B&I Lions 2017
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Reading rugby forums up till now, Billy was the player people up North were saying they couldn't afford to lose so this must be a big blow.
@Milk said in B&I Lions 2017:
Reading rugby forums up till now, Billy was the player people up North were saying they couldn't afford to lose so this must be a big blow.
Not sure about, Toby Falatau is a superb 8. It weakens them most because they could have started Billy & then subbed on Toby at 50 minutes & thats a huge double punch. But they still have one of the top 5 8's in world rugby.
Its not like us with Read where we would go from worlds best 8 to worlds 12th best 8. They go from 2nd to 3rd or 4th.
I also think Haskell offers a massive impact off the bench. So I'm not sold its a cripling loss. Sexton or Farrell would be far worse.
Its more of a worry in that there's still a round to go & then half a dozen warm up games. Billy won't be their only starter missing in a few weeks time.
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@Milk said in B&I Lions 2017:
Reading rugby forums up till now, Billy was the player people up North were saying they couldn't afford to lose so this must be a big blow.
Not sure about, Toby Falatau is a superb 8. It weakens them most because they could have started Billy & then subbed on Toby at 50 minutes & thats a huge double punch. But they still have one of the top 5 8's in world rugby.
Its not like us with Read where we would go from worlds best 8 to worlds 12th best 8. They go from 2nd to 3rd or 4th.
I also think Haskell offers a massive impact off the bench. So I'm not sold its a cripling loss. Sexton or Farrell would be far worse.
Its more of a worry in that there's still a round to go & then half a dozen warm up games. Billy won't be their only starter missing in a few weeks time.
@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Milk said in B&I Lions 2017:
Reading rugby forums up till now, Billy was the player people up North were saying they couldn't afford to lose so this must be a big blow.
Not sure about, Toby Falatau is a superb 8.
Yeah, I think the issue is a lack of form from Falatau, although I've heard there have been some good signs lately?
But yes, I agree IMO Sexton and Farrell would be big losses. However, it's almost like a foregone conclusion they'll lose Sexton due to being made of glass. It'll be a very interesting series if he can stay fit.
They've got so many class goal kickers over there so they could lose both and still have a couple of 84% goal kickers in.
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@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Milk said in B&I Lions 2017:
Reading rugby forums up till now, Billy was the player people up North were saying they couldn't afford to lose so this must be a big blow.
Not sure about, Toby Falatau is a superb 8.
Yeah, I think the issue is a lack of form from Falatau, although I've heard there have been some good signs lately?
But yes, I agree IMO Sexton and Farrell would be big losses. However, it's almost like a foregone conclusion they'll lose Sexton due to being made of glass. It'll be a very interesting series if he can stay fit.
They've got so many class goal kickers over there so they could lose both and still have a couple of 84% goal kickers in.
Yep, Toby was fantastic a couple of weeks back for Bath, hatrick & so on. He's coming right at the right time. the injury timing that screwed his 6 nations means he's not as broken as most
The issue with Farrell & Sexton is that's their 10& 12 & they don't have a distributing 12 as back up. So they lose Sexton they probably move Farrell in & change the game plan, they lose Farrell they play a smasher & change the game plan. So when they spend 4 weeks practicing that way & Sexton gets creamed by Brodie 10 minutes into the first test thats the series.
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Billy Vunipola's the first bloke on the England and Lions team sheet for me (or would have been). Has been massively important over the last two seasons and England/Saracens game-plan is often built around him. Also, isn't someone you'd sub off after 50 minutes these days.
That said, it's not the end of the world, there are always plenty of injuries in the lead up to (and during) Lions tours and Falatau is a decent enough player who is used to working with Gatland. There's still a decent back row in there somewhere.
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Billy Vunipola's the first bloke on the England and Lions team sheet for me (or would have been). Has been massively important over the last two seasons and England/Saracens game-plan is often built around him. Also, isn't someone you'd sub off after 50 minutes these days.
That said, it's not the end of the world, there are always plenty of injuries in the lead up to (and during) Lions tours and Falatau is a decent enough player who is used to working with Gatland. There's still a decent back row in there somewhere.
Sure they could. At very least they could field a combo of O'Mahony, O'Brien and Stander who know each other a bit.
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Sure they could. At very least they could field a combo of O'Mahony, O'Brien and Stander who know each other a bit.
@Pot-Hale
Nah, Warburton, Tipuric, Falatau. With Moriarty on the bench.....
In all seriousness I'd go Stander, Warburton, Falatau , but plenty of rugby to be played between now and the tests. Time for anyone on the plane to make a case for themselves and no doubt for others to pick up knocks.
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@Pot-Hale
Nah, Warburton, Tipuric, Falatau. With Moriarty on the bench.....
