Italy v All Blacks

nostrildamus

And the argument for Havili over Lam in the 23 jersey for this hypothetical backline would be what exactly? Given the 3 players above all cover 10 and 15?

I think we agree there isn't much reason. Havili is a test 12, not a 13 or a 10, no longer a 15, and we have plenty of ex / part-time 15s.

MN5

@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

And the argument for Havili over Lam in the 23 jersey for this hypothetical backline would be what exactly? Given the 3 players above all cover 10 and 15?

I think we agree there isn't much reason. Havili is a test 12, not a 13 or a 10, no longer a 15, and we have plenty of ex / part-time 15s.

Even that’s optimistic

nostrildamus

@MN5 said in Italy v All Blacks:

@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

And the argument for Havili over Lam in the 23 jersey for this hypothetical backline would be what exactly? Given the 3 players above all cover 10 and 15?

I think we agree there isn't much reason. Havili is a test 12, not a 13 or a 10, no longer a 15, and we have plenty of ex / part-time 15s.

Even that’s optimistic

Yeah I read it again and thought why was I so nice? I don't rate him at 12 either. When he started under Foster I saw the potential but I really don't think he has been good enough in any position he played in to get the selections he has - then again I am no AB coach.

Crazy Horse

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:

I don’t have such a problem with Havili on the bench. But it does my head in that it’s not

10 McKenzie
15 Love
22 Perofeta (or swap with Love)

And the argument for Havili over Lam in the 23 jersey for this hypothetical backline would be what exactly? Given the 3 players above all cover 10 and 15?

I have said this a number of times, I am not a fan of Havilii, but I can get his selection over Lam, at this stage. Lam has not had a lot of time in the midfield, and owing to the way the Blues played he has not had the chance to show he is a ball player. Next year if he plays midfield and gets to show he is at least the equal to Jordie as a passer, then yes, pick him. They'd be fools not to.

Duluth

@Crazy-Horse said in Italy v All Blacks:

Lam has not had a lot of time in the midfield

He's already had 22 first class starts in the midfield. Obviously he has shifted there late in games too.

Machpants

@Duluth said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Crazy-Horse said in Italy v All Blacks:

Lam has not had a lot of time in the midfield

He's already had 22 first class starts in the midfield. Obviously he has shifted there late in games too.

A few more than Sititi at 6

nostrildamus

Considering how troublesome finding a 6 has been, considering he isn't that big and plays at 8, throwing Sititi in there was inspired. Or ballsy. Or desperate. But well done him. I'm also on the Sititi as future AB captain bandwagon. Hope that isn't a jinx.

KiwiMurph

@Crazy-Horse said in Italy v All Blacks:

I have said this a number of times, I am not a fan of Havilii, but I can get his selection over Lam, at this stage. Lam has not had a lot of time in the midfield, and owing to the way the Blues played he has not had the chance to show he is a ball player.

We don't have ball players in the midfield now. Lam has looked good in midfield for Blues (including 3 playoff games), a bad Auckland NPC team and an AB XV game.

I don't understand the fear at all.

Meanwhile how many games has Havili played at 13? I don't recall him playing there at all.

sparky

This post is deleted!

canefan

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Crazy-Horse said in Italy v All Blacks:

Meanwhile how many games has Havili played at 13? I don't recall him playing there at all.

It's a poor excuse to justify retaining a player who IMHO doesn't deserve to be there

Crazy Horse

@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Crazy-Horse said in Italy v All Blacks:

Meanwhile how many games has Havili played at 13? I don't recall him playing there at all.

It's a poor excuse to justify retaining a player who IMHO doesn't deserve to be there

Maybe, but it was an attempt to see their reasoning.

Billy Tell

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:

I don’t have such a problem with Havili on the bench. But it does my head in that it’s not

10 McKenzie
15 Love
22 Perofeta (or swap with Love)

And the argument for Havili over Lam in the 23 jersey for this hypothetical backline would be what exactly? Given the 3 players above all cover 10 and 15?

