All Blacks 2025
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@Grooter He's not far away - made the AB's XV last year.
But, it's a tough row to hoe in the loose forwards.
I've picked six - Savea, Sititi, Blackadder, Frizell, Finau, Papalií
But, the you've got, Jacobson, Lakai, Sotutu, Lio-Willie, Haig, Parker, Kirifi, Grace and whomever else you want to throw in that's been mentioned in the thread that I've forgotten. Frizz might not be back.
Since when has he achieved such levels of Richie Mounganess ?
One excellent test against the Boks and some inconsistency apart from that doesn't really justify it.
You're welcome to pick your own team.
I reckon if Frizz is back he'll be close.
@Canes4life said - Most of the ABs atm aren’t automatic selections
I reckon at least 75% are - and Razor said this week that they're about 90% there (or something similar).
So let's mark me when they pick their team.
I think if the ABs were selected tomorrow this would be pretty close to what they select IMO. Note, I’ve picked 34 players.
Props:
- Williams
- Lomax
- Tosi
- Newell
- De Groot
- Bower
Hookers:
- Taylor
- Taukei’aho
- Aumua
Locks:
- Darry/Holland
- Barrett
- Tuipolotu
- Va’ai
Loose forwards:
- Sititi
- Savea
- Finau
- Jacobsen
- Lakai
- Blackadder/Papali’i/Kirifi - take your pick.
Halfbacks:
- Roigard
- Ratima
- Hotham/Preston
First fives:
- Barrett
- McKenzie
Centres:
- Barrett - can cover fullback
- Proctor
- Havili
- Ioane - can cover wing
- Leinert-Brown / Tupaea
Outside backs:
- Clarke
- Jordan
- Love
- Narawa
- Reece
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@Grooter He's not far away - made the AB's XV last year.
But, it's a tough row to hoe in the loose forwards.
I've picked six - Savea, Sititi, Blackadder, Frizell, Finau, Papalií
But, the you've got, Jacobson, Lakai, Sotutu, Lio-Willie, Haig, Parker, Kirifi, Grace and whomever else you want to throw in that's been mentioned in the thread that I've forgotten. Frizz might not be back.
Since when has he achieved such levels of Richie Mounganess ?
One excellent test against the Boks and some inconsistency apart from that doesn't really justify it.
You're welcome to pick your own team.
I reckon if Frizz is back he'll be close.
@Canes4life said - Most of the ABs atm aren’t automatic selections
I reckon at least 75% are - and Razor said this week that they're about 90% there (or something similar).
So let's mark me when they pick their team.
I think if the ABs were selected tomorrow this would be pretty close to what they select IMO. Note, I’ve picked 34 players.
Props:
- Williams
- Lomax
- Tosi
- Newell
- De Groot
- Bower
Hookers:
- Taylor
- Taukei’aho
- Aumua
Locks:
- Darry/Holland
- Barrett
- Tuipolotu
- Va’ai
Loose forwards:
- Sititi
- Savea
- Finau
- Jacobsen
- Lakai
- Blackadder/Papali’i/Kirifi - take your pick.
Halfbacks:
- Roigard
- Ratima
- Hotham/Preston
First fives:
- Barrett
- McKenzie
Centres:
- Barrett - can cover fullback
- Proctor
- Havili
- Ioane - can cover wing
- Leinert-Brown / Tupaea
Outside backs:
- Clarke
- Jordan
- Love
- Narawa
- Reece
You are very conservative. I think there will be one or two bolters.
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i find NZ rugby to be hyper insular and conservative.
We're overly focused on reducing risk over exploiting opportunity (see nearly every player chat being focused on errors rather than anything else), and we select everywhere as cover for disaster rather than a chance to add a positive.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
i find NZ rugby to be hyper insular and conservative.
We're overly focused on reducing risk over exploiting opportunity (see nearly every player chat being focused on errors rather than anything else), and we select everywhere as cover for disaster rather than a chance to add a positive.
See Cam Roigard's omission in RWC final.
He had the hot hand ala Milner Skudder in 2015, and had skinned 6 or 7 Springboks from a standing start from 55m out only a month earlier.
His selection would have left their players second guessing themselves and watching their inside shoulders on D.
A massive mistake from Foster.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@Grooter He's not far away - made the AB's XV last year.
