B&I Lions 2017
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Why Haskell as a replacement? He doesn't play any of the backrow positions well enough.
Barring injury it's pretty obvious that the Lions will have Stander, Warburton and Faletau as their backrow.
@antipodean said in B&I Lions 2017:
Why Haskell as a replacement? He doesn't play any of the backrow positions well enough.
Barring injury it's pretty obvious that the Lions will have Stander, Warburton and Faletau as their backrow.
He did well enough at openside last year. Grandslam winner, man of the series against Australia, outplayed Pooper and all of his direct Lions competition.
Billy is an enormous loss. I can only imagine that anyone who doesn't rate him hasn't watched him properly for the last couple of years.
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Some interesting NH performances over the weekend.
At the moment if fit
Murray, Sexton, Nowell, Farrell, Joseph, North, L Williams
Reality
Webb, Farrell, Nowell, Joseph, J Davies (playing left and right, not inside and outside), North, L Williams
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@antipodean said in B&I Lions 2017:
Why Haskell as a replacement? He doesn't play any of the backrow positions well enough.
Barring injury it's pretty obvious that the Lions will have Stander, Warburton and Faletau as their backrow.
He did well enough at openside last year. Grandslam winner, man of the series against Australia, outplayed Pooper and all of his direct Lions competition.
Billy is an enormous loss. I can only imagine that anyone who doesn't rate him hasn't watched him properly for the last couple of years.
@SimonAdd_2 said in B&I Lions 2017:
@antipodean said in B&I Lions 2017:
Why Haskell as a replacement? He doesn't play any of the backrow positions well enough.
Barring injury it's pretty obvious that the Lions will have Stander, Warburton and Faletau as their backrow.
He did well enough at openside last year. Grandslam winner, man of the series against Australia, outplayed Pooper and all of his direct Lions competition.
The England pack outplayed Australia. Haskell is, at best, an all-rounder to bring on at the end - not an individual who replaces the injured number 8.
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Some interesting NH performances over the weekend.
At the moment if fit
Murray, Sexton, Nowell, Farrell, Joseph, North, L Williams
Reality
Webb, Farrell, Nowell, Joseph, J Davies (playing left and right, not inside and outside), North, L Williams
@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Some interesting NH performances over the weekend.
At the moment if fit
Murray, Sexton, Nowell, Farrell, Joseph, North, L Williams
Reality
Webb, Farrell, Nowell, Joseph, J Davies (playing left and right, not inside and outside), North, L Williams
Not sure why you're marking down Murray for his performance against Ospreys. I'd still have him before Webb.
Sexton? I wouldn't even put him on the June tour to Japan/US for his inexcrable performance in the semi. Woeful doesn't come close.
And Farrell at 10 against Exeter didn't fill me with reassurance about him there at test level either.
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Some interesting NH performances over the weekend.
At the moment if fit
Murray, Sexton, Nowell, Farrell, Joseph, North, L Williams
Reality
Webb, Farrell, Nowell, Joseph, J Davies (playing left and right, not inside and outside), North, L Williams
@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Some interesting NH performances over the weekend.
At the moment if fit
Murray, Sexton, Nowell, Farrell, Joseph, North, L Williams
Reality
Webb, Farrell, Nowell, Joseph, J Davies (playing left and right, not inside and outside), North, L Williams
I never get left and right centres. Is it because they can only pass one way?
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@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Some interesting NH performances over the weekend.
At the moment if fit
Murray, Sexton, Nowell, Farrell, Joseph, North, L Williams
Reality
Webb, Farrell, Nowell, Joseph, J Davies (playing left and right, not inside and outside), North, L Williams
I never get left and right centres. Is it because they can only pass one way?
@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Some interesting NH performances over the weekend.
At the moment if fit
Murray, Sexton, Nowell, Farrell, Joseph, North, L Williams
Reality
Webb, Farrell, Nowell, Joseph, J Davies (playing left and right, not inside and outside), North, L Williams
I never get left and right centres. Is it because they can only pass one way?
Is it a bit like "edges" in loigue?
