to anxiety and I was smart enough to follow his advice. It's terrifying to think how severely that mental issue manifested itself in terms of physical effects. It fůcked me up royally and it was all in my head.
As I said, mental health is very complex and can take many forms and be for many reasons. Just look at those guys who appear to be living the life, with loving families who suddenly commit suicide.
Personally I've been hammered in the past decade. I lost my wife and both in-laws to cancer. Both my parents have just had cancer and my son suffered very bad PTSD after his mother died and he nearly died of a drug overdose. My saving grace has been exercise and I can't stress that enough. I remember one day when my son was particularly bad. He'd gone missing and I'd been talking to the cops. I was a mess but decided to go to swimming training just to do something. It was like night and day. Obviously my problems hadn't gone away but I felt like a different person and was ready to face whatever shit was coming. That was powerful and I have never forgotten it. Exercise is non-negotiable now and IMHO is a million times better than paying hundreds of dollars to talk to a stranger. That doesn't mean I think therapy is useless. Quite the opposite but I think alot of that is just getting things off your chest and having a sympathetic ear. I prefer friends and those I love.Shit. Rambling. I have a million more things to say but it's too incoherent. Ultimately, mental health and physical health are inextricably linked and IMHO exercise is vital for good mental health. I'd be royally fůcked without it
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@MajorRage said in Mental Illness.:
One thing I do suffer from badly though is anxiety. It has destroyed many social & work situations for me. I still haven't got the solution to get that under control, but I do refuse to take medication. I've opened up about it with a few buds, and it's surprisingly prevalent. However, I'm the only one that doesn't take Xanax to relieve the symptoms. I spoke to a Dr once about it, and they talked about various therapies / scenarios I should look at before drugs. I guess I've been too stubborn to try it as I don't like putting drugs into my body (never really have). Perhaps I could have had a much happier life / successful career if I had gone down this path. That, I'll never know.
I can really relate to this and the dichotomy of drugs/therapy to deal with it and wonder if the age when you become aware of it is key.
I knew since growing up that something wasn't quite right and my parents, who were incredibly progressive for the 60/70's on mental health ("it's simply an illness just like pneumonia or arthritis") simply told me I worried too much. I'd get a bit worried about stuff like leaving lights on or, long after a conversation, worry if I'd said the wrong thing. Later, in my 30's, I spent some time at a mental hospital helping out and became accustomed to dealing with the whole mental health spectrum and from that experience and my upbringing, thought myself pretty OK when dealing with people with mental health issues and just accepted I was a bit of a worrier or too cautious.
It wasn't until my daughter had a serious hospitalising breakdown in her early 20's that I started to understand anxiety and that it ran in my family. I was pretty taken aback/shocked to find out my sister suffered badly from it, but had learned to deal with it from an early age.
Now my older sister is the most capable person you will meet. A senior nurse who in her early-20's toured around the world, inc. eastern Europe & Russia (was arrested by Polish security police for going off-piste) and did and saw stuff most of us could dream of. She also pretty much raised 5 uber-successful kids on her own after her husband buggered off. She's the person who remains calm and collected in any crisis, handles serious problems and situations with ease and will probably think nothing about flying to NY for some shopping or art exhibition when she's in her mid-80's.
That revelation and my daughter's breakdown was an eye-opener and explained so much to me. My sister had learned how it affected her, determined it would not run her life and had found out what worked for her - which didn't include drugs or therapy. More importantly, she had accepted it as part of herself and never let managing it become a big thing in her life.
For me, just being aware that I can sometimes suffer from acute anxiety has made things better - I can recognise when I'm letting it get a hold on me, rationalise the situation and control it that way. Maybe drugs and or therapy may have helped me in my youth, but I have to balance that against it becoming a bigger part of my life.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Mental Illness.:
Just look at those guys who appear to be living the life, with loving families who suddenly commit suicide.
I started researching psychology (even read Jung and Freud, I advise not to) and in particular suicide, a couple of years ago largely because of that quote above. It's hugely complicated of course because people are, but the stats are staggering. Numbers differ depending on country and parameters, but an example is that one in twenty Australians between the ages of 16 and 80 will attempt suicide. Far more think about it. NZ may be worse but unlikely to be any better. So if you know 20 people...
Part of the problem is the stigma associated with it and the bullshit misunderstandings of it that get thrown around. There's a reason that those that should be talking, won't. Anyway, this was one of the first things that I found when I started looking and should be a must read for the general public.
The numbers are US and use different metrics to the Aus numbers that I mentioned.