But, it's a tough row to hoe in the loose forwards.
I've picked six - Savea, Sititi, Blackadder, Frizell, Finau, Papalií
But, the you've got, Jacobson, Lakai, Sotutu, Lio-Willie, Haig, Parker, Kirifi, Grace and whomever else you want to throw in that's been mentioned in the thread that I've forgotten. Frizz might not be back.
Since when has he achieved such levels of Richie Mounganess ?
One excellent test against the Boks and some inconsistency apart from that doesn't really justify it.
You're welcome to pick your own team.
I reckon if Frizz is back he'll be close.
@Canes4life said - Most of the ABs atm aren’t automatic selections
I reckon at least 75% are - and Razor said this week that they're about 90% there (or something similar).
So let's mark me when they pick their team.
I think if the ABs were selected tomorrow this would be pretty close to what they select IMO. Note, I’ve picked 34 players.
Props:
- Williams
- Lomax
- Tosi
- Newell
- De Groot
- Bower
Hookers:
- Taylor
- Taukei’aho
- Aumua
Locks:
- Darry/Holland
- Barrett
- Tuipolotu
- Va’ai
Loose forwards:
- Sititi
- Savea
- Finau
- Jacobsen
- Lakai
- Blackadder/Papali’i/Kirifi - take your pick.
Halfbacks:
- Roigard
- Ratima
- Hotham/Preston
First fives:
- Barrett
- McKenzie
Centres:
- Barrett - can cover fullback
- Proctor
- Havili
- Ioane - can cover wing
- Leinert-Brown / Tupaea
Outside backs:
- Clarke
- Jordan
- Love
- Narawa
- Reece
@Canes4life I think that's very close, but I think Holland and Tupaea will be in the squad.
I also think Leroy Carter might make it.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
i find NZ rugby to be hyper insular and conservative.
We're overly focused on reducing risk over exploiting opportunity (see nearly every player chat being focused on errors rather than anything else), and we select everywhere as cover for disaster rather than a chance to add a positive.
See Cam Roigard's omission in RWC final.
He had the hot hand ala Milner Skudder in 2015, and had skinned 6 or 7 Springboks from a standing start from 55m out only a month earlier.
His selection would have left their players second guessing themselves and watching their inside shoulders on D.
A massive mistake from Foster.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
See Cam Roigard's omission in RWC final.
He had the hot hand ala Milner Skudder in 2015, and had skinned 6 or 7 Springboks from a standing start from 55m out only a month earlier.
He came on fresh at 73 minutes when the Boks were something like 35 points up and had pretty much switched off. Extrapolating that 7 minutes into how he would have won the RWC final is a bit fanciful.
I rate the guy, he had a good RWC and he's probbly my no.1, but he hasn't exactly set the world on fire a la Twickenham '23 since, nor nailed down the 9 spot quite yet. And let's hope he isn't another NMS career-length wise...
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I regret the times when the AB forwards did not have to achieve parity to allow the backs to win the games. With minimal possession, the likes of Carter, Nonu, Conrad and Ben Smith, J. Savea were talented enough to score tries at will. Good times.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I am genuinely curious, what do these "bold" selections actually look like? Wallace Sititi and Pasilio Tosi were both very bold picks.
See, for me this is concerning. We've got so used to mediocrity that selecting absolute stand out form players and only getting them on the field if injury strikes, is considered very bold.
Sititi showed good form, but hardly put in a body of work that said he was an All Black for the here and now. As for Tosi - was he on anyone's radar?
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I am genuinely curious, what do these "bold" selections actually look like? Wallace Sititi and Pasilio Tosi were both very bold picks.
See, for me this is concerning. We've got so used to mediocrity that selecting absolute stand out form players and only getting them on the field if injury strikes, is considered very bold.
Sititi showed good form, but hardly put in a body of work that said he was an All Black for the here and now. As for Tosi - was he on anyone's radar?
Sititi's performance in the semi final vs the Canes was about as obvious of a 'pick me I'm All Black material' as it gets - he was the best player on the field by a country mile.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
See Cam Roigard's omission in RWC final.
He had the hot hand ala Milner Skudder in 2015, and had skinned 6 or 7 Springboks from a standing start from 55m out only a month earlier.
