2025 All Blacks v France series
-
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
More a case of the Chiefs midfield was playing well at the time and there were some injuries / unavailability on the wing.
-
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
That cover is really important to me - you would never QT to start there, but in the event of an early injury you do need someone who can play wing - or you risk it costing you the game. And in these days of 23 man rugby it is a real disadvantage if you need to have wing cover on the bench, because it simply isn't a position where you are going to be as knackered as the forwards after 55 minutes. I think QT has to be in the 23, and on form he probably deserves to be starting at 12.
I wouldn't mind seeing (to get 6:2):
Ratima, McKenzie, Clarke, Tupaea, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Bench: Roigard, TavatavanawaiHowever, I do think Jordan is our best fullback, and it's very debatable whether it's worth losing that to get 6:2. 5:3 with Love on the bench is a more likely scenario - though to be fair neither are likely as we don't drop Barretts.
-
@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@pakman said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I couldn't bring myself to listen to more than 10 seconds of these two but Ioane on the wing sounds ok to me. More compelling than an out of sorts Clarke and a short, slow Reece.
The optimism over Rieko on the wing is doing my head in. Sure, maybe he'd go great, but it has been years since he played there, it's a position where players fall off cliffs at a young age, and he hasn't been displaying elusiveness or pace while playing at centre. It's in no way a sure thing, or even a good bet.
Caleb Clarke on the other hand, was genuinely good at international level last time the ABs played.@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@pakman said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I couldn't bring myself to listen to more than 10 seconds of these two but Ioane on the wing sounds ok to me. More compelling than an out of sorts Clarke and a short, slow Reece.
The optimism over Rieko on the wing is doing my head in. Sure, maybe he'd go great, but it has been years since he played there, it's a position where players fall off cliffs at a young age, and he hasn't been displaying elusiveness or pace while playing at centre. It's in no way a sure thing, or even a good bet.
Caleb Clarke on the other hand, was genuinely good at international level last time the ABs played.I thought the same, and then came across this clip at 12:58 in this video from the game that saved Fosters job in South Africa.
Ok, it was 2022 granted, but he had been shifted to centre at that stage.
He skins a couple of Springboks on the outside which ultimately ends up in us scoring the winning try.
There is also the try at 01:10:49 in this video in the draw against England in 2022.
Again playing at centre.
Sure he isnt as rapid as in the infancy of his career, but in both instances he gets the ball on the wing, has nobody outside him, so his mind is made up for him....pin the ears and go.
Maybe he suffers from paralysis analysis at centre.
This version of Rieko is faster than Caleb Clarke.
He might not go 80m untouched, but he can certainly stretch a defence and draw the attention of their wide D, which will open up holes elsewhere for the likes of Jordan or Proctor to find a weak shoulder.
-
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
That cover is really important to me - you would never QT to start there, but in the event of an early injury you do need someone who can play wing - or you risk it costing you the game. And in these days of 23 man rugby it is a real disadvantage if you need to have wing cover on the bench, because it simply isn't a position where you are going to be as knackered as the forwards after 55 minutes. I think QT has to be in the 23, and on form he probably deserves to be starting at 12.
I wouldn't mind seeing (to get 6:2):
Ratima, McKenzie, Clarke, Tupaea, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Bench: Roigard, TavatavanawaiHowever, I do think Jordan is our best fullback, and it's very debatable whether it's worth losing that to get 6:2. 5:3 with Love on the bench is a more likely scenario - though to be fair neither are likely as we don't drop Barretts.
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
That cover is really important to me - you would never QT to start there, but in the event of an early injury you do need someone who can play wing - or you risk it costing you the game. And in these days of 23 man rugby it is a real disadvantage if you need to have wing cover on the bench, because it simply isn't a position where you are going to be as knackered as the forwards after 55 minutes. I think QT has to be in the 23, and on form he probably deserves to be starting at 12.
I wouldn't mind seeing (to get 6:2):
Ratima, McKenzie, Clarke, Tupaea, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Bench: Roigard, TavatavanawaiHowever, I do think Jordan is our best fullback, and it's very debatable whether it's worth losing that to get 6:2. 5:3 with Love on the bench is a more likely scenario - though to be fair neither are likely as we don't drop Barretts.
Was just gonna say, three out of the 23 will DEFINITELY have Barrett as a surname.
