2025 All Blacks v France series
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@Kiwiwomble said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Nepia said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@hikastags said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Jordie's not quick, and he's not elusive. If most people could build a fullback in a lab, I reckon they'd build Christian Cullen - and Jordie most certainly isn't that.
Also it was the Chiefs back 3 who looked silly in what was largely a kicking battle on the weekend, not Will Jordan - he was dominant.Quick enough. Do you enjoy watching a 6ft 5 Jordie cart it up as a crash-ball 12 where the South Africans chew him up like nothing?
And no, it would be Jordie considering the kicking game in today's game.
We tried Jordie at fullback, we rightly moved him to 12.
If he wasn't a Barrett I'd say that Tupaea would have his spot at 12, and he'd likely be on the bench, especially after a rather quiet test year last year (regardless of what he's been doing in NH rugby). But he's Barrett so likely Quinn is watching from the sidelines and we all complain that we have a midfield that can't cart the ball in traffic despite the fact one of them is built like a lock.
was that though also a bit because we were weak in midfield? we were getting found out with the rush defence and thought a big ball player might help
I don't think it has to be zero sum.
@Nepia said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Kiwiwomble said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Nepia said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@hikastags said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Jordie's not quick, and he's not elusive. If most people could build a fullback in a lab, I reckon they'd build Christian Cullen - and Jordie most certainly isn't that.
Also it was the Chiefs back 3 who looked silly in what was largely a kicking battle on the weekend, not Will Jordan - he was dominant.Quick enough. Do you enjoy watching a 6ft 5 Jordie cart it up as a crash-ball 12 where the South Africans chew him up like nothing?
And no, it would be Jordie considering the kicking game in today's game.
We tried Jordie at fullback, we rightly moved him to 12.
If he wasn't a Barrett I'd say that Tupaea would have his spot at 12, and he'd likely be on the bench, especially after a rather quiet test year last year (regardless of what he's been doing in NH rugby). But he's Barrett so likely Quinn is watching from the sidelines and we all complain that we have a midfield that can't cart the ball in traffic despite the fact one of them is built like a lock.
was that though also a bit because we were weak in midfield? we were getting found out with the rush defence and thought a big ball player might help
I don't think it has to be zero sum.
i feel the use of the term "also a bit" suggested i also thought it was multi faceted
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I think Tavatavanawai is best used off of the bench - he runs sideways a lot - which you can get away with at Super level.
@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I think Tavatavanawai is best used off of the bench - he runs sideways a lot - which you can get away with at Super level.
What do you see as his best attribute in that role? Punching holes in tired defences? I only ask since I barely saw any Highlanders games so have no idea of his qualities.
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I think Tavatavanawai is best used off of the bench - he runs sideways a lot - which you can get away with at Super level.
@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I think Tavatavanawai is best used off of the bench - he runs sideways a lot - which you can get away with at Super level.
probably right, has the ability to either change the flow of a game or shut one down with his turnovers
@nonpartizan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I think Tavatavanawai is best used off of the bench - he runs sideways a lot - which you can get away with at Super level.
What do you see as his best attribute in that role? Punching holes in tired defences? I only ask since I barely saw any Highlanders games so have no idea of his qualities.
hes a strong runner although as has been pointed out probably doesnt have the top end speed...so more a ensure getting over the advantage line than running in tries from our own half, strong on defence and LOVES a turnover, strong stance over a ruck
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@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I think Tavatavanawai is best used off of the bench - he runs sideways a lot - which you can get away with at Super level.
What do you see as his best attribute in that role? Punching holes in tired defences? I only ask since I barely saw any Highlanders games so have no idea of his qualities.
His key metrics are defenders beaten, offloads, and turnovers won. He does run sideways a lot and we already have two of those as the main 10 option.
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@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I think Tavatavanawai is best used off of the bench - he runs sideways a lot - which you can get away with at Super level.