I think Havili was in the squad and Lam was added later. It would therefore be odd to promote Lam. The coaches also have to think of squad harmony etc. If you parachute players in and play them ahead of original squad picks, Qs will be asked.

Machpants

@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:

I don’t have such a problem with Havili on the bench. But it does my head in that it’s not

10 McKenzie
15 Love
22 Perofeta (or swap with Love)

And the argument for Havili over Lam in the 23 jersey for this hypothetical backline would be what exactly? Given the 3 players above all cover 10 and 15?

I think Havili was in the squad and Lam was added later. It would therefore be odd to promote Lam. The coaches also have to think of squad harmony etc. If you parachute players in and play them ahead of original squad picks, Qs will be asked.

Questions like, why did you pick a below average AB instead of someone who has been much better? Yeah terrible questions, might show how bloody awful their picks have mostly been

Bones

@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:

I don’t have such a problem with Havili on the bench. But it does my head in that it’s not

10 McKenzie
15 Love
22 Perofeta (or swap with Love)

And the argument for Havili over Lam in the 23 jersey for this hypothetical backline would be what exactly? Given the 3 players above all cover 10 and 15?

I think Havili was in the squad and Lam was added later. It would therefore be odd to promote Lam. The coaches also have to think of squad harmony etc. If you parachute players in and play them ahead of original squad picks, Qs will be asked.

That would be rather two faced. Very Foster like.

MN5

@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:

Considering how troublesome finding a 6 has been, considering he isn't that big and plays at 8, throwing Sititi in there was inspired. Or ballsy. Or desperate. But well done him. I'm also on the Sititi as future AB captain bandwagon. Hope that isn't a jinx.

Settle. Let’s just see him continue to play well before putting those expectations round his neck

nostrildamus

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

Meanwhile how many games has Havili played at 13? I don't recall him playing there at

Good question, I wondered if he had to replace a 13 off the bench once, but I could not find it in stats
https://all.rugby/player/david-havili

But I do recall reading somewhere they saw him as a replacement at 13? Maybe it is just my poor memory.

But I don't see how he deserved selection over Lam. I suspect Razor is not so much conservative as loyal, but that isn't a good reason to pick him over Lam (who could be a backup winger, we did not have that many wingers, and wingers in good form).

nostrildamus

@MN5 said in Italy v All Blacks:

Settle. Let’s just see him continue to play well before putting those expectations round his neck

I said they should pick Darry, I was the first to name Blackadder "Niggles" and hazarded he'd live up to his nickname. I predicted what would happen if they brought back and played Havili, I said BB isn't in great form and has lost pace and probably confidence, and isn't, probably, our best 10 at getting the backline flowing. I'd even, during the RWC, said they had to bring in Roigard.
Apart from that chequered past, I'm doing my best to live up to the Fern statement:

"Awful analysis, incorrect conclusions, zero insight
Wrong about pretty much everything"

Let my previous post be read in that light.

canefan

@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:

I don’t have such a problem with Havili on the bench. But it does my head in that it’s not

10 McKenzie
15 Love
22 Perofeta (or swap with Love)

And the argument for Havili over Lam in the 23 jersey for this hypothetical backline would be what exactly? Given the 3 players above all cover 10 and 15?

I think Havili was in the squad and Lam was added later. It would therefore be odd to promote Lam. The coaches also have to think of squad harmony etc. If you parachute players in and play them ahead of original squad picks, Qs will be asked.

Like implying you will be parachuting a 10 who has been playing offshore for 3 years you mean?

Bones

In theory, Havili should be better suited to 13 with his skill set, but outside a player like Lam/McLeod....

canefan

@Crazy-Horse said in Italy v All Blacks:

@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Crazy-Horse said in Italy v All Blacks:

Meanwhile how many games has Havili played at 13? I don't recall him playing there at all.

It's a poor excuse to justify retaining a player who IMHO doesn't deserve to be there

Maybe, but it was an attempt to see their reasoning.

Not having a dig at you mate, just poking a hole in Razor's probable reasoning

The Silver Fern

Italy v All Blacks