2025 All Blacks v France series
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@Canes4life said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
That cover is really important to me - you would never QT to start there, but in the event of an early injury you do need someone who can play wing - or you risk it costing you the game. And in these days of 23 man rugby it is a real disadvantage if you need to have wing cover on the bench, because it simply isn't a position where you are going to be as knackered as the forwards after 55 minutes. I think QT has to be in the 23, and on form he probably deserves to be starting at 12.
I wouldn't mind seeing (to get 6:2):
Ratima, McKenzie, Clarke, Tupaea, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Bench: Roigard, TavatavanawaiHowever, I do think Jordan is our best fullback, and it's very debatable whether it's worth losing that to get 6:2. 5:3 with Love on the bench is a more likely scenario - though to be fair neither are likely as we don't drop Barretts.
I like that backline but would start Roigard over Ratima, but I think we need to leave Jordan at 15. Providing Love minutes off the bench this year (whether that's 10 or 15) will be the ideal way to go IMO.
Yeah, if Tangitau wasn't injured I'd love to see him Jordan and Clarke as the back 3. And ideally I'd introduce Love off the bench too - but we saw last year trying to play at pace against teams that are bringing on lots of fresh forwards, we were the team being stuffed at the end of games - so I think that 6:2 bench is worth serious consideration.
My thoughts on Roigard are in a bit of a similar vein: his kicking game is the best we have at 9, and with our last 15-20 minutes tending to get pretty ratty, I think his best value right now to the ABs is to be on the field late in games still relatively fresh and getting us field position - taking pressure off either McKenzie (knackered from a million touches) or Love (newbie and the benefit of an established combo). I'd bring him on at half time or just after.
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Canes4life said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
That cover is really important to me - you would never QT to start there, but in the event of an early injury you do need someone who can play wing - or you risk it costing you the game. And in these days of 23 man rugby it is a real disadvantage if you need to have wing cover on the bench, because it simply isn't a position where you are going to be as knackered as the forwards after 55 minutes. I think QT has to be in the 23, and on form he probably deserves to be starting at 12.
I wouldn't mind seeing (to get 6:2):
Ratima, McKenzie, Clarke, Tupaea, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Bench: Roigard, TavatavanawaiHowever, I do think Jordan is our best fullback, and it's very debatable whether it's worth losing that to get 6:2. 5:3 with Love on the bench is a more likely scenario - though to be fair neither are likely as we don't drop Barretts.
I like that backline but would start Roigard over Ratima, but I think we need to leave Jordan at 15. Providing Love minutes off the bench this year (whether that's 10 or 15) will be the ideal way to go IMO.
Yeah, if Tangitau wasn't injured I'd love to see him Jordan and Clarke as the back 3. And ideally I'd introduce Love off the bench too - but we saw last year trying to play at pace against teams that are bringing on lots of fresh forwards, we were the team being stuffed at the end of games - so I think that 6:2 bench is worth serious consideration.
My thoughts on Roigard are in a bit of a similar vein: his kicking game is the best we have at 9, and with our last 15-20 minutes tending to get pretty ratty, I think his best value right now to the ABs is to be on the field late in games still relatively fresh and getting us field position - taking pressure off either McKenzie (knackered from a million touches) or Love (newbie and the benefit of an established combo). I'd bring him on at half time or just after.
I think you have to start your best players and Roigard, despite not quite hitting the heights of where he was at preinjury, he is still clearly seen as the number 1 halfback in NZ, therefore he definitely starts for me. I was interested by Marshall's comments on the Breakdown that he would prefer Hotham off the bench but obviously that's his Cantab bias creeping through.
I think most Ferners would agree on the Tangitau comment, he seemed to have everything we require in a test level wing. I'm still not sold on Caleb Clarke, he's got to prove himself again after a pretty average Super season where he didn't score a try. Right now, I would pick Ioane on the wing over him and I've got a feeling that's where the selectors are moving.
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That's the backs MOTM poll for our last French test. Clarke may have had a mediocre Super season, but not starting him at 11 for some Rieko pipe-dream would be absurd. If Clarke underperforms in black then sure, give someone else a go.
On Roigard: I don't think you have to start your best players, and I think SA have proved it. I think you have to win games, and that means combinations which allow you to be the better team on the park for 80 minutes.
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I'd suggest Caleb Tangitau needs to work on his defensive workrate and accuracy. Based on these Carter would seem a better option that Tangitau for test rugby.
Tackle Success
92.6% Emoni Narawa
90.6% Jonah Lowe
88.2% Mark Tele'a
85.2% Macca Springer
84.7% Sevu Reece
82.6% Caleb Clarke
81.4% Kini Naholo
80.2% Leroy Carter
72.4% Caleb Tangitau
72.3% Chay FihakiTackles Per 80 Minutes
9.17 Macca Springer
8.4 Mark Tele'a
7.82 Caleb Clarke
7.74 Chay Fihaki
7.56 Leroy Carter
6.68 Kini Naholo
6.54 Sevu Reece
6.05 Jonah Lowe
5.63 Emoni Narawa
4.56 Caleb TangitauClarke and Tele'a look pretty good defence wise in these metrics.
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That's the backs MOTM poll for our last French test. Clarke may have had a mediocre Super season, but not starting him at 11 for some Rieko pipe-dream would be absurd. If Clarke underperforms in black then sure, give someone else a go.