What do you see as his best attribute in that role? Punching holes in tired defences? I only ask since I barely saw any Highlanders games so have no idea of his qualities.
@nonpartizan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I think Tavatavanawai is best used off of the bench - he runs sideways a lot - which you can get away with at Super level.
What do you see as his best attribute in that role? Punching holes in tired defences? I only ask since I barely saw any Highlanders games so have no idea of his qualities.
Yeah he could be a real weapon late in games. Like having another loosie in relation to breakdown turnovers and against a tiring defence his pocket rocket style power could be very useful.
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@akan004 I don't know why the media bother asking Scott a single question. Every answer is meaningless word salad.
And tbh it looks like that's how he coaches too when you see what he's managed to do with our backline.
@antipodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@akan004 I don't know why the media bother asking Scott a single question. Every answer is meaningless word salad.
And tbh it looks like that's how he coaches too when you see what he's managed to do with our backline.
The only good one was the one with Millsy and Guy, the last one that I posted. He talks about why Blackadder was not selected. They don't think he's making enough of an impact, namely his post contact carry metres and a lack of dominant tackles. Sounds like he reads the fern.
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@hikastags said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Jordie's not quick, and he's not elusive. If most people could build a fullback in a lab, I reckon they'd build Christian Cullen - and Jordie most certainly isn't that.
Also it was the Chiefs back 3 who looked silly in what was largely a kicking battle on the weekend, not Will Jordan - he was dominant.Quick enough. Do you enjoy watching a 6ft 5 Jordie cart it up as a crash-ball 12 where the South Africans chew him up like nothing?
And no, it would be Jordie considering the kicking game in today's game.
We tried Jordie at fullback, we rightly moved him to 12.
If he wasn't a Barrett I'd say that Tupaea would have his spot at 12, and he'd likely be on the bench, especially after a rather quiet test year last year (regardless of what he's been doing in NH rugby). But he's Barrett so likely Quinn is watching from the sidelines and we all complain that we have a midfield that can't cart the ball in traffic despite the fact one of them is built like a lock.
@Nepia said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@hikastags said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Jordie's not quick, and he's not elusive. If most people could build a fullback in a lab, I reckon they'd build Christian Cullen - and Jordie most certainly isn't that.
Also it was the Chiefs back 3 who looked silly in what was largely a kicking battle on the weekend, not Will Jordan - he was dominant.Quick enough. Do you enjoy watching a 6ft 5 Jordie cart it up as a crash-ball 12 where the South Africans chew him up like nothing?
And no, it would be Jordie considering the kicking game in today's game.
We tried Jordie at fullback, we rightly moved him to 12.
If he wasn't a Barrett I'd say that Tupaea would have his spot at 12, and he'd likely be on the bench, especially after a rather quiet test year last year (regardless of what he's been doing in NH rugby). But he's Barrett so likely Quinn is watching from the sidelines and we all complain that we have a midfield that can't cart the ball in traffic despite the fact one of them is built like a lock.
Oh come on Neps, don't let your hatred of the supremely talented Barrett Brothers cloud your judgement
Jordie was superb at fullback the majority of games he played there, and the coaches were loathe to move him despite the somewhat desperate need for his skillset at 12 at the time. I think we have enough quality in the midfield now to be able to push him back to 15 to shore up our defense, particularly against quality kicking. If you had both Clarke and Jordie in the back three then kicking to them is not going to get many rewards, and when it comes to SA in particular, that's pretty much their entire gameplan. -
@Nepia said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@hikastags said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Jordie's not quick, and he's not elusive. If most people could build a fullback in a lab, I reckon they'd build Christian Cullen - and Jordie most certainly isn't that.
Also it was the Chiefs back 3 who looked silly in what was largely a kicking battle on the weekend, not Will Jordan - he was dominant.Quick enough. Do you enjoy watching a 6ft 5 Jordie cart it up as a crash-ball 12 where the South Africans chew him up like nothing?
And no, it would be Jordie considering the kicking game in today's game.