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@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Some interesting NH performances over the weekend.
At the moment if fit
Murray, Sexton, Nowell, Farrell, Joseph, North, L Williams
Reality
Webb, Farrell, Nowell, Joseph, J Davies (playing left and right, not inside and outside), North, L Williams
I never get left and right centres. Is it because they can only pass one way?
Is it a bit like "edges" in loigue?
@booboo said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Some interesting NH performances over the weekend.
At the moment if fit
Murray, Sexton, Nowell, Farrell, Joseph, North, L Williams
Reality
Webb, Farrell, Nowell, Joseph, J Davies (playing left and right, not inside and outside), North, L Williams
I never get left and right centres. Is it because they can only pass one way?
Is it a bit like "edges" in loigue?
What does that mean? I dont watch boofball.
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@booboo said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Some interesting NH performances over the weekend.
At the moment if fit
Murray, Sexton, Nowell, Farrell, Joseph, North, L Williams
Reality
Webb, Farrell, Nowell, Joseph, J Davies (playing left and right, not inside and outside), North, L Williams
I never get left and right centres. Is it because they can only pass one way?
Is it a bit like "edges" in loigue?
What does that mean? I dont watch boofball.
@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@booboo said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Some interesting NH performances over the weekend.
At the moment if fit
Murray, Sexton, Nowell, Farrell, Joseph, North, L Williams
Reality
Webb, Farrell, Nowell, Joseph, J Davies (playing left and right, not inside and outside), North, L Williams
I never get left and right centres. Is it because they can only pass one way?
Is it a bit like "edges" in loigue?
What does that mean? I dont watch boofball.
Don't watch a shit load myself, but they seem to station a mini team on each side of the field for attack.
Usually a centre, a second rower and wing. Maybe a prop.
Instead of calling the sides of the field the sides of the field they call them edges.
I think the distribution of those players is down to said players ability to run, step, pass etc as the play flows a certain way.
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@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Some interesting NH performances over the weekend.
At the moment if fit
Murray, Sexton, Nowell, Farrell, Joseph, North, L Williams
Reality
Webb, Farrell, Nowell, Joseph, J Davies (playing left and right, not inside and outside), North, L Williams
Not sure why you're marking down Murray for his performance against Ospreys. I'd still have him before Webb.
Sexton? I wouldn't even put him on the June tour to Japan/US for his inexcrable performance in the semi. Woeful doesn't come close.
And Farrell at 10 against Exeter didn't fill me with reassurance about him there at test level either.
@Pot-Hale said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Some interesting NH performances over the weekend.
At the moment if fit
Murray, Sexton, Nowell, Farrell, Joseph, North, L Williams
Reality
Webb, Farrell, Nowell, Joseph, J Davies (playing left and right, not inside and outside), North, L Williams
Not sure why you're marking down Murray for his performance against Ospreys. I'd still have him before Webb.
Sexton? I wouldn't even put him on the June tour to Japan/US for his inexcrable performance in the semi. Woeful doesn't come close.
And Farrell at 10 against Exeter didn't fill me with reassurance about him there at test level either.
Not marking Murray down. He'll be first choice but I don't think he'll last fitnesswise.
Farrell has to go to 10 because Gatland selected Biggar and not Ford
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@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@booboo said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Some interesting NH performances over the weekend.
At the moment if fit
Murray, Sexton, Nowell, Farrell, Joseph, North, L Williams
Reality
Webb, Farrell, Nowell, Joseph, J Davies (playing left and right, not inside and outside), North, L Williams
I never get left and right centres. Is it because they can only pass one way?
Is it a bit like "edges" in loigue?
What does that mean? I dont watch boofball.
Don't watch a shit load myself, but they seem to station a mini team on each side of the field for attack.
Usually a centre, a second rower and wing. Maybe a prop.
Instead of calling the sides of the field the sides of the field they call them edges.
I think the distribution of those players is down to said players ability to run, step, pass etc as the play flows a certain way.