In all seriousness I'd go Stander, Warburton, Falatau , but plenty of rugby to be played between now and the tests. Time for anyone on the plane to make a case for themselves and no doubt for others to pick up knocks.
@Margin_Walker said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Pot-Hale
Nah, Warburton, Tipuric, Falatau. With Moriarty on the bench.....
In all seriousness I'd go Stander, Warburton, Falatau , but plenty of rugby to be played between now and the tests. Time for anyone on the plane to make a case for themselves and no doubt for others to pick up knocks.
Yeah you're right. At the very least Warburton, Tipuric and Faletau....
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bit of a bizaare article....I don't recall the NZ Public 'slamming the Lions' for selecting him?
Never heard of the author, but appears he is form up this way, and has other odd opinions on sports topics
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503448&objectid=11857124
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Is the Northern Advocate like the Betoota, just not as funny?
How strong is the lure of the Silver Fern it can attract four-year-olds to migrate? I think NASA should study this, it could make space travel much faster. Perhaps we've been witnessing the event horizon for decades without knowing it!
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Is the Northern Advocate like the Betoota, just not as funny?
How strong is the lure of the Silver Fern it can attract four-year-olds to migrate? I think NASA should study this, it could make space travel much faster. Perhaps we've been witnessing the event horizon for decades without knowing it!
@antipodean alas, no, it is an off-shoot of NZH, so tries to pass itself of as serious journalism
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@Pot-Hale
Nah, Warburton, Tipuric, Falatau. With Moriarty on the bench.....
In all seriousness I'd go Stander, Warburton, Falatau , but plenty of rugby to be played between now and the tests. Time for anyone on the plane to make a case for themselves and no doubt for others to pick up knocks.
@Margin_Walker said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Pot-Hale
Nah, Warburton, Tipuric, Falatau. With Moriarty on the bench.....
In all seriousness I'd go Stander, Warburton, Falatau , but plenty of rugby to be played between now and the tests. Time for anyone on the plane to make a case for themselves and no doubt for others to pick up knocks.
I do think that one thing the Lions need to do is keep their eyes open for players that may flourish beyond original expectations and plans.
We continually see average NZ players that go north and become effective way beyond their performances at home. I can't write this off entirely to a 'lower standard' and have to think there is a big element of suiting the detail on the way the game is played.
Take Jimmy Gopperth as an example. In NZ he never cracked the big time because in a game at speed he didn't quite have that time on the ball or speed of thinking and would stand a fraction too deep. The expectations in the northern game are different and suit his style. His skills are able to shine instead.
For the Lions there will likely be guys who find that instead of having to play the way they always do to be in tune with their team they relish being dragged into a faster pace. They may be able to read things instinctively etc. For a forward, maybe not having to pile into every ruck or have prolonged scrum battles frees up their energy to play more dynamically.
These are the type of players that make longer tours interesting. They have a chance to work things out and grow their game. A chance you don't get with one off tests. -
That last bit:
**"Answer this: what exactly can be done about it anyway? Do we have a blanket rule saying you can only play for the country you're born in?
That would help out the Pacific nations but because it would be a detriment to the likes of New Zealand and England, it won't happen."**
it wouldn't help Samoa, most of their players are NZ born.
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@Margin_Walker said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Pot-Hale
Nah, Warburton, Tipuric, Falatau. With Moriarty on the bench.....
In all seriousness I'd go Stander, Warburton, Falatau , but plenty of rugby to be played between now and the tests. Time for anyone on the plane to make a case for themselves and no doubt for others to pick up knocks.
I do think that one thing the Lions need to do is keep their eyes open for players that may flourish beyond original expectations and plans.
We continually see average NZ players that go north and become effective way beyond their performances at home. I can't write this off entirely to a 'lower standard' and have to think there is a big element of suiting the detail on the way the game is played.
Take Jimmy Gopperth as an example. In NZ he never cracked the big time because in a game at speed he didn't quite have that time on the ball or speed of thinking and would stand a fraction too deep. The expectations in the northern game are different and suit his style. His skills are able to shine instead.
For the Lions there will likely be guys who find that instead of having to play the way they always do to be in tune with their team they relish being dragged into a faster pace. They may be able to read things instinctively etc. For a forward, maybe not having to pile into every ruck or have prolonged scrum battles frees up their energy to play more dynamically.
These are the type of players that make longer tours interesting. They have a chance to work things out and grow their game. A chance you don't get with one off tests.@Crucial Good point. As a shining example see Ryan Jones in the 2005 tour. Not an original pick but a late injury replacement and he ended up playing 8 in all three tests. Whilst he was always a good player, that tour was the making of him.
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That last bit:
**"Answer this: what exactly can be done about it anyway? Do we have a blanket rule saying you can only play for the country you're born in?
That would help out the Pacific nations but because it would be a detriment to the likes of New Zealand and England, it won't happen."**
it wouldn't help Samoa, most of their players are NZ born.