We tried Jordie at fullback, we rightly moved him to 12.
If he wasn't a Barrett I'd say that Tupaea would have his spot at 12, and he'd likely be on the bench, especially after a rather quiet test year last year (regardless of what he's been doing in NH rugby). But he's Barrett so likely Quinn is watching from the sidelines and we all complain that we have a midfield that can't cart the ball in traffic despite the fact one of them is built like a lock.
Oh come on Neps, don't let your hatred of the supremely talented Barrett Brothers cloud your judgement
Jordie was superb at fullback the majority of games he played there, and the coaches were loathe to move him despite the somewhat desperate need for his skillset at 12 at the time. I think we have enough quality in the midfield now to be able to push him back to 15 to shore up our defense, particularly against quality kicking. If you had both Clarke and Jordie in the back three then kicking to them is not going to get many rewards, and when it comes to SA in particular, that's pretty much their entire gameplan.@No-Quarter said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Nepia said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@hikastags said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Jordie's not quick, and he's not elusive. If most people could build a fullback in a lab, I reckon they'd build Christian Cullen - and Jordie most certainly isn't that.
Also it was the Chiefs back 3 who looked silly in what was largely a kicking battle on the weekend, not Will Jordan - he was dominant.Quick enough. Do you enjoy watching a 6ft 5 Jordie cart it up as a crash-ball 12 where the South Africans chew him up like nothing?
And no, it would be Jordie considering the kicking game in today's game.
We tried Jordie at fullback, we rightly moved him to 12.
If he wasn't a Barrett I'd say that Tupaea would have his spot at 12, and he'd likely be on the bench, especially after a rather quiet test year last year (regardless of what he's been doing in NH rugby). But he's Barrett so likely Quinn is watching from the sidelines and we all complain that we have a midfield that can't cart the ball in traffic despite the fact one of them is built like a lock.
Oh come on Neps, don't let your hatred of the supremely talented Barrett Brothers cloud your judgement
Jordie was superb at fullback the majority of games he played there, and the coaches were loathe to move him despite the somewhat desperate need for his skillset at 12 at the time. I think we have enough quality in the midfield now to be able to push him back to 15 to shore up our defense, particularly against quality kicking. If you had both Clarke and Jordie in the back three then kicking to them is not going to get many rewards, and when it comes to SA in particular, that's pretty much their entire gameplan.What sort of revisionism is this? If Jordie was superb at fullback he'd still be there, he was decidedly average if you take Barrett fanboi glasses off.
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I think Tavatavanawai is best used off of the bench - he runs sideways a lot - which you can get away with at Super level.
@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I think Tavatavanawai is best used off of the bench - he runs sideways a lot - which you can get away with at Super level.
Someone needs to put disrespect on his name before his first test. Getting him angry might be the best policy.
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@Nepia said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@hikastags said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Jordie's not quick, and he's not elusive. If most people could build a fullback in a lab, I reckon they'd build Christian Cullen - and Jordie most certainly isn't that.
Also it was the Chiefs back 3 who looked silly in what was largely a kicking battle on the weekend, not Will Jordan - he was dominant.Quick enough. Do you enjoy watching a 6ft 5 Jordie cart it up as a crash-ball 12 where the South Africans chew him up like nothing?
And no, it would be Jordie considering the kicking game in today's game.
We tried Jordie at fullback, we rightly moved him to 12.
If he wasn't a Barrett I'd say that Tupaea would have his spot at 12, and he'd likely be on the bench, especially after a rather quiet test year last year (regardless of what he's been doing in NH rugby). But he's Barrett so likely Quinn is watching from the sidelines and we all complain that we have a midfield that can't cart the ball in traffic despite the fact one of them is built like a lock.