-
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
That cover is really important to me - you would never QT to start there, but in the event of an early injury you do need someone who can play wing - or you risk it costing you the game. And in these days of 23 man rugby it is a real disadvantage if you need to have wing cover on the bench, because it simply isn't a position where you are going to be as knackered as the forwards after 55 minutes. I think QT has to be in the 23, and on form he probably deserves to be starting at 12.
I wouldn't mind seeing (to get 6:2):
Ratima, McKenzie, Clarke, Tupaea, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Bench: Roigard, TavatavanawaiHowever, I do think Jordan is our best fullback, and it's very debatable whether it's worth losing that to get 6:2. 5:3 with Love on the bench is a more likely scenario - though to be fair neither are likely as we don't drop Barretts.
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
That cover is really important to me - you would never QT to start there, but in the event of an early injury you do need someone who can play wing - or you risk it costing you the game. And in these days of 23 man rugby it is a real disadvantage if you need to have wing cover on the bench, because it simply isn't a position where you are going to be as knackered as the forwards after 55 minutes. I think QT has to be in the 23, and on form he probably deserves to be starting at 12.
I wouldn't mind seeing (to get 6:2):
Ratima, McKenzie, Clarke, Tupaea, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Bench: Roigard, TavatavanawaiHowever, I do think Jordan is our best fullback, and it's very debatable whether it's worth losing that to get 6:2. 5:3 with Love on the bench is a more likely scenario - though to be fair neither are likely as we don't drop Barretts.
I like that backline but would start Roigard over Ratima, but I think we need to leave Jordan at 15. Providing Love minutes off the bench this year (whether that's 10 or 15) will be the ideal way to go IMO.
-
One thing about Jordan is he had the most turnovers lost for the ABs last year and also this year in Super Rugby. I think that might indicate he still needs to work on his option taking.
-
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
That cover is really important to me - you would never QT to start there, but in the event of an early injury you do need someone who can play wing - or you risk it costing you the game. And in these days of 23 man rugby it is a real disadvantage if you need to have wing cover on the bench, because it simply isn't a position where you are going to be as knackered as the forwards after 55 minutes. I think QT has to be in the 23, and on form he probably deserves to be starting at 12.
I wouldn't mind seeing (to get 6:2):
Ratima, McKenzie, Clarke, Tupaea, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Bench: Roigard, TavatavanawaiHowever, I do think Jordan is our best fullback, and it's very debatable whether it's worth losing that to get 6:2. 5:3 with Love on the bench is a more likely scenario - though to be fair neither are likely as we don't drop Barretts.
I like that backline but would start Roigard over Ratima, but I think we need to leave Jordan at 15. Providing Love minutes off the bench this year (whether that's 10 or 15) will be the ideal way to go IMO.
@Canes4life said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
That cover is really important to me - you would never QT to start there, but in the event of an early injury you do need someone who can play wing - or you risk it costing you the game. And in these days of 23 man rugby it is a real disadvantage if you need to have wing cover on the bench, because it simply isn't a position where you are going to be as knackered as the forwards after 55 minutes. I think QT has to be in the 23, and on form he probably deserves to be starting at 12.
I wouldn't mind seeing (to get 6:2):
Ratima, McKenzie, Clarke, Tupaea, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Bench: Roigard, TavatavanawaiHowever, I do think Jordan is our best fullback, and it's very debatable whether it's worth losing that to get 6:2. 5:3 with Love on the bench is a more likely scenario - though to be fair neither are likely as we don't drop Barretts.
I like that backline but would start Roigard over Ratima, but I think we need to leave Jordan at 15. Providing Love minutes off the bench this year (whether that's 10 or 15) will be the ideal way to go IMO.
Yeah, if Tangitau wasn't injured I'd love to see him Jordan and Clarke as the back 3. And ideally I'd introduce Love off the bench too - but we saw last year trying to play at pace against teams that are bringing on lots of fresh forwards, we were the team being stuffed at the end of games - so I think that 6:2 bench is worth serious consideration.
My thoughts on Roigard are in a bit of a similar vein: his kicking game is the best we have at 9, and with our last 15-20 minutes tending to get pretty ratty, I think his best value right now to the ABs is to be on the field late in games still relatively fresh and getting us field position - taking pressure off either McKenzie (knackered from a million touches) or Love (newbie and the benefit of an established combo). I'd bring him on at half time or just after.