He came on fresh at 73 minutes when the Boks were something like 35 points up and had pretty much switched off. Extrapolating that 7 minutes into how he would have won the RWC final is a bit fanciful.
I rate the guy, he had a good RWC and he's probbly my no.1, but he hasn't exactly set the world on fire a la Twickenham '23 since, nor nailed down the 9 spot quite yet. And let's hope he isn't another NMS career-length wise...
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
See Cam Roigard's omission in RWC final.
He had the hot hand ala Milner Skudder in 2015, and had skinned 6 or 7 Springboks from a standing start from 55m out only a month earlier.
He came on fresh at 73 minutes when the Boks were something like 35 points up and had pretty much switched off. Extrapolating that 7 minutes into how he would have won the RWC final is a bit fanciful.
I rate the guy, he had a good RWC and he's probbly my no.1, but he hasn't exactly set the world on fire a la Twickenham '23 since nor nailed down the 9 spot quite yet. And let's hope he isn't another NMS career-length wise...
Roigard would have definitely been a better bet than Christie but as you say the Boks were mentally at the pub by that stage of the match
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
See Cam Roigard's omission in RWC final.
He had the hot hand ala Milner Skudder in 2015, and had skinned 6 or 7 Springboks from a standing start from 55m out only a month earlier.
He came on fresh at 73 minutes when the Boks were something like 35 points up and had pretty much switched off. Extrapolating that 7 minutes into how he would have won the RWC final is a bit fanciful.
I rate the guy, he had a good RWC and he's probbly my no.1, but he hasn't exactly set the world on fire a la Twickenham '23 since, nor nailed down the 9 spot quite yet. And let's hope he isn't another NMS career-length wise...
@Victor-Meldrew
The biggest mistake by far over the last 5 years has been the ridiculous conservatism of the AB coaches. They ignored form and favoured the incumbents -
I regret the times when the AB forwards did not have to achieve parity to allow the backs to win the games. With minimal possession, the likes of Carter, Nonu, Conrad and Ben Smith, J. Savea were talented enough to score tries at will. Good times.
@cgrant Roigard DMac Love Proctor Jordan Clarke Ratima Plenty of firepower there
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@Victor-Meldrew
The biggest mistake by far over the last 5 years has been the ridiculous conservatism of the AB coaches. They ignored form and favoured the incumbents@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew
The biggest mistake by far over the last 5 years has been the ridiculous conservatism of the AB coaches. They ignored form and favoured the incumbentsnonsense. Havilli and Blackadder just need more time in the jersey to feel at home and really shine.
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I think we have the players to take us through to the next WC in Australia
My biggest concern is captaincy
I think Savea should be captain -
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@Grooter He's not far away - made the AB's XV last year.
But, it's a tough row to hoe in the loose forwards.
I've picked six - Savea, Sititi, Blackadder, Frizell, Finau, Papalií
But, the you've got, Jacobson, Lakai, Sotutu, Lio-Willie, Haig, Parker, Kirifi, Grace and whomever else you want to throw in that's been mentioned in the thread that I've forgotten. Frizz might not be back.
Since when has he achieved such levels of Richie Mounganess ?
One excellent test against the Boks and some inconsistency apart from that doesn't really justify it.
You're welcome to pick your own team.
I reckon if Frizz is back he'll be close.
@Canes4life said - Most of the ABs atm aren’t automatic selections
I reckon at least 75% are - and Razor said this week that they're about 90% there (or something similar).
So let's mark me when they pick their team.
I think if the ABs were selected tomorrow this would be pretty close to what they select IMO. Note, I’ve picked 34 players.
Props:
- Williams
- Lomax
- Tosi
- Newell
- De Groot
- Bower
Hookers:
- Taylor
- Taukei’aho
- Aumua
Locks:
- Darry/Holland
- Barrett
- Tuipolotu
- Va’ai
Loose forwards:
- Sititi
- Savea
- Finau
- Jacobsen
- Lakai
- Blackadder/Papali’i/Kirifi - take your pick.
Halfbacks:
- Roigard
- Ratima
- Hotham/Preston
First fives:
- Barrett
- McKenzie
Centres:
- Barrett - can cover fullback
- Proctor
- Havili
- Ioane - can cover wing
- Leinert-Brown / Tupaea
Outside backs:
- Clarke
- Jordan
- Love
- Narawa
- Reece
You are very conservative. I think there will be one or two bolters.