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@Margin_Walker said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Pot-Hale
Nah, Warburton, Tipuric, Falatau. With Moriarty on the bench.....
In all seriousness I'd go Stander, Warburton, Falatau , but plenty of rugby to be played between now and the tests. Time for anyone on the plane to make a case for themselves and no doubt for others to pick up knocks.
I do think that one thing the Lions need to do is keep their eyes open for players that may flourish beyond original expectations and plans.
We continually see average NZ players that go north and become effective way beyond their performances at home. I can't write this off entirely to a 'lower standard' and have to think there is a big element of suiting the detail on the way the game is played.
Take Jimmy Gopperth as an example. In NZ he never cracked the big time because in a game at speed he didn't quite have that time on the ball or speed of thinking and would stand a fraction too deep. The expectations in the northern game are different and suit his style. His skills are able to shine instead.
For the Lions there will likely be guys who find that instead of having to play the way they always do to be in tune with their team they relish being dragged into a faster pace. They may be able to read things instinctively etc. For a forward, maybe not having to pile into every ruck or have prolonged scrum battles frees up their energy to play more dynamically.
These are the type of players that make longer tours interesting. They have a chance to work things out and grow their game. A chance you don't get with one off tests.@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Margin_Walker said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Pot-Hale
Nah, Warburton, Tipuric, Falatau. With Moriarty on the bench.....
In all seriousness I'd go Stander, Warburton, Falatau , but plenty of rugby to be played between now and the tests. Time for anyone on the plane to make a case for themselves and no doubt for others to pick up knocks.
I do think that one thing the Lions need to do is keep their eyes open for players that may flourish beyond original expectations and plans.
We continually see average NZ players that go north and become effective way beyond their performances at home. I can't write this off entirely to a 'lower standard' and have to think there is a big element of suiting the detail on the way the game is played.
Take Jimmy Gopperth as an example. In NZ he never cracked the big time because in a game at speed he didn't quite have that time on the ball or speed of thinking and would stand a fraction too deep. The expectations in the northern game are different and suit his style. His skills are able to shine instead.
For the Lions there will likely be guys who find that instead of having to play the way they always do to be in tune with their team they relish being dragged into a faster pace. They may be able to read things instinctively etc. For a forward, maybe not having to pile into every ruck or have prolonged scrum battles frees up their energy to play more dynamically.
These are the type of players that make longer tours interesting. They have a chance to work things out and grow their game. A chance you don't get with one off tests.Love this post, half of the fun of the tour is seeing such players break through, and predicting who will thrive. This time round, I think Jamie George, Justin Tipuric and Elliot Daly all fit the profile of guys you probably wouldn't pick for a Test XV right now, but could excel in the style of play of the build-up games and could easily end up starting a Test or two.
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@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@booboo said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Some interesting NH performances over the weekend.
At the moment if fit
Murray, Sexton, Nowell, Farrell, Joseph, North, L Williams
Reality
Webb, Farrell, Nowell, Joseph, J Davies (playing left and right, not inside and outside), North, L Williams
I never get left and right centres. Is it because they can only pass one way?
Is it a bit like "edges" in loigue?
What does that mean? I dont watch boofball.
Don't watch a shit load myself, but they seem to station a mini team on each side of the field for attack.
Usually a centre, a second rower and wing. Maybe a prop.
Instead of calling the sides of the field the sides of the field they call them edges.
I think the distribution of those players is down to said players ability to run, step, pass etc as the play flows a certain way.
@booboo said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@booboo said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Some interesting NH performances over the weekend.
At the moment if fit
Murray, Sexton, Nowell, Farrell, Joseph, North, L Williams
Reality
Webb, Farrell, Nowell, Joseph, J Davies (playing left and right, not inside and outside), North, L Williams
I never get left and right centres. Is it because they can only pass one way?
Is it a bit like "edges" in loigue?
What does that mean? I dont watch boofball.
Don't watch a shit load myself, but they seem to station a mini team on each side of the field for attack.
Usually a centre, a second rower and wing. Maybe a prop.
Instead of calling the sides of the field the sides of the field they call them edges.
I think the distribution of those players is down to said players ability to run, step, pass etc as the play flows a certain way.
if you go back 20 odd years ago in league , maybe more ,
they tended to have all or most of the forwards around the ruck area and the blindside , and the backs would normally form up in orthodox fashion on the openside of the field , from halfback , stand off , inside center outside C,
i played both codes , it was a pain the arse if you were an outside centre having to keep swapping to each side of the field ,
then they came up with the idea of left and right centres staying inside the wingers on each side of the field , its less complex , but somehow they have evolved with that role into being closer to second row forwards and less like the specialist centres who tended to run into open space a lot more , like they still do in union IMO
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@gollum Nice response from the BILs