-
Roigard should be on the field as much as possible. There's daylight between him and the other two.
-
@Canes4life said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
That cover is really important to me - you would never QT to start there, but in the event of an early injury you do need someone who can play wing - or you risk it costing you the game. And in these days of 23 man rugby it is a real disadvantage if you need to have wing cover on the bench, because it simply isn't a position where you are going to be as knackered as the forwards after 55 minutes. I think QT has to be in the 23, and on form he probably deserves to be starting at 12.
I wouldn't mind seeing (to get 6:2):
Ratima, McKenzie, Clarke, Tupaea, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Bench: Roigard, TavatavanawaiHowever, I do think Jordan is our best fullback, and it's very debatable whether it's worth losing that to get 6:2. 5:3 with Love on the bench is a more likely scenario - though to be fair neither are likely as we don't drop Barretts.
I like that backline but would start Roigard over Ratima, but I think we need to leave Jordan at 15. Providing Love minutes off the bench this year (whether that's 10 or 15) will be the ideal way to go IMO.
Yeah, if Tangitau wasn't injured I'd love to see him Jordan and Clarke as the back 3. And ideally I'd introduce Love off the bench too - but we saw last year trying to play at pace against teams that are bringing on lots of fresh forwards, we were the team being stuffed at the end of games - so I think that 6:2 bench is worth serious consideration.
My thoughts on Roigard are in a bit of a similar vein: his kicking game is the best we have at 9, and with our last 15-20 minutes tending to get pretty ratty, I think his best value right now to the ABs is to be on the field late in games still relatively fresh and getting us field position - taking pressure off either McKenzie (knackered from a million touches) or Love (newbie and the benefit of an established combo). I'd bring him on at half time or just after.
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Canes4life said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
That cover is really important to me - you would never QT to start there, but in the event of an early injury you do need someone who can play wing - or you risk it costing you the game. And in these days of 23 man rugby it is a real disadvantage if you need to have wing cover on the bench, because it simply isn't a position where you are going to be as knackered as the forwards after 55 minutes. I think QT has to be in the 23, and on form he probably deserves to be starting at 12.
I wouldn't mind seeing (to get 6:2):
Ratima, McKenzie, Clarke, Tupaea, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Bench: Roigard, TavatavanawaiHowever, I do think Jordan is our best fullback, and it's very debatable whether it's worth losing that to get 6:2. 5:3 with Love on the bench is a more likely scenario - though to be fair neither are likely as we don't drop Barretts.
I like that backline but would start Roigard over Ratima, but I think we need to leave Jordan at 15. Providing Love minutes off the bench this year (whether that's 10 or 15) will be the ideal way to go IMO.
Yeah, if Tangitau wasn't injured I'd love to see him Jordan and Clarke as the back 3. And ideally I'd introduce Love off the bench too - but we saw last year trying to play at pace against teams that are bringing on lots of fresh forwards, we were the team being stuffed at the end of games - so I think that 6:2 bench is worth serious consideration.
My thoughts on Roigard are in a bit of a similar vein: his kicking game is the best we have at 9, and with our last 15-20 minutes tending to get pretty ratty, I think his best value right now to the ABs is to be on the field late in games still relatively fresh and getting us field position - taking pressure off either McKenzie (knackered from a million touches) or Love (newbie and the benefit of an established combo). I'd bring him on at half time or just after.
I think you have to start your best players and Roigard, despite not quite hitting the heights of where he was at preinjury, he is still clearly seen as the number 1 halfback in NZ, therefore he definitely starts for me. I was interested by Marshall's comments on the Breakdown that he would prefer Hotham off the bench but obviously that's his Cantab bias creeping through.
I think most Ferners would agree on the Tangitau comment, he seemed to have everything we require in a test level wing. I'm still not sold on Caleb Clarke, he's got to prove himself again after a pretty average Super season where he didn't score a try. Right now, I would pick Ioane on the wing over him and I've got a feeling that's where the selectors are moving.
-
That's the backs MOTM poll for our last French test. Clarke may have had a mediocre Super season, but not starting him at 11 for some Rieko pipe-dream would be absurd. If Clarke underperforms in black then sure, give someone else a go.
