All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
Def agree with your premise on developing players over time (see Tupou Vaa'i). And while Akira was treated badly by Hansen but he had more opportunists than many under Foster but never quite kicked on.
Robertson and co. may have missed a trick last year with him, but we'll never know
And neither did Blackadder and Frizell yet one is an insta pick when fit and the other one is being courted constantly by the Tubby coach despite the fact he is in Japan and a shitty human.
Akira was given about an equal chance by Foster vs Frizellm then they chose Frizell. He was going overseas before Robertson announced a squad. And apparently shitty humans is the way forward anyway.
Blackadder still hasn't played as many games for the ABs as Akira did - so you could argue he hasn't had as much of a chance yet..Frizell clearly got more opportunities than Akira, otherwise how else would he have failed so spectacularly in a RWC final? Akira wasn't there. My response was to a comment saying he had more opportunists (sic) than others.
You're being a bit disingenuous about the number of games Blackadder has played, he's an insta pick in AB squads when not injured, he's just injured frequently.
I think you're being disingenuous about Frizell vs Ioane. They were clearly both auditioning for the 6 role at the world cup, and there was heaps of debate about it on here - and Ioane wasn't compellingly better. We weren't playing well with either of them there - but even you would have to admit that Frizz played one really good game in that period, where he was the player they wanted him to be. Prior to them making the call, the opportunities given would have been similar I reckon. After they made the call, of course Frizell played more games. That he was a bit shit in the WC after that doesn't change the fact that Ioane and he shared the 6 jersey in the lead-up before they settled on him.
I find the Blackadder hate weird - he's a good player, hasn't let anyone down whenever he's been fit to play and hasn't had the opportunity for an extended run - and he was picked by the previous coaches, it's not like he's a Fihaki. It's also not like we're not picking McCaw instead of him, all we're missing out on in the squad is just whichever poster's parochial favourite medium good loosie.Frizell had that one good game you mentioned (we all know about it because it was mentioned ad nauseam on here before he reverted to type). And yes you're right the previous selectors chose him, therefore he got more opportunities, thats not disingenuous, it's just a fact.
As @canefan notes no one hates Blackadder, not thinking he's good enough, and thinking he is unfairly favoured isn't hate. Although, I think Blackadder would have acquitted himself better than the Tongan Thug in the RWC final.
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I kind of feel loosies getting penalties means theyre getting into the game, i would slightly prefer it than being anonymous...as long as it doesnt persist, go out and be a menace...but settle
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I can sympathise to a degree but most of our players including our loose forwards don't get penalised more than once in a game.
For example in the Irish game we won these were the penalties:
2 Vaa'i
1 JB
1 Savea
1 CaneIn the French game there were 7 penalties against us. No player had more than 1 penalty.
So in those two games we had an average of 6 penalties. Which is the same amount that Blackadder and Sititi gave away in the game against Argentina. And those were on top of the 6 other penalties other players gave away against Argentina.
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Yeah Sititi had a shocker off the bench that game and was only brought in after that due to injuries, all the talk of the coaches "identifying his talent and developing it" are largely horseshit. They chucked him in the deep end and hoped like hell he'd swim because they had no one else (due to their own making). They were extraordinarily lucky that he stepped up the way he did, there was every chance he'd have another poor game and have his confidence shot to shit as a complete rookie. But then at the same time we were playing two 8s and a 7 with no 6, so lost the ruck battle every time.
Razor's ideas on what constitutes a balanced trio may have worked 20 years ago when he was still playing, but it sure as shit doesn't work in the modern game.
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As an aside, I have Sititi penciled in as a future AB captain. Outside of his obvious talent, he's a seriously impressive young man
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@No-Quarter Interesting question. When we say Razor's idea on what constitutes a balanced trio, do we actually know what this looks like?
The only reason why I say this, is because Finau was the first option at the start of last year, and then was dropped because he didn't perform. They are seemingly chasing Frizell also - both of those guys are 1.9m+ big bastards.
Even you look at his Crusaders sides. Barring 2023, Cullen Grace was a consistent starter - big dude, and by all accounts, had it not been for injuries, Dom Gardiner was another one they liked. In 2022, Grace and Pablo Matera were often deployed together. Prior to that, Kieran Read was obviously the eight, but even a guy like Whetu Douglas was well thought of by Razor - all big dudes.
I think it is entirely possible, that Razor is looking for a big brute to play six, but they don't currently believe they have a guy to do it, so tweaked the gameplan. Have a look at the 6s/8s picked for the NZ XV. They weren't .5s outside of CLW. Haig, Parker, Flanders - even Sotutu (withdrew with injury). I think the long-term vision was always for Sititi to play 8. Ardie was at 8 last year, because they wanted to play Cane.
Parker, Ardie, Sititi, Lakai, CLW & 2 out of Papalii, Jacobson and Blackadder. Papalii is a like for like for Cane, so if they want that option in the squad, then he stays in. If they are looking for a brute on the blindside, Jacobson could be in trouble.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@canefan Robertson has only been coach for one season mate, and according to Mauss' blindside thread it went like this:
Finau, Finau, Jacobson, Blackadder, Blackadder, Blackadder, Sititi, Sititi, Sititi, Finau, Sititi, Sititi, Finau, Sititi.He started 3 tests in a row - after Finau and Jacobson didn't play the house down - then was injured and didn't start another. What you're saying just isn't correct.