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@Grooter He's not far away - made the AB's XV last year.
But, it's a tough row to hoe in the loose forwards.
I've picked six - Savea, Sititi, Blackadder, Frizell, Finau, Papalií
But, the you've got, Jacobson, Lakai, Sotutu, Lio-Willie, Haig, Parker, Kirifi, Grace and whomever else you want to throw in that's been mentioned in the thread that I've forgotten. Frizz might not be back.
Since when has he achieved such levels of Richie Mounganess ?
One excellent test against the Boks and some inconsistency apart from that doesn't really justify it.
You're welcome to pick your own team.
I reckon if Frizz is back he'll be close.
@Canes4life said - Most of the ABs atm aren’t automatic selections
I reckon at least 75% are - and Razor said this week that they're about 90% there (or something similar).
So let's mark me when they pick their team.
I think if the ABs were selected tomorrow this would be pretty close to what they select IMO. Note, I’ve picked 34 players.
Props:
- Williams
- Lomax
- Tosi
- Newell
- De Groot
- Bower
Hookers:
- Taylor
- Taukei’aho
- Aumua
Locks:
- Darry/Holland
- Barrett
- Tuipolotu
- Va’ai
Loose forwards:
- Sititi
- Savea
- Finau
- Jacobsen
- Lakai
- Blackadder/Papali’i/Kirifi - take your pick.
Halfbacks:
- Roigard
- Ratima
- Hotham/Preston
First fives:
- Barrett
- McKenzie
Centres:
- Barrett - can cover fullback
- Proctor
- Havili
- Ioane - can cover wing
- Leinert-Brown / Tupaea
Outside backs:
- Clarke
- Jordan
- Love
- Narawa
- Reece
You are very conservative. I think there will be one or two bolters.
I'm sure there will be but I don't think the coaches will sway too far from what they selected last year. They will want to build on last year with a lot of players they selected in 2024.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I am genuinely curious, what do these "bold" selections actually look like? Wallace Sititi and Pasilio Tosi were both very bold picks.
See, for me this is concerning. We've got so used to mediocrity that selecting absolute stand out form players and only getting them on the field if injury strikes, is considered very bold.
Sititi showed good form, but hardly put in a body of work that said he was an All Black for the here and now. As for Tosi - was he on anyone's radar?
Sititi's performance in the semi final vs the Canes was about as obvious of a 'pick me I'm All Black material' as it gets - he was the best player on the field by a country mile.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I am genuinely curious, what do these "bold" selections actually look like? Wallace Sititi and Pasilio Tosi were both very bold picks.
See, for me this is concerning. We've got so used to mediocrity that selecting absolute stand out form players and only getting them on the field if injury strikes, is considered very bold.
Sititi showed good form, but hardly put in a body of work that said he was an All Black for the here and now. As for Tosi - was he on anyone's radar?
Sititi's performance in the semi final vs the Canes was about as obvious of a 'pick me I'm All Black material' as it gets - he was the best player on the field by a country mile.
Yeah I remember thinking to myself in the stands watching that game 'who the fook is this guy' and why is he single handedly ruining our season.
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As I remember it, there was a lot of crowing on here about how good our loose forward depth was last year pre-AB season. Then our loosies, as a unit, were consistently owned by just about everyone as far down as Argentina.
That was with incumbent world player of the year Savea and soon-to-be breakout player of the year Sititi. And generally the tighties weren't too bad either - in fact no individual was playing really that badly - the balance was just wrong.
The backs were a bit shit though. Pattern or players, whatever - if the players you pick can't play the pattern you want that's still a selection issue. Are we really going to suffer through another Beauden-Jordie-Ioane 'hi we're the backline for the world's greatest team but none of us can actually pass' year? Roigard better pick his act up too, based on his last game he'd just about make that list of can run can't pass. -
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I am genuinely curious, what do these "bold" selections actually look like? Wallace Sititi and Pasilio Tosi were both very bold picks.
See, for me this is concerning. We've got so used to mediocrity that selecting absolute stand out form players and only getting them on the field if injury strikes, is considered very bold.
Sititi showed good form, but hardly put in a body of work that said he was an All Black for the here and now. As for Tosi - was he on anyone's radar?