On Roigard: I don't think you have to start your best players, and I think SA have proved it. I think you have to win games, and that means combinations which allow you to be the better team on the park for 80 minutes.
-
I'd suggest Caleb Tangitau needs to work on his defensive workrate and accuracy. Based on these Carter would seem a better option that Tangitau for test rugby.
Tackle Success
92.6% Emoni Narawa
90.6% Jonah Lowe
88.2% Mark Tele'a
85.2% Macca Springer
84.7% Sevu Reece
82.6% Caleb Clarke
81.4% Kini Naholo
80.2% Leroy Carter
72.4% Caleb Tangitau
72.3% Chay FihakiTackles Per 80 Minutes
9.17 Macca Springer
8.4 Mark Tele'a
7.82 Caleb Clarke
7.74 Chay Fihaki
7.56 Leroy Carter
6.68 Kini Naholo
6.54 Sevu Reece
6.05 Jonah Lowe
5.63 Emoni Narawa
4.56 Caleb TangitauClarke and Tele'a look pretty good defence wise in these metrics.
-
That's the backs MOTM poll for our last French test. Clarke may have had a mediocre Super season, but not starting him at 11 for some Rieko pipe-dream would be absurd. If Clarke underperforms in black then sure, give someone else a go.
On Roigard: I don't think you have to start your best players, and I think SA have proved it. I think you have to win games, and that means combinations which allow you to be the better team on the park for 80 minutes.
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
That's the backs MOTM poll for our last French test. Clarke may have had a mediocre Super season, but not starting him at 11 for some Rieko pipe-dream would be absurd. If Clarke underperforms in black then sure, give someone else a go.
On Roigard: I don't think you have to start your best players, and I think SA have proved it. I think you have to win games, and that means combinations which allow you to be the better team on the park for 80 minutes.
I'll be very surprised if we don't see Roigard starting in the weekend. He's World Class, and just like DMac for the Chiefs, Jordan for the Crusaders and Beaudy for the Blues, Roigard has proven to be the difference maker for the Canes in the last few years and has the ability to turn a match on its head.
Who cares what the Saffas are doing, we need to start our best side available. Ratima and Hotham suit that bench role more than Roigard, Ratima showed that for the Chiefs this year so for me he will be the frontrunner for that spot.
-
Ratima had some poor games last year and I'm not convinced he's currently test standard. There were a number of games this year where the Chiefs looked better when Roe came on.
At the moment it's Roigard starting with Hotham off the bench for me.
-
Ratima had some poor games last year and I'm not convinced he's currently test standard. There were a number of games this year where the Chiefs looked better when Roe came on.
At the moment it's Roigard starting with Hotham off the bench for me.
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Ratima had some poor games last year and I'm not convinced he's currently test standard. There were a number of games this year where the Chiefs looked better when Roe came on.
At the moment it's Roigard starting with Hotham off the bench for me.
Fair enough, funny though, I'm still not convinced on Hotham. He had some absolute shockers this year for the Crusaders but seemed to come right in the finals which I suppose is an important factor. I think for the first test at least we'll see Roigard start and Ratima off the bench.
Does anyone know when the ABs are being named for this week? Is it Wednesday afternoon like Super Rugby or do we not find out until Thursday?
-
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
That cover is really important to me - you would never QT to start there, but in the event of an early injury you do need someone who can play wing - or you risk it costing you the game. And in these days of 23 man rugby it is a real disadvantage if you need to have wing cover on the bench, because it simply isn't a position where you are going to be as knackered as the forwards after 55 minutes. I think QT has to be in the 23, and on form he probably deserves to be starting at 12.
I wouldn't mind seeing (to get 6:2):
Ratima, McKenzie, Clarke, Tupaea, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Bench: Roigard, TavatavanawaiHowever, I do think Jordan is our best fullback, and it's very debatable whether it's worth losing that to get 6:2. 5:3 with Love on the bench is a more likely scenario - though to be fair neither are likely as we don't drop Barretts.
Was just gonna say, three out of the 23 will DEFINITELY have Barrett as a surname.
@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Was just gonna say, three out of the 23 will DEFINITELY have Barrett as a surname.