Oh come on Neps, don't let your hatred of the supremely talented Barrett Brothers cloud your judgement
Jordie was superb at fullback the majority of games he played there, and the coaches were loathe to move him despite the somewhat desperate need for his skillset at 12 at the time. I think we have enough quality in the midfield now to be able to push him back to 15 to shore up our defense, particularly against quality kicking. If you had both Clarke and Jordie in the back three then kicking to them is not going to get many rewards, and when it comes to SA in particular, that's pretty much their entire gameplan.@No-Quarter said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
If you had both Clarke and Jordie in the back three then kicking to them is not going to get many rewards, and when it comes to SA in particular, that's pretty much their entire gameplan.
The tactic will be to kick behind Clarke as he has the turning circle of a freight tanker. He's very good in the air going forward but no so when he needs to go backwards.
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Maybe it's just me, but i've seen Clarke fumble way too many high balls for him to be deemed as some high-ball maestro.
@hikastags said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Maybe it's just me, but i've seen Clarke fumble way too many high balls for him to be deemed as some high-ball maestro.
Are you sure you're thinking of the same player? My impression is one of our best in this regard.
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@hikastags said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Maybe it's just me, but i've seen Clarke fumble way too many high balls for him to be deemed as some high-ball maestro.
Are you sure you're thinking of the same player? My impression is one of our best in this regard.
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@No-Quarter said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Nepia said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@hikastags said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Jordie's not quick, and he's not elusive. If most people could build a fullback in a lab, I reckon they'd build Christian Cullen - and Jordie most certainly isn't that.
Also it was the Chiefs back 3 who looked silly in what was largely a kicking battle on the weekend, not Will Jordan - he was dominant.Quick enough. Do you enjoy watching a 6ft 5 Jordie cart it up as a crash-ball 12 where the South Africans chew him up like nothing?
And no, it would be Jordie considering the kicking game in today's game.
We tried Jordie at fullback, we rightly moved him to 12.
If he wasn't a Barrett I'd say that Tupaea would have his spot at 12, and he'd likely be on the bench, especially after a rather quiet test year last year (regardless of what he's been doing in NH rugby). But he's Barrett so likely Quinn is watching from the sidelines and we all complain that we have a midfield that can't cart the ball in traffic despite the fact one of them is built like a lock.
Oh come on Neps, don't let your hatred of the supremely talented Barrett Brothers cloud your judgement
Jordie was superb at fullback the majority of games he played there, and the coaches were loathe to move him despite the somewhat desperate need for his skillset at 12 at the time. I think we have enough quality in the midfield now to be able to push him back to 15 to shore up our defense, particularly against quality kicking. If you had both Clarke and Jordie in the back three then kicking to them is not going to get many rewards, and when it comes to SA in particular, that's pretty much their entire gameplan.What sort of revisionism is this? If Jordie was superb at fullback he'd still be there, he was decidedly average if you take Barrett fanboi glasses off.
@Nepia said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@No-Quarter said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Nepia said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@hikastags said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Jordie's not quick, and he's not elusive. If most people could build a fullback in a lab, I reckon they'd build Christian Cullen - and Jordie most certainly isn't that.
Also it was the Chiefs back 3 who looked silly in what was largely a kicking battle on the weekend, not Will Jordan - he was dominant.Quick enough. Do you enjoy watching a 6ft 5 Jordie cart it up as a crash-ball 12 where the South Africans chew him up like nothing?
And no, it would be Jordie considering the kicking game in today's game.
We tried Jordie at fullback, we rightly moved him to 12.
If he wasn't a Barrett I'd say that Tupaea would have his spot at 12, and he'd likely be on the bench, especially after a rather quiet test year last year (regardless of what he's been doing in NH rugby). But he's Barrett so likely Quinn is watching from the sidelines and we all complain that we have a midfield that can't cart the ball in traffic despite the fact one of them is built like a lock.
