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mohikamo

@mohikamo
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Recent Best Controversial

    Sid Going, RIP
  • M mohikamo

    @pakman
    I agree with Sid. He had the better of all his opposites.

    For you young types he was a bit like Aaron Smith (with zero yap!). Never seen a better ball runner. Quick, low centre of gravity, and very strong. I sometimes wonder how olden time players would go in the modern game. Have absolutely no doubt Going would be a sensation.

    Halfbacks are nearly always the best natural players on any team. They have to be, they are the smallest. Going was a natural, could have given a good account in any position. Played fullback for NZ once, and was an occasional goal kicker. And he could hit in the tackle.

    As for Going verse Edwards.

    I remember the ’71 tour. I think it was the first ever live TV test series in NZ.

    Going played six times against the Lions, and five times against Edwards. At one point they faced each other twice in one week.

    Thought the ABs edged the series even tho they lost. Drawn series probably a fair result.

    Lost the first test cos Fergie couldn’t kick straight.

    Dominated the second—awesome all time great Kirkpatrick try, run in from half way. Kirkpatrick and Going had great combo. A Going snipe and offload to Kirkpatrick—classic.

    Definitely lost 3rd test. Sir Brian came out of retirement—nah. And the Lions scrambled a draw in the fourth.

    But maybe the best game of the whole tour tho, was the week before the fourth test. Versus NA in Whangarei.

    The 70’s were the great days for the Taniwha. Awesome team. They ran on to field back then super confident they could beat anyone.

    The Lions fielded pretty much the same team that ran on in the Fourth a week later.

    From what I recall of the game, it was “rugged.” NA dominated for stretches, the Lions held on, steadied, and finished with a try late. Probably the superior touring team fitness telling.

    Of the players; I can recall David Duckham scoring at a crucial point, a bit against the run of play; and a great tackle by JPR Williams on Brian Going when he was sure to score. Williams was one of the best front on tacklers I ever saw. Perfect technique.

    Of the others; I have zero recollection of Edwards, the “greatest,” or of Barry John, or any of the others.

    After the the game John Dawes (Lions capt.) made the comment that this was the only game on tour that he became anxious about stopping the opposition.

    I checked the Taniwha line-up for the game;

    six ABs (C&F); Sid and Ken Going, Joe Morgan, Murray Jones, Richie Guy, Bevan Holmes;

    two AB reserves (so would have been ABs now days), Dennis Panther and Frank Colthurst;

    an AB Junior, Zukov Marinkovic;

    two AB trialists Rod Jones (brother of Murray) and Les Bradley;

    two Maori ABs (Laly Haddon and Brian Going), Haddon was a Jonah type, could play wing and No 8;

    with Jim Kirtlan and Craig Poynter, locking.

    Great great team! And a great coach, Ted Griffin, 25 years in charge.

    It’s for another thread, but that lineup is probably a reason why we are not engaged with top class NZ domestic rugby any more.

    In the pro era I would say the majority of the above players are not even in NZ.

    That was the amateur days, star players everywhere!

    There must be five or 600 top class NZ players plying their trade OS now. In olden times they were all still here.

    Never happen now, but imagine the standard of the local competition if they were.


  • All Blacks 2025
  • M mohikamo

    @Tim said in All Blacks 2025:

    they don’t believe the high-performance system is operating at best-practice levels

    I've been thinking that for quite a while.

    Been lurking on this forum for probably 2 decades; never felt the need to make a comment until the last few seasons, when it has become clear and obvious to me that elite NZ rugby has begun a slow slide, heading towards mediocrity.

    I've mentioned more than once that we should be looking past the likes of Robertson and the national coaching set-up for the origin of the malaise into which high-performance rugby in NZ has been slipping.
    Not just the seniors, but all the Black teams; U18s, and the ladies, all of them.

    It's the NZR high-performance (Pro rugby) department that needs a clean-out.
    If the HP dept recommended the appointment of Robertson to the NZR board on the basis of his pitch as a "culture coach," they should be booted right now.

    Of all the head honchos in the current NZR hierarchy; i have got the most faith in Kirk to identify the problems, and get the correct "adjustments" implemented.
    We are of a similar vintage/background, so i'm making the assumption that his thoughts are along the same lines as mine.
    Smart guy, and he looks like he could be a prick when he needs to be.

    He needs to kick the hubris out the NZR HP dept.
    Before the slide becomes clear and obvious to everyone.


  • All Blacks 2025
  • M mohikamo

    @mariner4life said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

    Another middle of the road tour means another 12 months of the same shit, and in fact probably right through to the World Cup.

    This is by far the most likely scenario.