In that video interview/convo you only watched a few seconds of they basically narrowed it down to
DMac QT and RI or (the Northeners) OR
BB JB and BP (Canes and ex-Canes)Sounds possible to me.
-
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
That's the backs MOTM poll for our last French test. Clarke may have had a mediocre Super season, but not starting him at 11 for some Rieko pipe-dream would be absurd. If Clarke underperforms in black then sure, give someone else a go.
On Roigard: I don't think you have to start your best players, and I think SA have proved it. I think you have to win games, and that means combinations which allow you to be the better team on the park for 80 minutes.
I'll be very surprised if we don't see Roigard starting in the weekend. He's World Class, and just like DMac for the Chiefs, Jordan for the Crusaders and Beaudy for the Blues, Roigard has proven to be the difference maker for the Canes in the last few years and has the ability to turn a match on its head.
Who cares what the Saffas are doing, we need to start our best side available. Ratima and Hotham suit that bench role more than Roigard, Ratima showed that for the Chiefs this year so for me he will be the frontrunner for that spot.
@Canes4life said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
That's the backs MOTM poll for our last French test. Clarke may have had a mediocre Super season, but not starting him at 11 for some Rieko pipe-dream would be absurd. If Clarke underperforms in black then sure, give someone else a go.
On Roigard: I don't think you have to start your best players, and I think SA have proved it. I think you have to win games, and that means combinations which allow you to be the better team on the park for 80 minutes.
I'll be very surprised if we don't see Roigard starting in the weekend. He's World Class, and just like DMac for the Chiefs, Jordan for the Crusaders and Beaudy for the Blues, Roigard has proven to be the difference maker for the Canes in the last few years and has the ability to turn a match on its head.
Who cares what the Saffas are doing, we need to start our best side available. Ratima and Hotham suit that bench role more than Roigard, Ratima showed that for the Chiefs this year so for me he will be the frontrunner for that spot.
I think you should care what they're doing, when they're beating us.
Boks 1: we dominated for 60 minutes, were up 4 tries to 1 I think - then were taken apart in the last 20 to end up losing - overtaken in the 74th minute.
Boks 2 - overtaken in the 73rd minute.
Cam Roigard can't change those results if he isn't on the field anymore - and my preference for him on the bench is not a slight. Even you Canes die-hards would probably admit that he can't play 80 minutes, and in my opinion Ratima's kicking is dodgy and we need kicking late in the game. -
I'd suggest Caleb Tangitau needs to work on his defensive workrate and accuracy. Based on these Carter would seem a better option that Tangitau for test rugby.
Tackle Success
92.6% Emoni Narawa
90.6% Jonah Lowe
88.2% Mark Tele'a
85.2% Macca Springer
84.7% Sevu Reece
82.6% Caleb Clarke
81.4% Kini Naholo
80.2% Leroy Carter
72.4% Caleb Tangitau
72.3% Chay FihakiTackles Per 80 Minutes
9.17 Macca Springer
8.4 Mark Tele'a
7.82 Caleb Clarke
7.74 Chay Fihaki
7.56 Leroy Carter
6.68 Kini Naholo
6.54 Sevu Reece
6.05 Jonah Lowe
5.63 Emoni Narawa
4.56 Caleb TangitauClarke and Tele'a look pretty good defence wise in these metrics.
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I'd suggest Caleb Tangitau needs to work on his defensive workrate and accuracy. Based on these Carter would seem a better option that Tangitau for test rugby.
and this article says Carter is the fastest
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/fastest-in-new-zealand-the-shock-revelation-on-snubbed-all-black-prospect/But didn't look very settled to me in his last game.
-
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I'd suggest Caleb Tangitau needs to work on his defensive workrate and accuracy. Based on these Carter would seem a better option that Tangitau for test rugby.
and this article says Carter is the fastest
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/fastest-in-new-zealand-the-shock-revelation-on-snubbed-all-black-prospect/But didn't look very settled to me in his last game.
@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I'd suggest Caleb Tangitau needs to work on his defensive workrate and accuracy. Based on these Carter would seem a better option that Tangitau for test rugby.
and this article says Carter is the fastest
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/fastest-in-new-zealand-the-shock-revelation-on-snubbed-all-black-prospect/But didn't look very settled to me in his last game.
The fastest would be Michael Manson. He just doesn't have the other necessary components to support his speed.
