Italy v All Blacks

[Billy Tell]

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:

I don’t have such a problem with Havili on the bench. But it does my head in that it’s not

10 McKenzie
15 Love
22 Perofeta (or swap with Love)

And the argument for Havili over Lam in the 23 jersey for this hypothetical backline would be what exactly? Given the 3 players above all cover 10 and 15?

I think Havili was in the squad and Lam was added later. It would therefore be odd to promote Lam. The coaches also have to think of squad harmony etc. If you parachute players in and play them ahead of original squad picks, Qs will be asked.

[Machpants]

@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:

I don’t have such a problem with Havili on the bench. But it does my head in that it’s not

10 McKenzie
15 Love
22 Perofeta (or swap with Love)

And the argument for Havili over Lam in the 23 jersey for this hypothetical backline would be what exactly? Given the 3 players above all cover 10 and 15?

I think Havili was in the squad and Lam was added later. It would therefore be odd to promote Lam. The coaches also have to think of squad harmony etc. If you parachute players in and play them ahead of original squad picks, Qs will be asked.

Questions like, why did you pick a below average AB instead of someone who has been much better? Yeah terrible questions, might show how bloody awful their picks have mostly been

[Bones]

@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:

I don’t have such a problem with Havili on the bench. But it does my head in that it’s not

10 McKenzie
15 Love
22 Perofeta (or swap with Love)

And the argument for Havili over Lam in the 23 jersey for this hypothetical backline would be what exactly? Given the 3 players above all cover 10 and 15?

I think Havili was in the squad and Lam was added later. It would therefore be odd to promote Lam. The coaches also have to think of squad harmony etc. If you parachute players in and play them ahead of original squad picks, Qs will be asked.

That would be rather two faced. Very Foster like.

[MN5]

@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:

Considering how troublesome finding a 6 has been, considering he isn't that big and plays at 8, throwing Sititi in there was inspired. Or ballsy. Or desperate. But well done him. I'm also on the Sititi as future AB captain bandwagon. Hope that isn't a jinx.

Settle. Let’s just see him continue to play well before putting those expectations round his neck

[nostrildamus]

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

Meanwhile how many games has Havili played at 13? I don't recall him playing there at

Good question, I wondered if he had to replace a 13 off the bench once, but I could not find it in stats
https://all.rugby/player/david-havili

But I do recall reading somewhere they saw him as a replacement at 13? Maybe it is just my poor memory.

But I don't see how he deserved selection over Lam. I suspect Razor is not so much conservative as loyal, but that isn't a good reason to pick him over Lam (who could be a backup winger, we did not have that many wingers, and wingers in good form).

[nostrildamus]

@MN5 said in Italy v All Blacks:

Settle. Let’s just see him continue to play well before putting those expectations round his neck

I said they should pick Darry, I was the first to name Blackadder "Niggles" and hazarded he'd live up to his nickname. I predicted what would happen if they brought back and played Havili, I said BB isn't in great form and has lost pace and probably confidence, and isn't, probably, our best 10 at getting the backline flowing. I'd even, during the RWC, said they had to bring in Roigard.
Apart from that chequered past, I'm doing my best to live up to the Fern statement:

"Awful analysis, incorrect conclusions, zero insight
Wrong about pretty much everything"

Let my previous post be read in that light.

[canefan]

@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:

I don’t have such a problem with Havili on the bench. But it does my head in that it’s not

10 McKenzie
15 Love
22 Perofeta (or swap with Love)

And the argument for Havili over Lam in the 23 jersey for this hypothetical backline would be what exactly? Given the 3 players above all cover 10 and 15?

I think Havili was in the squad and Lam was added later. It would therefore be odd to promote Lam. The coaches also have to think of squad harmony etc. If you parachute players in and play them ahead of original squad picks, Qs will be asked.

Like implying you will be parachuting a 10 who has been playing offshore for 3 years you mean?

[Bones]

In theory, Havili should be better suited to 13 with his skill set, but outside a player like Lam/McLeod....

[canefan]

@Crazy-Horse said in Italy v All Blacks:

@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Crazy-Horse said in Italy v All Blacks:

Meanwhile how many games has Havili played at 13? I don't recall him playing there at all.

It's a poor excuse to justify retaining a player who IMHO doesn't deserve to be there

Maybe, but it was an attempt to see their reasoning.

Not having a dig at you mate, just poking a hole in Razor's probable reasoning

[KiwiMurph]

@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:

I don’t have such a problem with Havili on the bench. But it does my head in that it’s not

10 McKenzie
15 Love
22 Perofeta (or swap with Love)

And the argument for Havili over Lam in the 23 jersey for this hypothetical backline would be what exactly? Given the 3 players above all cover 10 and 15?

I think Havili was in the squad and Lam was added later. It would therefore be odd to promote Lam. The coaches also have to think of squad harmony etc. If you parachute players in and play them ahead of original squad picks, Qs will be asked.