  • All Blacks 2025
  • M mohikamo

    @Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:

    Kirk is probably in the driving seat right now. Not saying he'll take decisions on his own, but he's in a position to ask the right questions (starting to already) and seems smart enough to cut thru the snake oil and ensure he and the new CEO get the right answers

    Kirk knows how to operate a board room.
    And he knows rugby.
    It's about setting a new direction; getting rid of the corporate type complacency that had quite naturally developed after a long period of sustained success.
    Just about the perfect guy for this situation.

    I mean, selecting a culturist as your HC FFS.
    The height of arrogance; doubt any of our opposition are going to be following that trend any time soon.
    Wouldn't get rid of Robertson yet, unfortunately his basic win/loss isn't bad enough. The nature of the losses are so bad tho!
    Let him start next season, and put a contingency plan in place; in case things go very, very badly.

    Get a new CEO, and tell him his first job will be to clean out the HP dept.

    Living in Sydney might actually be an advantage if some people are guna get pissed-off.


  • All Blacks 2025
  • M mohikamo

    Depth Chart:
    October 15, 2025.

    Players are listed purely on number of appearances; AB first, then SR.
    Not my personal preferences, rather, the current coaches.

    09f64bd9-0ffd-44e3-beef-ed17166feb26-image.png

    ec5171c3-0881-4c13-8b4e-cf7f27009004-image.png

    aaa6cb0b-1a73-40e2-b9bc-871d63437812-image.png

    22bd5691-df49-4fe7-9f7e-7fe3705d152e-image.png

    f4cae384-9539-4a10-b5bf-f8661c2046ce-image.png

    9524dfda-f641-4aa6-a294-70a7a15cdf83-image.png

    Tie breakers are; first, appearances in other positions, then substitute appearances.

    ABs officially listed as unavailable, are included as ABs.


  • All Blacks 2026
  • M mohikamo

    Fuuuck . . . took me hours to catch this thread up.

    Good work by the TSF.
    Pat on the back.
    On to this before anyone else.
    Maybe TSF didn't get Razor sacked this week . . . but the ferners would have got it done eventually.

    Pat on the back to Kirk and Mealamu too.

    Jeez . . . if NZR keep moving in this direction . . . I just might go back to being a lurker.


  • Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?
  • M mohikamo

    @Crazy-Horse

    I could write a book about this!

    There are about 7 grades of NZ pro rugby contract

    1st Full
    2nd Draft
    3rd Interim
    4th Development
    5th Sevens
    6th Provincial
    7th Provincial Development

    That covers all professional rugby players in NZ.
    All are NZRU employees and must be available for national teams.
    About 700 players.

    As I understand it . . . .

    There are probably about 150 full contracts out there; 30 for each Super team and maybe a couple of outliers (Savea for example). Plus the Black Ferns.
    A full contract is divided into two components, the NZ component and the Super component.
    Max Super component is 195G, min 75.

    A draft contract is for players drafted in for a single competition; currently there are 6 draft players per Super team.
    So not many out there on draft contracts.

    An interim contract covers all players brought in temporarily.
    The player you are talking about would have been on one of these contracts.
    Dropping him out of the squad would probably be a budgetary/CEA consideration. The original player having to be on the list if he was now fit and available. Not being able to flick a player on a draft/full contract.

    Development contracts seem to be for young players that NZR basically just wants to have stick around. To stop them going overseas I’m guessing. PU’s doing the same with their Dev contracts. Probably not many of these.

    Sevens contracts; about 40 of them; 20 boys, 20 girls.

    Provincial contracts; a multitude of these.
    Each PU must have a minimum of 26 of these (plus AB's)
    The interesting thing here is that while these contracts are separate to NZ contracts, all NZ contracted players must also have a Provincial contract. So those on NZ contracts actually have 2 contracts.

    NZR would have to be the largest single employer of rugby players in the world.
    I don’t think it operates like this anywhere else in the rugby world.
    Good luck to whoever keeps on top of this at NZR.

    Made a few assumptions, but off the top of my head; that's sort of how I understand it.


  • What is decline?
  • M mohikamo

    @stodders said in What is decline?:

    I wasn’t around in 1971 when the Lions toured, but from what I have read and heard, it feels like NZ rugby is at similar seminal moment. People are questioning the ABs DNA, the quality of the player, the paucity of coaching acumen.

    Now that you bring it up, there are corollaries with what’s happening now and the early 1970’s.

    Pretty much thru out the 1960’s NZ had held the No. 1 ranking; and reached their zenith with Fred Allen’s unbeaten run as coach (66 to 68).
    Played a nice, 15 man power game, led by hard men like Colin Meads and Ken Gray.