I'm not sure that'd work in rugby would it? The defensive paterns are so much more set because of the far higher amount of set piece & semi set piece ball that the centres swapping around on sides would be a nightmare. 12 & 13 are hugely different defensive positions in union. Does anyone play left & right? It seems like the sort of thing the Aussies might have tried at some stage...
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I'm not sure that'd work in rugby would it? The defensive paterns are so much more set because of the far higher amount of set piece & semi set piece ball that the centres swapping around on sides would be a nightmare. 12 & 13 are hugely different defensive positions in union. Does anyone play left & right? It seems like the sort of thing the Aussies might have tried at some stage...
@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
I'm not sure that'd work in rugby would it? The defensive paterns are so much more set because of the far higher amount of set piece & semi set piece ball that the centres swapping around on sides would be a nightmare. 12 & 13 are hugely different defensive positions in union. Does anyone play left & right? It seems like the sort of thing the Aussies might have tried at some stage...
I recall the convicts using left and right centres some time ago. It was the mention of it above that I queried as I don't think anyone uses it in the modern game. Would be hard work on defence to have to keep changing and on attack you lose having a centre-threequarter to distribute to the outsides.
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@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
I'm not sure that'd work in rugby would it? The defensive paterns are so much more set because of the far higher amount of set piece & semi set piece ball that the centres swapping around on sides would be a nightmare. 12 & 13 are hugely different defensive positions in union. Does anyone play left & right? It seems like the sort of thing the Aussies might have tried at some stage...
I recall the convicts using left and right centres some time ago. It was the mention of it above that I queried as I don't think anyone uses it in the modern game. Would be hard work on defence to have to keep changing and on attack you lose having a centre-threequarter to distribute to the outsides.
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Yeah, I feel like Dan Herbert used to play left & right, but it seems a terrible idea
@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
Yeah, I feel like Dan Herbert used to play left & right, but it seems a terrible idea
That seems about the time I was thinking as well.
I was hoping @MiketheSnow would come back and explain his comment because it has me stumped
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@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
Yeah, I feel like Dan Herbert used to play left & right, but it seems a terrible idea
That seems about the time I was thinking as well.
I was hoping @MiketheSnow would come back and explain his comment because it has me stumped
@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
Yeah, I feel like Dan Herbert used to play left & right, but it seems a terrible idea
That seems about the time I was thinking as well.
I was hoping @MiketheSnow would come back and explain his comment because it has me stumped
Just an idea. Something different to accommodate the personnel and bring something different to the mix.
If Farrell does go to 10 and Te'o has a good lead in then he'll play 12 and Joseph will play 13.
If not, then Gatland will have to accommodate Joseph and J Davies.
J Davies has a good kicking game so could go to 12, but his distribution is average off his left hand.
So left and right could work.
Who knows?
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@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
Yeah, I feel like Dan Herbert used to play left & right, but it seems a terrible idea
That seems about the time I was thinking as well.
I was hoping @MiketheSnow would come back and explain his comment because it has me stumped
Just an idea. Something different to accommodate the personnel and bring something different to the mix.
If Farrell does go to 10 and Te'o has a good lead in then he'll play 12 and Joseph will play 13.
If not, then Gatland will have to accommodate Joseph and J Davies.
J Davies has a good kicking game so could go to 12, but his distribution is average off his left hand.
So left and right could work.
Who knows?
I think it sort of becomes an option if you have 2 identical centres - eg Teo & Roberts, which is why I think Aussie did it (?) they often just played 2 interchangeable lumps rather than a 2nd five & a centre.
Wouldn't work with Joseph as he's an outside should gas man, you want him at 13 or nowhere. Teo for sure.
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@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
Yeah, I feel like Dan Herbert used to play left & right, but it seems a terrible idea
That seems about the time I was thinking as well.
I was hoping @MiketheSnow would come back and explain his comment because it has me stumped
Just an idea. Something different to accommodate the personnel and bring something different to the mix.
If Farrell does go to 10 and Te'o has a good lead in then he'll play 12 and Joseph will play 13.
If not, then Gatland will have to accommodate Joseph and J Davies.
J Davies has a good kicking game so could go to 12, but his distribution is average off his left hand.