There are some other misconceptions as well about suicide rates being higher when times are tough, or at least unusual. There is some data that rates drop during wartime, economic depressions (unfortunate word) and even during pandemics (including covid). There could be many and varied reasons that are apparent but the "not coping" thing isn't really about external factors it tends to be a more existential crisis. @MajorRage mentioned the "what's the point?" thought. It's a big one. Difficult to know an answer unless you happen to know the meaning of life (if so please DM me).
I wish that "mental illness" and "mental health" also hadn't become so broadly linked and used. Someone having a shit time of it can be really hurting to the point of suicidal thoughts (or action), but it isn't the same as being bipolar for example. Semantics I know, but thee two terms are linked and yet different, but the same.
I won't go on, but some of the misconceptions and ignorance about "sensitive" topics piss me off. Often by people who should know better.
As for the OP. It's both, we live all wrong (or at least haven't adjusted yet), and we also are recognising the outcomes more. What we aren't doing is curing it, we are addressing the symptoms (drugs), as is the case with so much of medicine. Some real pathology needed back to root causes and a more wholistic approach.
All that is probably more than my 2c worth but I have had some skin in the game.
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@taniwharugby said in Mental Illness.:
Now I'm not discounting what happened to him, or that it didnt impact him, but I also think people are very quick to go down the mental heath issue path, more so that I think they are difficult to truly diagnose (in that I am sure anyone could convince a Dr they have a mental illness) and likely difficult to cure for those with illnesses.
I'm in a strange dichotomy where I think most people are taking the piss when it comes to mental health, but am acutely aware of the debilitating aspects of mental health issues.
A close family member had a promising professional football career destroyed as a result of acute depression. And I'm ashamed to say that my response at the time was less than helpful as I couldn't understand why. Discussing that with my father led to an uncomfortable admission that he'd suffered from depression and contemplated suicide. I didn't feel equipped to continuing having that discussion. I mean, what the fuck do you say to that other than "pleased you didn't"?
I get the feeling that mentioning some are taking the piss in this day and age is social suicide. I've culled my list of acquaintances due to their belief that the topic is sacrosanct and prevailing orthodoxy isn't to be questioned. It's one thing to destigmatise it, it's another to accept without question or criticism when it's brought up.
Case in point; the number of vets who have claimed PTSD as a result of their service. Most of them haven't seen combat, the worst they had to deal with was temporary internet access unavailability. PS employees claiming it from office work, are we really that fragile these days?
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I totally get what you’re driving at, especially the view that nothing can be questioned and this for me is probably the biggest barrier to wider understanding. However it is often difficult to comprehend what mental anguish a person is going through. Ms Cato No1 had a period of pretty deep depression and I found that very difficult to deal with as I just couldn’t understand why. A close friend that had experienced much the same but with far more obvious reasons helped my understanding somewhat. Paraphrased she said “ she’s got nothing to be depressed about, she’s doing the Uni course she always wanted, she has friends, a loving family, she has hobbies, she’s a pretty girl. There’s nothing to be depressed about. And you know what? None of that matters if you can’t see it”.
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@antipodean I've never seen combat as the yardstick for trauma though and don't think it should be.
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@Bones said in Mental Illness.:
@antipodean I've never seen combat as the yardstick for trauma though and don't think it should be.
Gabor Maté certainly agrees with you (and so do I).
He goes one further than just mental illness and includes physical ailments as an outcome of trauma. He also attributes much of modern day living as a causal factor. Not necessary to actually believe all of his theory to understand the point that he is making. He also touches on the more wholistic approach to medicine and finding solutions that don't involve using drugs to treat symptoms. I touched on it before. None of it is new, Eastern medicine has always been more comprehensive in mental involvement in medicine. There is a place for both, but not much money to be made in one of them (other than psychotherapy).
The Myth of Normal - Dr. Gabor Maté
By the acclaimed author of In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, a groundbreaking investigation into the causes of illness, a bracing critique of how our society breeds disease, and a pathway to health and healing.
Personally I have seen some pretty horrific things doing disaster relief, medivac, along with severe injuries resulting from violence and don't really even consider them the most traumatic events of my life.
Trauma being the wound that is inflicted by an event, not the event itself, so it is the effect on the individual not what they saw that is relevant.
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@bones. I try.
He actually does it even better:
"Trauma is not what happens to you. Trauma is what happens inside you as a result of what happens to you."
I'm not a particular follower of his, just read bits and pieces until I get to read the whole thing.
Victor Frankl is another who touches on trauma. He was a psychoanalyst who was in Auschwitz, so has some "lived experience" to draw on for his theories.