Oh come on Neps, don't let your hatred of the supremely talented Barrett Brothers cloud your judgement
Jordie was superb at fullback the majority of games he played there, and the coaches were loathe to move him despite the somewhat desperate need for his skillset at 12 at the time. I think we have enough quality in the midfield now to be able to push him back to 15 to shore up our defense, particularly against quality kicking. If you had both Clarke and Jordie in the back three then kicking to them is not going to get many rewards, and when it comes to SA in particular, that's pretty much their entire gameplan.What sort of revisionism is this? If Jordie was superb at fullback he'd still be there, he was decidedly average if you take Barrett fanboi glasses off.
Oh psh, he had multiple MOTM performances there and saved our wingers bacon on a number of occasions. He was not moved to 12 because he was struggling at the back, he was moved to fill a gaping hole in our midfield.
But, agree to disagree, I won't die on this hill
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@No-Quarter said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
If you had both Clarke and Jordie in the back three then kicking to them is not going to get many rewards, and when it comes to SA in particular, that's pretty much their entire gameplan.
The tactic will be to kick behind Clarke as he has the turning circle of a freight tanker. He's very good in the air going forward but no so when he needs to go backwards.
@Bovidae said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@No-Quarter said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
If you had both Clarke and Jordie in the back three then kicking to them is not going to get many rewards, and when it comes to SA in particular, that's pretty much their entire gameplan.
The tactic will be to kick behind Clarke as he has the turning circle of a freight tanker. He's very good in the air going forward but no so when he needs to go backwards.
Yeah but that's more a positional thing than anything else, if kickers are finding space behind our wingers then they are just too shallow. Something the coaches could help with...
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@Nepia said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@No-Quarter said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Nepia said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@hikastags said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Jordie's not quick, and he's not elusive. If most people could build a fullback in a lab, I reckon they'd build Christian Cullen - and Jordie most certainly isn't that.
Also it was the Chiefs back 3 who looked silly in what was largely a kicking battle on the weekend, not Will Jordan - he was dominant.Quick enough. Do you enjoy watching a 6ft 5 Jordie cart it up as a crash-ball 12 where the South Africans chew him up like nothing?
And no, it would be Jordie considering the kicking game in today's game.
We tried Jordie at fullback, we rightly moved him to 12.
If he wasn't a Barrett I'd say that Tupaea would have his spot at 12, and he'd likely be on the bench, especially after a rather quiet test year last year (regardless of what he's been doing in NH rugby). But he's Barrett so likely Quinn is watching from the sidelines and we all complain that we have a midfield that can't cart the ball in traffic despite the fact one of them is built like a lock.
Oh come on Neps, don't let your hatred of the supremely talented Barrett Brothers cloud your judgement
Jordie was superb at fullback the majority of games he played there, and the coaches were loathe to move him despite the somewhat desperate need for his skillset at 12 at the time. I think we have enough quality in the midfield now to be able to push him back to 15 to shore up our defense, particularly against quality kicking. If you had both Clarke and Jordie in the back three then kicking to them is not going to get many rewards, and when it comes to SA in particular, that's pretty much their entire gameplan.What sort of revisionism is this? If Jordie was superb at fullback he'd still be there, he was decidedly average if you take Barrett fanboi glasses off.
Oh psh, he had multiple MOTM performances there and saved our wingers bacon on a number of occasions. He was not moved to 12 because he was struggling at the back, he was moved to fill a gaping hole in our midfield.
But, agree to disagree, I won't die on this hill
@No-Quarter said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Oh psh, he had multiple MOTM performances there and saved our wingers bacon on a number of occasions. He was not moved to 12 because he was struggling at the back, he was moved to fill a gaping hole in our midfield.
2021 in particular
He was first in the aggregate TSF MOTM polls
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even if the look back at jordie playing 15 was SLIGHTLY rose tinted...i still feel it was more a case of BB at 15 and JB at 12 was just "more better" than JB at 15 and whomever else at 12...rather than he wasn;t good at 15 and need to move him
14.....he wasn;t good
same with CC....even if he wasn't as good as some claim under the high ball....hes nowhere near bad and it would be SO FAR down the list of things to worry about its not worth discussion
