Mental Illness.
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@nzzp said in Mental Illness.:
@Snowy said in Mental Illness.:
If it's "only" annoying you're doing well although I suspect that it is a little more than that. It can be a lot more than that for some. Increase in suicide rate is a bit of a clue and it doesn't really ease up either.
Good comment. Annoying at the moment as I'm deliberately tackling it over the next year or so. If things don't shift, then it goes from annoying to concerning.
Not any expert on this, but the fact you're aware sounds a positive thing.
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@antipodean lots of similarities to what I wanted to do at 39. I then realized I didn’t.
But I do again.
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@MajorRage 'regrets are for people with time machines' - Mrs Antipodean
edit - I'll add to that the discussion about the existence of free will,. If an outcome was predetermined, what's the point in dwelling on the outcome?
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@MajorRage said in Mental Illness.:
@antipodean lots of similarities to what I wanted to do at 39. I then realized I didn’t.
But I do again.
Made me laugh but seems to be what happens!
I've also kind of gone down the @antipodean route. Not the same but a lifestyle choice. Block of land was bought 20 years ago, got diploma in permaculture and eco design type stuff. Eco house now nearly finished. Orchard, gardens still to go in, but a "what next" phase happening. So as of yesterday afternoon, this:
@MajorRage said in Mental Illness.:
Then I went back in
It's different, a bit of both decision, so hopefully I have a different outcome. Sorry to hear that it didn't work out for you MR but of one thing you can be sure - it will all change again. Your later advice may be grim by the way, but it is sage nonetheless.
@MajorRage said in Mental Illness.:
I played golf with a surgeon a while back who has lost a few of his surgeon mates to heart attacks after they abruptly stopped working. He said it all to do with stress hormones and if your body suddenly loses them then heart attack risk goes up exponentially.
Yep. There was a survey done quite some time ago (in Germany I think) of pilots after retirement and a massively disproportionate number died just after stopping (especially for their age). The physiological side of change as you say from chronic stressors. Again it comes down to the wholistic thing of what the brain is up to. Stimulation and ennui are a part of it, you go from one to the other and there are physical consequences obviously. Ennui isn't simply boredom either but I won't go into it now.
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Re your surgeon friend, a connection with the UK police pension scheme. It used to be a brilliant scheme - very generous. How could this be afforded? Well it seems that a disproportional number of police did not last too long in retirement. Research suggested heart problems due to years of adrenaline overdosing. As we all know adrenaline is the fight or flight hormone, but the poor bloody coppers who would get many times the number of adrenaline spurts than the average Joe, rarely get to fight or run away, so a lot of unused adrenaline coursing through the body countless times. Well that’s the theory anyway. Co-incidentally since there has been greater understanding of health and well being in the workplace, the pension scheme has been changed for the worse …
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@Catogrande said in Mental Illness.:
Re your surgeon friend, a connection with the UK police pension scheme. It used to be a brilliant scheme - very generous. How could this be afforded? Well it seems that a disproportional number of police did not last too long in retirement. Research suggested heart problems due to years of adrenaline overdosing. As we all know adrenaline is the fight or flight hormone, but the poor bloody coppers who would get many times the number of adrenaline spurts than the average Joe, rarely get to fight or run away, so a lot of unused adrenaline coursing through the body countless times. Well that’s the theory anyway. Co-incidentally since there has been greater understanding of health and well being in the workplace, the pension scheme has been changed for the worse …
Sadly, that’s basic maths.
That’s why retirement ages pushes up. It’s the right thing to do.
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@Catogrande said in Mental Illness.:
Research suggested heart problems due to years of adrenaline overdosing. As we all know adrenaline is the fight or flight hormone, but the poor bloody coppers who would get many times the number of adrenaline spurts than the average Joe, rarely get to fight or run away, so a lot of unused adrenaline coursing through the body.
Interesting, thanks. I wonder if I sometimes have more adrenaline since I've taken up motorcycling 10 or so years ago.
I'd heard it's a good thing to increase/maintain adrenaline as you get older, but never realised a drop-off can cause problems. Might be a factor in my feeling pretty crap in the winter months when I don't ride or herd the stray cows from my field. Will need to discuss with my cardiologist neighbour- good excuse for a beer anyway.
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@Catogrande Interesting one about the cops and makes perfect sense. Chronic as opposed to acute stressors come into it as well, some of both can be good for us, too much bad. It's all very complicated and everybody is different yet again. A slightly related QI thing about adrenaline is the massive amounts released by sudden abstinence from alcohol by heavy drinkers. Same results as being discussed, very bad for the heart. So, if any of you piss heads decide to just suddenly stop, do it wisely.
Edit: I should add that some of the discussion has mentioned heart "attacks" which isn't necessarily the case. Heart "failure" can be the outcome, so cardio myopathy or suchlike, rather than cardio infarction type thing. There is also atrial flutter or fibrillation which can result. Again a bit complicated and one size doesn't fit all.
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Some really interesting info about early death after retirement. Could it also be in combination with certain people becoming too comfortable in retirement? By that I mean more drinking and endulging and less exercise? A rapid shift in that direction after 30-40 odd years is bound to have an impact.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel that'd be more likely in someone that has done a more physical job I expect?
My old man has been retired for a year now after 40+ years doing the same hard physical job (even now id say his grip and arm strength is still superior to mine)...his health in the past 5 has really deteriorated and I said he'd need to really up the walking and other leisure activities after he retired, sadly his health is affecting his ability to do exactly that.
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@taniwharugby said in Mental Illness.:
@Rancid-Schnitzel that'd be more likely in someone that has done a more physical job I expect?