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@Snowy Gabor Maté is fantastic and his work has helped my wife and I alot, that book is definitely worth a read if you or someone you know may be suffering from past trauma.
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@No-Quarter said in Mental Illness.:
@Snowy Gabor Maté is fantastic and his work has helped my wife and I alot, that book is definitely worth a read if you or someone you know may he suffering from past trauma.
Yeah, I've read lots of bits of his stuff, just haven't had a chance to read that complete book yet. I stay away from pop psychology self-help type stuff, but he certainly isn't in that category. I'm more interested in the actual psychology, particularly emotional responses and even physiological affects, which make it all a bit more recognisable than what is going on in someone's head. His theories seem to be logical. Interesting history for him too given my comments about Frankl.
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@Bones said in Mental Illness.:
@antipodean I've never seen combat as the yardstick for trauma though and don't think it should be.
I don't recall saying that. But within the narrow confine of military service, I can't think of much that would top it.
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@antipodean yeah sure, if you've served in the military. But for example, I reckon firefighters have seen some ghastly shit I don't even want to imagine.
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@Bones said in Mental Illness.:
@antipodean yeah sure, if you've served in the military.
Which was the entirety of that point.
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@antipodean ok, my misunderstanding. To me it read like you haven't had trauma unless you've seen combat.
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@Catogrande said in Mental Illness.:
@antipodean
. Paraphrased she said “ she’s got nothing to be depressed about, she’s doing the Uni course she always wanted, she has friends, a loving family, she has hobbies, she’s a pretty girl. There’s nothing to be depressed about. And you know what? None of that matters if you can’t see it”.That's the worst shit you hear, people saying you've got a good life why are you depressed? Depression isn't just the result of being unhappy/sad, it's true result of chemicals in the brain. It can be exacerbated by outside life, but it is a medical condition. It can be treated by medicine.
There maybe a big part of diet being the problem with our mental health. Our carb heavy, often just carb meals/snacks, diet not only is making us fat but the spikes and crashes of glucose in the brain has been linked with depression, anxiety, etc.
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@Machpants that's pretty much the guts of it isn't it? being happy/sad is also a result of chemicals in the brain, but working properly. being depressed could arguably be simplified to being sad when you shouldn't be, because some of those chemicals in the brain aren't behaving as they should. so 'what has she got to be depressed about?' is missing the point by about as much as is possible.
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@reprobate said in Mental Illness.:
@Machpants that's pretty much the guts of it isn't it? being happy/sad is also a result of chemicals in the brain, but working properly. being depressed could arguably be simplified to being sad when you shouldn't be, because some of those chemicals in the brain aren't behaving as they should. so 'what has she got to be depressed about?' is missing the point by about as much as is possible.
Indeed, and interestingly guts makes a difference too, we are discovering that our gut microme is a massive influencer of mental health, and out gut microbes are 50% of what they were a few hundred years ago
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@antipodean said in Mental Illness.:
But within the narrow confine of military service, I can't think of much that would top it.
As a possible cause of trauma, not as a measure of trauma. The word comes from Greek, meaning wound, so again it is the outcome, not the event that defines the trauma. There is no "top it" because it doesn't matter what happened, it is what happened to the person afterwards.
I guess that the term PTSD is a bit misleading as it infers that the event itself is the trauma which isn't technically true (my pedantry on the semantics perhaps). PTSED (Post traumatic stress event disorder) is a bit of a mouthful. My understanding, and to para phrase it, is a non normal behaviour pattern caused by an event that a particular person deemed so stressful that it altered their frame of mind and consequent actions. (That is why they didn't let me come up the letters to abbreviate it).
The point is that a failed marriage may cause more trauma than seeing your best mate's brains blown out on a battlefield. It depends on the person. A true psychopath would in fact have no psychological wound at all. Which is not to say that people unaffected by such events are psychopaths, just that they have managed to deal with it. Would be great to know exactly how!
So although combat is not doubt an horrific thing to witness it isn't necessarily going to cause any wound or neuroses (in Freudian terms - the Wiki page is actually quite good). That would depend on the individual, it may range from nil to catatonia, and as such isn't a measure (or "yardstick for trauma" as @bones correctly said). The severity of the event is irrelevant.
Why do I care? It is what makes it so interesting (and difficult to fathom) because what might seem a minor trivial event is actually significant to that person, and yet seeing a children's hospital blown up may not have quite the effect that we would expect it to. Dealing with our own issues is a lot easier if we can identify them. As I said above, I've seen some bloody (literally and figuratively) awful things but they usually aren't front and centre if I feel shit and that the world is a truly awful place. Some of our demons can be latent.
5 Common Myths About Suicide Debunked