On Roigard: I don't think you have to start your best players, and I think SA have proved it. I think you have to win games, and that means combinations which allow you to be the better team on the park for 80 minutes.
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
That's the backs MOTM poll for our last French test. Clarke may have had a mediocre Super season, but not starting him at 11 for some Rieko pipe-dream would be absurd. If Clarke underperforms in black then sure, give someone else a go.
On Roigard: I don't think you have to start your best players, and I think SA have proved it. I think you have to win games, and that means combinations which allow you to be the better team on the park for 80 minutes.
I'll be very surprised if we don't see Roigard starting in the weekend. He's World Class, and just like DMac for the Chiefs, Jordan for the Crusaders and Beaudy for the Blues, Roigard has proven to be the difference maker for the Canes in the last few years and has the ability to turn a match on its head.
Who cares what the Saffas are doing, we need to start our best side available. Ratima and Hotham suit that bench role more than Roigard, Ratima showed that for the Chiefs this year so for me he will be the frontrunner for that spot.
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Ratima had some poor games last year and I'm not convinced he's currently test standard. There were a number of games this year where the Chiefs looked better when Roe came on.
At the moment it's Roigard starting with Hotham off the bench for me.
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Ratima had some poor games last year and I'm not convinced he's currently test standard. There were a number of games this year where the Chiefs looked better when Roe came on.
At the moment it's Roigard starting with Hotham off the bench for me.
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Ratima had some poor games last year and I'm not convinced he's currently test standard. There were a number of games this year where the Chiefs looked better when Roe came on.
At the moment it's Roigard starting with Hotham off the bench for me.
Fair enough, funny though, I'm still not convinced on Hotham. He had some absolute shockers this year for the Crusaders but seemed to come right in the finals which I suppose is an important factor. I think for the first test at least we'll see Roigard start and Ratima off the bench.
Does anyone know when the ABs are being named for this week? Is it Wednesday afternoon like Super Rugby or do we not find out until Thursday?
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@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@gt12 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Hasn't QT played a little bit of wing for the Chiefs too?
Yeah, last year he spent quite a bit of time out there on his return.
That cover is really important to me - you would never QT to start there, but in the event of an early injury you do need someone who can play wing - or you risk it costing you the game. And in these days of 23 man rugby it is a real disadvantage if you need to have wing cover on the bench, because it simply isn't a position where you are going to be as knackered as the forwards after 55 minutes. I think QT has to be in the 23, and on form he probably deserves to be starting at 12.
I wouldn't mind seeing (to get 6:2):
Ratima, McKenzie, Clarke, Tupaea, Proctor, Jordan, Love. Bench: Roigard, TavatavanawaiHowever, I do think Jordan is our best fullback, and it's very debatable whether it's worth losing that to get 6:2. 5:3 with Love on the bench is a more likely scenario - though to be fair neither are likely as we don't drop Barretts.
Was just gonna say, three out of the 23 will DEFINITELY have Barrett as a surname.
@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Was just gonna say, three out of the 23 will DEFINITELY have Barrett as a surname.
In that video interview/convo you only watched a few seconds of they basically narrowed it down to
DMac QT and RI or (the Northeners) OR
BB JB and BP (Canes and ex-Canes)Sounds possible to me.
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@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
That's the backs MOTM poll for our last French test. Clarke may have had a mediocre Super season, but not starting him at 11 for some Rieko pipe-dream would be absurd. If Clarke underperforms in black then sure, give someone else a go.
On Roigard: I don't think you have to start your best players, and I think SA have proved it. I think you have to win games, and that means combinations which allow you to be the better team on the park for 80 minutes.
I'll be very surprised if we don't see Roigard starting in the weekend. He's World Class, and just like DMac for the Chiefs, Jordan for the Crusaders and Beaudy for the Blues, Roigard has proven to be the difference maker for the Canes in the last few years and has the ability to turn a match on its head.
Who cares what the Saffas are doing, we need to start our best side available. Ratima and Hotham suit that bench role more than Roigard, Ratima showed that for the Chiefs this year so for me he will be the frontrunner for that spot.
@Canes4life said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
That's the backs MOTM poll for our last French test. Clarke may have had a mediocre Super season, but not starting him at 11 for some Rieko pipe-dream would be absurd. If Clarke underperforms in black then sure, give someone else a go.
On Roigard: I don't think you have to start your best players, and I think SA have proved it. I think you have to win games, and that means combinations which allow you to be the better team on the park for 80 minutes.