My old man has been retired for a year now after 40+ years doing the same hard physical job (even now id say his grip and arm strength is still superior to mine)...his health in the past 5 has really deteriorated and I said he'd need to really up the walking and other leisure activities after he retired, sadly his health is affecting his ability to do exactly that.
It would apply to anyone who goes from a highly regimented, pressurised and disciplined existence to the complete opposite.
I think your old man is a common story. My dad aged alot in his first year of retirement but that was because he was spending much of the year living in a flat in Germany. Once he got home to his usual routine he was much better. He does the Suduko every day and always has an activity to do. That's the key I reckon. If he'd just hit the pub and watched TV I don't think he'd be with us any longer.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel my parents have been cruising around NZ for the past 9 months in a caravan, but many places they have gone, he hasn't been able to see properly as he physically cannot walk far enough when walking was required.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Mental Illness.:
It would apply to anyone who goes from a highly regimented, pressurised and disciplined existence to the complete opposite.
Yep. Throw in rigorous medical standards to be met every year, severe restrictions on alcohol intake, etc, (in my case anyway). Remove all that and very easy to do this:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Mental Illness.:
more drinking and endulging and less exercise? A rapid shift in that direction after 30-40 odd years is bound to have an impact.
With the cops there is doughnut withdrawal issues as well.
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@Snowy said in Mental Illness.:
With the cops there is doughnut withdrawal issues as well.
Donuts are so last century. It's McDonalds and coffee now.
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There was a book about 10 - 15 years ago called something like "Don't retire and stay alive".
They weren't literally advocating working full time until death. More to avoid the full time -> sudden full stop approach.
Vague memory of one of the analogies; full time work to full stop and rapid decline/potential sudden death was a version of the way some students and teachers at exam times avoid most of the colds and flu.... right up until the first week of their relaxing holidays when... ACHOO!
Not a universal experience of course, but the gist is there.
Think the idea of the book was to find a purpose beyond only "play a bit more golf".
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@Donsteppa @taniwharugby @Rancid-Schnitzel
I’ve seen it and had anecdotal “evidence” in my work (financial planning), that retirement can be a killer. Those who have a plan or a purpose - something to get them up in the morning, are the ones that tend to live a long and happy retirement. Those that have the attitude of “that’s me done, I’m gonna put my feet up” with no plan are the ones that are dead in 6 months. There is of course the correlation of the former tend to have provided well, whilst the latter have relied on their pension only to find it doesn’t stretch that far. Particularly relevant when you have much more time to fill.
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@MajorRage said in Mental Illness.:
@Catogrande said in Mental Illness.:
Re your surgeon friend, a connection with the UK police pension scheme. It used to be a brilliant scheme - very generous. How could this be afforded? Well it seems that a disproportional number of police did not last too long in retirement. Research suggested heart problems due to years of adrenaline overdosing. As we all know adrenaline is the fight or flight hormone, but the poor bloody coppers who would get many times the number of adrenaline spurts than the average Joe, rarely get to fight or run away, so a lot of unused adrenaline coursing through the body countless times. Well that’s the theory anyway. Co-incidentally since there has been greater understanding of health and well being in the workplace, the pension scheme has been changed for the worse …
Sadly, that’s basic maths.
That’s why retirement ages pushes up. It’s the right thing to do.
In Oz the introduction of the aged pension was at a time when the average life expectancy was less than the qualifying age. It's laughable that it didn't track over the decades.
With one glaring proviso - no one can keep being a labourer in their 70s.
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@Donsteppa said in Mental Illness.:
There was a book about 10 - 15 years ago called something like "Don't retire and stay alive".
Cheers. I'll have a look at that. "Avoid retirement and stay alive" apparently. Author has a very unfortunate name to be taken seriously - Bogan. There is some research behind what he says by the looks of it and the Fern has come to the same conclusion above, which is completely contrary to our ethos and somewhat worrying (both reaching a consensus and a conclusion, which leads me to believe that it is wrong).
@Donsteppa said in Mental Illness.:
Think the idea of the book was to find a purpose beyond only "play a bit more golf".
Definitely this. I never retired, I own a business and built a house, but it's not the same as an actual job, so "hi ho, hi ho, it's..." again. Fortunate to have done everything young enough to do that.
From psychology today:
"In a world in which work has become our supreme value, being without work marginalizes you and deprives you of the experiences that make you relevant to others - and to yourself. Work keeps you on your toes, and stretches you to accomplish goals that matter."Personally, I don't fear the reaper I've invited him to dinner and shaken hands a few times, but withering away just isn't me. Being an invalid (tried that, briefly) or losing my marbles scares the shit out of me. So full on activity and stimulation until I shuffle off this mortal coil is the way to go.
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@Snowy said in Mental Illness.:
So full on activity and stimulation until I shuffle off this mortal coil is the way to go.>
This thread now has me mildly concerned. I thought I had it all figured out but it seems I need to ease into retirement or I'll pop my clogs.
i do need constant stimulus. Not one to sit still, constantly doing three things at once. Might be more of a challenge that I thought this retirement thing.
Point is @NTA mentioned above how those who have had a lifetime of hard physical labour are knackered by 65. I think the same can be true in any role, depending on how much you put into it. I did probably 30 years of 65+ hours week. Last little while I've pegged this back to 50 odd. It's not physical but it's still challenging on the body. Plus most of that time I've been responsible for profitability and the livelihood of up to a couple of hundred staff. I'm just tired.
If work offered me any fresh challenges, I'd be more than keen, but the same old grind. Fuck off.
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@dogmeat Change not retirement then?
@dogmeat said in Mental Illness.:
Might be more of a challenge that I thought this retirement thing.
It sure does require a hell of a lot more thought than most of us have put into it. We put so much effort into careers and so little into what comes afterwards (and yet it could be another 30 years).