    But Allen was not an establishment guy (gotta like that) and didn’t mind upsetting an administrator.
    That sure doesn’t happen now.
    He jumped in 1968.

    He was replaced by Vodanovich (an associate of the NZRFU chairman) and he presided over the decline.
    Beaten in SA in 1970 and by the Lions in 1971.
    Kind of shooting ourselves in the foot; great admin work!
    NZ still held the No. 1 ranking after defeat by SA in 1970 (the rankings work like that) but in 1971 the Saffers took over at the top. This was the first time SA had been No. 1 since 1962, spending nearly a decade back in the ranks.

    New Zealand probably didn’t reach the dominance of the 1960’s again until the late 1980’s.
    Swapping No. 1 back and forth with SA for the intervening, becoming dominant when SA got the boot.

    Although the Brits were definitely No. 1 in 1974; their highest point since ancient times. But the Lions don’t count in the rankings.

    I’d say currently; New Zealand had slipped back into the pack by about 2019. And we’ve been bouncing around in there ever since.


  • Poll: Best AB coach - professional era
  • M mohikamo

    Definitely not Hart; although he'd win the poll if it was just about PR.
    Hart would be first in that one; and Mitchell last.

    Assuming it's just the head coach role; so not Smith, to short.

    The other four I sort of consider as one and the same; in succession.
    Henry started it, set it all up; and Hansen kept it going.
    All doing pretty much the same thing.
    The problem being, the operational environment has been changing.
    And none of the last three seem to have been able to make the correct adjustments.

    Hansen did run out of ideas towards the end; when he really did need to change things up.
    I found that very disappointing, and expected more from someone who was in the primo rugby coaching role on the planet.

    And the next two are sort of bumbling along in the same vein as the late Hansen.

    So it has to be Henry.
    Started with a bit of a mess, and left it as a power house.


  • Auckland v Northland
  • M mohikamo

    @Kirwan
    Haha, even the Riverhead club on the Waitemata was in the North Auckland union at one time.
    Times have certainly changed!


  • World Rugby confirms changes to be implemented across the global game
  • M mohikamo

    @MiketheSnow

    Nah

    what you do is send the yellow card player off,
    BUT THEN, when the team with the man advantage scores (or the ten minutes expire - which ever comes first) thats the end of the card.
    both teams back to equal . . . so simple to administer

    should be the same for red cards
    the only difference being then, is that the red carded player doesn't come back, a different player does

    commensense


  • Scotland v All Blacks
  • M mohikamo

    @sparky said in Scotland v All Blacks:

    I thought at half time that finally we were going to get a statement performance under Robertson.

    This was an opportunity to play our own game, against a team that was going to let us do that.

    At half time this should have gone 50/50 at worst. Like a final score of 40 to 20; as the Scots regained some parity.
    Instead the Scots won the second half easily.
    So much for playing our own game, and making a statement performance.

    Finished well though, always like that.
    Showing a bit of mental strength, for the seond week in row.


  • Important rugby records - All Blacks and others
  • M mohikamo

    I can remember when Wales v NZ was a big thing.
    Beat them in 67, 69 (twice) 72 and 78; pretty much put an end to the thing.
    Wales had a good team back then too.
    JPR Williams, Gerald Davies, Phil Bennett, Derek Quinnell, Mervyn Davies.
    Still not good enough tho.
    The Wales v NZ test in 1972 was in fact the first ever test match broadcast live into NZ.
    Keith Murdoch scored a great try in that 72 game.
    Keith got a bit pissy after the game.
    Would have beat them in 1905 too, if they had the TMO.


  • Exodus
  • M mohikamo

    @taniwharugby

    I think PUDC players get $1,250 assembly per game; so $12,500 for ten games (plus their retainer)
    There is no minimum retainer for a PUDC player.
    PUs can have as many PUDC players as they like.
    And if your PUDC retainer is under $2,500, you can walk to another PU anytime.

    PUC retainers per player are $55,000 max; $21,000 min; with $85,000 max possible for 2 veterans (8 seasons, same team).
    Individual match fees, win bonuses are part of the retainer.
    The max for a U20 player is $21,000; $25,000 if it's the second year.

    All ABs must have a PUC and get the max $5,500 per game ($55,000), and they get that even if they dont play (NZR picking up the tab).

    Official training sessions; $150 per day.

    There are NZR PU Premier comp incentive payments for NZC players,.
    NZR Incentive payments dont come under the PU salary cap.
    Two years NZC player $5,000; four years $12,500; five or more years, $35,000.

    And there are also NZR PU Premier comp incentive payments for PUC players as well,.
    4 years $5,000; 5 years + $7,500.