So left and right could work.
Who knows?
@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
Yeah, I feel like Dan Herbert used to play left & right, but it seems a terrible idea
That seems about the time I was thinking as well.
I was hoping @MiketheSnow would come back and explain his comment because it has me stumped
Just an idea. Something different to accommodate the personnel and bring something different to the mix.
If Farrell does go to 10 and Te'o has a good lead in then he'll play 12 and Joseph will play 13.
If not, then Gatland will have to accommodate Joseph and J Davies.
J Davies has a good kicking game so could go to 12, but his distribution is average off his left hand.
So left and right could work.
Who knows?
If his distribution is average off one hand he shouldn't be playing in the centres full stop. (or playing at this level)
It's not difficult to train yourself to pass off both hands FFS.
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Reading rugby forums up till now, Billy was the player people up North were saying they couldn't afford to lose so this must be a big blow.
@Milk said in B&I Lions 2017:
Reading rugby forums up till now, Billy was the player people up North were saying they couldn't afford to lose so this must be a big blow.
Not sure about, Toby Falatau is a superb 8. It weakens them most because they could have started Billy & then subbed on Toby at 50 minutes & thats a huge double punch. But they still have one of the top 5 8's in world rugby.
Its not like us with Read where we would go from worlds best 8 to worlds 12th best 8. They go from 2nd to 3rd or 4th.
I also think Haskell offers a massive impact off the bench. So I'm not sold its a cripling loss. Sexton or Farrell would be far worse.
Its more of a worry in that there's still a round to go & then half a dozen warm up games. Billy won't be their only starter missing in a few weeks time.
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@Milk said in B&I Lions 2017:
Reading rugby forums up till now, Billy was the player people up North were saying they couldn't afford to lose so this must be a big blow.
Not sure about, Toby Falatau is a superb 8. It weakens them most because they could have started Billy & then subbed on Toby at 50 minutes & thats a huge double punch. But they still have one of the top 5 8's in world rugby.
Its not like us with Read where we would go from worlds best 8 to worlds 12th best 8. They go from 2nd to 3rd or 4th.
I also think Haskell offers a massive impact off the bench. So I'm not sold its a cripling loss. Sexton or Farrell would be far worse.
Its more of a worry in that there's still a round to go & then half a dozen warm up games. Billy won't be their only starter missing in a few weeks time.
@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Milk said in B&I Lions 2017:
Reading rugby forums up till now, Billy was the player people up North were saying they couldn't afford to lose so this must be a big blow.
Not sure about, Toby Falatau is a superb 8.
Yeah, I think the issue is a lack of form from Falatau, although I've heard there have been some good signs lately?
But yes, I agree IMO Sexton and Farrell would be big losses. However, it's almost like a foregone conclusion they'll lose Sexton due to being made of glass. It'll be a very interesting series if he can stay fit.
They've got so many class goal kickers over there so they could lose both and still have a couple of 84% goal kickers in.
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@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Milk said in B&I Lions 2017:
Reading rugby forums up till now, Billy was the player people up North were saying they couldn't afford to lose so this must be a big blow.
Not sure about, Toby Falatau is a superb 8.
Yeah, I think the issue is a lack of form from Falatau, although I've heard there have been some good signs lately?
But yes, I agree IMO Sexton and Farrell would be big losses. However, it's almost like a foregone conclusion they'll lose Sexton due to being made of glass. It'll be a very interesting series if he can stay fit.
They've got so many class goal kickers over there so they could lose both and still have a couple of 84% goal kickers in.
Yep, Toby was fantastic a couple of weeks back for Bath, hatrick & so on. He's coming right at the right time. the injury timing that screwed his 6 nations means he's not as broken as most
The issue with Farrell & Sexton is that's their 10& 12 & they don't have a distributing 12 as back up. So they lose Sexton they probably move Farrell in & change the game plan, they lose Farrell they play a smasher & change the game plan. So when they spend 4 weeks practicing that way & Sexton gets creamed by Brodie 10 minutes into the first test thats the series.