Sititi's performance in the semi final vs the Canes was about as obvious of a 'pick me I'm All Black material' as it gets - he was the best player on the field by a country mile.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I am genuinely curious, what do these "bold" selections actually look like? Wallace Sititi and Pasilio Tosi were both very bold picks.
See, for me this is concerning. We've got so used to mediocrity that selecting absolute stand out form players and only getting them on the field if injury strikes, is considered very bold.
Sititi showed good form, but hardly put in a body of work that said he was an All Black for the here and now. As for Tosi - was he on anyone's radar?
Sititi's performance in the semi final vs the Canes was about as obvious of a 'pick me I'm All Black material' as it gets - he was the best player on the field by a country mile.
Sure, but I'd wager he was probably already in the squad before that game. I don't think a guy gets picked for the ABs based off one game.
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look, guys like Jacobson, Havili and Blackadder are really good rugby players. On top of this, Blackadder aside, they are showing good domestic form.
My problem is, they have shown domestic form before, only to go on and prove to not be needle movers at test level. So why pick them again? what is the point? They're not different players this year, they are the same players in the same form. Picking them because experience and cover is about as conservative as you can get. They should be replaced by the new guys to see if they can be difference makers.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I am genuinely curious, what do these "bold" selections actually look like? Wallace Sititi and Pasilio Tosi were both very bold picks.
See, for me this is concerning. We've got so used to mediocrity that selecting absolute stand out form players and only getting them on the field if injury strikes, is considered very bold.
Sititi showed good form, but hardly put in a body of work that said he was an All Black for the here and now. As for Tosi - was he on anyone's radar?
Sititi's performance in the semi final vs the Canes was about as obvious of a 'pick me I'm All Black material' as it gets - he was the best player on the field by a country mile.
Sure, but I'd wager he was probably already in the squad before that game. I don't think a guy gets picked for the ABs based off one game.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I am genuinely curious, what do these "bold" selections actually look like? Wallace Sititi and Pasilio Tosi were both very bold picks.
See, for me this is concerning. We've got so used to mediocrity that selecting absolute stand out form players and only getting them on the field if injury strikes, is considered very bold.
Sititi showed good form, but hardly put in a body of work that said he was an All Black for the here and now. As for Tosi - was he on anyone's radar?
Sititi's performance in the semi final vs the Canes was about as obvious of a 'pick me I'm All Black material' as it gets - he was the best player on the field by a country mile.
Sure, but I'd wager he was probably already in the squad before that game. I don't think a guy gets picked for the ABs based off one game.
It's hard for me to comment on that, maybe a Chiefs fan can shed some light, but I don't recall him playing the house down before that game. I also remember Razor saying in an interview when the initial squad was selected that a couple players shone in the playoffs that caught his eye, so to me that means Sititi made a late claim and was picked after ignore based on his block busting game against the Canes. Any excuse not to pick Sotutu as well was probably a factor and also don't forget Brayden Iose was also in the conversation after a big season before Sititi completely outplayed him.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I am genuinely curious, what do these "bold" selections actually look like? Wallace Sititi and Pasilio Tosi were both very bold picks.
See, for me this is concerning. We've got so used to mediocrity that selecting absolute stand out form players and only getting them on the field if injury strikes, is considered very bold.
Sititi showed good form, but hardly put in a body of work that said he was an All Black for the here and now. As for Tosi - was he on anyone's radar?
Sititi's performance in the semi final vs the Canes was about as obvious of a 'pick me I'm All Black material' as it gets - he was the best player on the field by a country mile.
Sure, but I'd wager he was probably already in the squad before that game. I don't think a guy gets picked for the ABs based off one game.
It's hard for me to comment on that, maybe a Chiefs fan can shed some light, but I don't recall him playing the house down before that game. I also remember Razor saying in an interview when the initial squad was selected that a couple players shone in the playoffs that caught his eye, so to me that means Sititi made a late claim and was picked after ignore based on his block busting game against the Canes. Any excuse not to pick Sotutu as well was probably a factor and also don't forget Brayden Iose was also in the conversation after a big season before Sititi completely outplayed him.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
based on his block busting game against the Canes. ... Iose ...
I detect a pattern
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Sititi signs on through to the WC, great news for NZ Rugby.