He was probably injured for the first three.
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@frugby said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@No-Quarter Interesting question. When we say Razor's idea on what constitutes a balanced trio, do we actually know what this looks like?
I think the long-term vision was always for Sititi to play 8. Ardie was at 8 last year, because they wanted to play Cane.Parker, Ardie, Sititi, Lakai, CLW & 2 out of Papalii, Jacobson and Blackadder. Papalii is a like for like for Cane, so if they want that option in the squad, then he stays in. If they are looking for a brute on the blindside, Jacobson could be in trouble.
I'm a 1 out of 3 for EB/DP/LJ.
I don't really see what Lakai adds other than youth.
I don't think Parker has done quite enough. Potential, yeah.
I think Sititi was picked as a young back-up 8 - maybe a long term vision - to Savea who was always going to play 80, and only got a run at all through Finau and Jacobson not standing out, then Blackadder being injured. Even with Cane not available they wouldn't shift Savea to 7 - surely that changes now though. I'm not actually sure Sititi is big enough to play 8 without a bruiser at 6 - and we don't have one.
Ardie is the best 7 in the country. Kirifi is #2.
Sotutu is the best 8 in the country. Sititi is #2 if he gets back to form.
6 is a shitshow. Blackadder if you want workrate, Finau if you want wide running power, Parker if you want tight grunt. Sititi if he isn't playing 8.
Fuck knows. I don't even know what I want, let alone what that silly combover fluffybunny wants. -
One thing not really discussed here is even what the hell is EB's best position, or Jacobson.
It seems unfair to move them around, and maybe we should just stick with a specialist 6. Sure they can both do that but LJ seems to be permanently moved because of his utility value and if you want a big bruising 6, I just don't think EB's body can take it. So it's not saying he/they are crap players but an argument they're being done a disservice (well actually LJ can play all 3 positions but he's kind of turned into a swinging door at international level). Whoever they choose I hope they bed them in ,and try to establish decent combinations. -
Jacobson feels like an ideal bench option - can play all three positions, very Masoe like.
The problem is that's literally an entire generation of rugby ago. The current replacement laws and their implementation by SA have shown that you may as well stack your bench with 6 forward replacements, so all-rounders are less and less important.
And, in other news:
"We're just making sure we get our combinations right, like who can play in two positions. What will help us win those three tests ... how do we manage those positions, combinations - that's been our work at the moment."
Razor, ODT, May 2024
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Luke Jacobson has never been given a proper starting run for the All Blacks - he's largely been thrown scraps against average teams when the whole side is rotated or asked to come off the bench, which isn't really his strength. I wouldn't mind seeing him get some proper minutes in one position.
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@Smuts said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Sticking a seriously out of date and uninformed oar in, but Jacobson, Sititi, Ardie was the combo I was afraid Robertson might discover by accident.
Can’t pretend to explain why but that felt like it would have the right workrate to flash balance
It might not be out of date, Robertson has said very nice things about LJ in the past and Ardie has proven he's quite decent still at 7.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Luke Jacobson has never been given a proper starting run for the All Blacks
Also, he hasn't started that often in his better positions (8 or 7). I don't think LJ is a 6, and he never plays there for the Chiefs.
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I like Jacobson, but position is a real problem for me.
He isn't fast enough or a good enough support runner, or quite good enough over the ball to be my ideal 7. I think Savea and Kirifi are clear as my 1&2 there.
At 8, he isn't the ball runner I want. Sotutu, Sititi, Lakai, Lio-Willie, Savea are all better.
At 6, he isn't the lineout target I'd like - which can be mitigated if they pick Sotutu. But if we go down the workrate 6 path, then he's not as involved as EB or DP. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
I like Jacobson, but position is a real problem for me.
He isn't fast enough or a good enough support runner, or quite good enough over the ball to be my ideal 7. I think Savea and Kirifi are clear as my 1&2 there.
At 8, he isn't the ball runner I want. Sotutu, Sititi, Lakai, Lio-Willie, Savea are all better.
At 6, he isn't the lineout target I'd like - which can be mitigated if they pick Sotutu. But if we go down the workrate 6 path, then he's not as involved as EB or DP.he is a big hitter though isn't he ? hardest shoulder in super Rugby or some nonsense like that.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
I like Jacobson, but position is a real problem for me.
He isn't fast enough or a good enough support runner, or quite good enough over the ball to be my ideal 7. I think Savea and Kirifi are clear as my 1&2 there.
At 8, he isn't the ball runner I want. Sotutu, Sititi, Lakai, Lio-Willie, Savea are all better.
At 6, he isn't the lineout target I'd like - which can be mitigated if they pick Sotutu. But if we go down the workrate 6 path, then he's not as involved as EB or DP.he is a big hitter though isn't he ? hardest shoulder in super Rugby or some nonsense like that.
Yep, he's a good, accurate, hard tackler.
I was surprised to see that he hasn't actually make a lot of what are classed as dominant tackles this year though, I assume because he doesn't get up quick and hit people behind the advantage line? Less than Parker, Finau, Blackadder, Savea, Lakai, Withy, Kirifi etc. Dalton is right down the list too. Probably only shows that stats aren't everything.
Most of those guys (including DP but not Finau or Parker) have made more tackles per minute than Jacobson too.