    Super clubs can actually make a contribution to a players PUC too, but cannot break the 55G PU max.
    This is not in the PU salary cap, or to be out of the NZR PPP.

    There are team incentives as well for finals. $75,000 for a home final.

    The Premier competition (thats what they call it) duration is for 15 weeks.
    Say $38,000 is an average comp payment, that is just over $2,500 a week.
    Which is ok, but if you dont have a NZC, it is only 15 weeks work.
    If you have a half decent day-job, you are not quitting for that money.
    If you are U20, it's only $1,400 per week

    But if you have an NZC, it's probably quite good money.
    It'll all add up nicely.
    SC money plus PU money equals not too bad.


  • Red Cards & HIA
  • M mohikamo

    @taniwharugby said in Red Cards & HIA:

    I am all for punishing thuggish plays, but again, ruining the contest because of 1.players moment of stupidity?

    I hate contests being affected by red cards (last two RWC Finals, and two of the biggest match ups this year Ire v NZ, and SA x Fr)..

    I would like more leniency on the actual field; with much more harshness at the review panel after the game.
    Rub players out for weeks; even out of the game if necessary.

    An NFL player got suspended for one game recently (they don't get paid when suspended, so cost him about $1 mil.)
    It was for a series of "hip drop tackles." None of the incidents were picked up during the games.
    But he got a series of warning letters from the review panel.
    When he failed to adjust his technique, suspension followed.
    One million dollars thanks.
    And if he doesn't change; it'll be another million dollars.
    Then the mother/wife/gf get involved, and we know how that works.


  • All Blacks 2025
  • M mohikamo

    @stodders said in All Blacks 2025:

    Robbie Deans

    Played against Robbie Deans at school
    He was fuckin good.
    Carved us up, the little prick.
    And his F'n brother, and jock hobbs.
    They had a f'n good team!


  • Rugby World Cup 2027 Draw - LIVE
  • M mohikamo

    @Bones said in Rugby World Cup 2027 Draw - LIVE:

    Don't really get the whinging, chances are we still have to beat SA in the final anyway

    The issue here is the cumulative effect.
    Do I think we can beat the saffas in the quarters, sure.
    But the saffas, then France, then England, in 15 days . . . that's a smasha-a-thon.

    Even the saffas cant be thrilled about the prospect.

    Definitely could have lucked an easier way.


  • Poll: Best AB coach - professional era
  • M mohikamo

    @sparky

    Got it 100%

    Henry cleaned up a bit of a mess; and when he left it was in great shape.
    Hansen took over something that was already pretty good; and we he left it was a bit of a mess.
    Or heading that way; and maybe that's one of the reasons he left; cos he couldn't figure out a way forward.
    And the next two guys have been bumbling along trying to sort it.


  • Ashes 2025/6
  • M mohikamo

    @Virgil

    Yeah the poms have f'd up this series good and proper.
    Poms have the raw material to get it done, but the Aussies have played it much smarter.

    Bazball does have a place. Just gotta pick the right time.
    Aussies finished the 1st test off with bazball.

    Financial disaster; ACB guna make sure that the wickets are ultra flat for at least the next generation!
    Didn't mind the shoot out myself; very entertaining.

    Test cricket got way better when ODI tactics and strategies came into it; dunno about the T20 version of test cricket tho.


  • New All Black Coach
  • M mohikamo

    @gt12 said in New All Black Coach:

    NZ wants to act like it sits at the top of developed nations but it just doesn't occupy such a position.

    Well done, you kept that short, when you could easily have written a book on the subject.

    As far as the NZRFU goes; I think their annual revenue ranks them 3rd in the world compared to other national rugby unions. Behind only England and France. So in that respect they are heavy weights in the rugby world.
    But in all other respects (apart from the field records of their teams) they are very, very small beer.
    It is the national teams (one in particular) that generate the cash, most of that coming from off-shore.
    That is why the performance of the national team is so critical to the rest of the game in NZ.
    If they had to rely on domestic funding they’d be completely fucked.

    I read an interesting economics paper recently in this subject. When I find the link ill put it out.
    Quite short, only a few pages.
    One piece in it struck me; amusingly the NZ economy has been studied in detail by South American economists. They have been trying figure out why the NZ standard of living has been defying gravity. When all standard economic measures say it should be quite a bit lower than it is.
    They have an interesting conclusion.

    Quite sad really, when I was young it was quite different.
    For about a century, up to 1970, NZ had a standard of living as high as any country in the world. Up there with the US, and higher than Aus.
    That all changed in the 1970’s. And anyone under 50 years of age will have no concept of that.
    The international economic winds were not kind to NZ.
    But even so, the standard of living in NZ has never dropped as far as the economic indicators would have suggested that perhaps it should.

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