So Havili shows no form all year - gets picked on reputation (both as injury cover in July and then in the main squad for The Rugby Championship and End Of Year Tour) - shows nothing in the tests he does play this year - but because of squad harmony Havili must be picked ahead of Lam who has forced his way into the squad on form.

What kind of squad culture is that?

[canefan]

How do the other players feel about the selections of Blackadder, Havili, and Fihaki? Do they feel, as some of us feel, that some players receive special treatment and others don't? How do they feel about seemingly getting selected based on strong SR form only to not be given a chance in any meaningful games or games against tier 1 opposition? I guess Plummer made his feelings known by signing to play in France. I expect Sotutu to do the same soon. If Razor doesn't start managing the ABs as a meritocracy the greater the risk that we lose more valuable players

[sparky]

Hopefully next year, Robertson won't feel so obliged to pick so many of his old Crusader chums.

[canefan]

@sparky said in Italy v All Blacks:

Hopefully next year, Robertson won't feel so obliged to pick so many of his old Crusader chums.

Big year for Razor. If he keeps his selection policy up he will continue to lose the room on the Fern. Unless of course he wins all before him and wins well

[Victor Meldrew]

@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:

@sparky said in Italy v All Blacks:

Hopefully next year, Robertson won't feel so obliged to pick so many of his old Crusader chums.

Big year for Razor. If he keeps his selection policy up he will continue to lose the room on the Fern. Unless of course he wins all before him and wins well

FIFY

[canefan]

@Victor-Meldrew said in Italy v All Blacks:

@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:

@sparky said in Italy v All Blacks:

Hopefully next year, Robertson won't feel so obliged to pick so many of his old Crusader chums.

Big year for Razor. If he keeps his selection policy up he will continue to lose the room on the Fern. Unless of course he wins all before him and wins well

FIFY

Both things mate. And then people (probably some of his assistants) start losing their jobs

[Victor Meldrew]

@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in Italy v All Blacks:

@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:

@sparky said in Italy v All Blacks:

Hopefully next year, Robertson won't feel so obliged to pick so many of his old Crusader chums.

Big year for Razor. If he keeps his selection policy up he will continue to lose the room on the Fern. Unless of course he wins all before him and wins well

FIFY

Both things mate. And then people (probably some of his assistants) start losing their jobs

Not the losses that's the most disappointing - it's the manner of the losses. One great game followed by the same old dross we've seen for much of the year. Bit of a wasted 1st year in charge.

Needs to take a long hard look at the year and plot a better way forward - with outside help if needed.

[sparky]

It's going to be chilly but dry in Turin this evening. 1 or 2 degree Celsius for most the game.

[Nepia]

@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:

How do the other players feel about the selections of Blackadder, Havili, and Fihaki? Do they feel, as some of us feel, that some players receive special treatment and others don't? How do they feel about seemingly getting selected based on strong SR form only to not be given a chance in any meaningful games or games against tier 1 opposition? I guess Plummer made his feelings known by signing to play in France. I expect Sotutu to do the same soon. If Razor doesn't start managing the ABs as a meritocracy the greater the risk that we lose more valuable players

Which AB book was it where when Cory Flynn made the ABs they asked him on TV when he knew he was an AB and Tony Brown was at a pub in Dunedin and shouted our "when I signed with the Crusaders"?

Or did I hear that second hand and not read it in a book? Annoying, aging memory. At any rate it's not like the players would be oblivious to it.

[canefan]

@Nepia said in Italy v All Blacks:

@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:

How do the other players feel about the selections of Blackadder, Havili, and Fihaki? Do they feel, as some of us feel, that some players receive special treatment and others don't? How do they feel about seemingly getting selected based on strong SR form only to not be given a chance in any meaningful games or games against tier 1 opposition? I guess Plummer made his feelings known by signing to play in France. I expect Sotutu to do the same soon. If Razor doesn't start managing the ABs as a meritocracy the greater the risk that we lose more valuable players

Which AB book was it where when Cory Flynn made the ABs they asked him on TV when he knew he was an AB and Tony Brown was at a pub in Wellington and shouted our "when I signed with the Crusaders"?

Or did I hear that second hand and not read it in a book? Annoying, aging memory. At any rate it's not like the players would be oblivious to it.

Funny .

Part of the rationale behind budding AB coaches going away for a NH OE before ascending to the top job was so they would lose loyalties to certain players that would hinder the potential of the team. Maybe Foster and Razor are evidence that the rationale is valid. Razor still has time to prove us wrong on that one

[Tordah]

@Bones said in Italy v All Blacks:

In theory, Havili should be better suited to 13 with his skill set, but outside a player like Lam/McLeod....

Throwing intercepts and kicking cross field into touch were skills Conrad Smith didn't need during his tenure as best centre in the world