I'll be very surprised if we don't see Roigard starting in the weekend. He's World Class, and just like DMac for the Chiefs, Jordan for the Crusaders and Beaudy for the Blues, Roigard has proven to be the difference maker for the Canes in the last few years and has the ability to turn a match on its head.
Who cares what the Saffas are doing, we need to start our best side available. Ratima and Hotham suit that bench role more than Roigard, Ratima showed that for the Chiefs this year so for me he will be the frontrunner for that spot.
I think you should care what they're doing, when they're beating us.
Boks 1: we dominated for 60 minutes, were up 4 tries to 1 I think - then were taken apart in the last 20 to end up losing - overtaken in the 74th minute.
Boks 2 - overtaken in the 73rd minute.
Cam Roigard can't change those results if he isn't on the field anymore - and my preference for him on the bench is not a slight. Even you Canes die-hards would probably admit that he can't play 80 minutes, and in my opinion Ratima's kicking is dodgy and we need kicking late in the game. -
I'd suggest Caleb Tangitau needs to work on his defensive workrate and accuracy. Based on these Carter would seem a better option that Tangitau for test rugby.
Tackle Success
92.6% Emoni Narawa
90.6% Jonah Lowe
88.2% Mark Tele'a
85.2% Macca Springer
84.7% Sevu Reece
82.6% Caleb Clarke
81.4% Kini Naholo
80.2% Leroy Carter
72.4% Caleb Tangitau
72.3% Chay FihakiTackles Per 80 Minutes
9.17 Macca Springer
8.4 Mark Tele'a
7.82 Caleb Clarke
7.74 Chay Fihaki
7.56 Leroy Carter
6.68 Kini Naholo
6.54 Sevu Reece
6.05 Jonah Lowe
5.63 Emoni Narawa
4.56 Caleb TangitauClarke and Tele'a look pretty good defence wise in these metrics.
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I'd suggest Caleb Tangitau needs to work on his defensive workrate and accuracy. Based on these Carter would seem a better option that Tangitau for test rugby.
and this article says Carter is the fastest
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/fastest-in-new-zealand-the-shock-revelation-on-snubbed-all-black-prospect/But didn't look very settled to me in his last game.
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@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I'd suggest Caleb Tangitau needs to work on his defensive workrate and accuracy. Based on these Carter would seem a better option that Tangitau for test rugby.
and this article says Carter is the fastest
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/fastest-in-new-zealand-the-shock-revelation-on-snubbed-all-black-prospect/But didn't look very settled to me in his last game.
@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I'd suggest Caleb Tangitau needs to work on his defensive workrate and accuracy. Based on these Carter would seem a better option that Tangitau for test rugby.
and this article says Carter is the fastest
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/fastest-in-new-zealand-the-shock-revelation-on-snubbed-all-black-prospect/But didn't look very settled to me in his last game.
The fastest would be Michael Manson. He just doesn't have the other necessary components to support his speed.
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@hikastags said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Rieko Ioane posted a photo today from training with Ah Kuoi in the background.
I wonder what number Ioane was wearing..
@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@hikastags said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Rieko Ioane posted a photo today from training with Ah Kuoi in the background.
I wonder what number Ioane was wearing..
11
Rieko has been training exclusively at wing. Zero reps in the midfield. -
@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@hikastags said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Rieko Ioane posted a photo today from training with Ah Kuoi in the background.
I wonder what number Ioane was wearing..
11
Rieko has been training exclusively at wing. Zero reps in the midfield. -
@Canes4life said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
That's the backs MOTM poll for our last French test. Clarke may have had a mediocre Super season, but not starting him at 11 for some Rieko pipe-dream would be absurd. If Clarke underperforms in black then sure, give someone else a go.
On Roigard: I don't think you have to start your best players, and I think SA have proved it. I think you have to win games, and that means combinations which allow you to be the better team on the park for 80 minutes.
I'll be very surprised if we don't see Roigard starting in the weekend. He's World Class, and just like DMac for the Chiefs, Jordan for the Crusaders and Beaudy for the Blues, Roigard has proven to be the difference maker for the Canes in the last few years and has the ability to turn a match on its head.
Who cares what the Saffas are doing, we need to start our best side available. Ratima and Hotham suit that bench role more than Roigard, Ratima showed that for the Chiefs this year so for me he will be the frontrunner for that spot.
I think you should care what they're doing, when they're beating us.
Boks 1: we dominated for 60 minutes, were up 4 tries to 1 I think - then were taken apart in the last 20 to end up losing - overtaken in the 74th minute.
Boks 2 - overtaken in the 73rd minute.
Cam Roigard can't change those results if he isn't on the field anymore - and my preference for him on the bench is not a slight. Even you Canes die-hards would probably admit that he can't play 80 minutes, and in my opinion Ratima's kicking is dodgy and we need kicking late in the game.@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Canes4life said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
That's the backs MOTM poll for our last French test. Clarke may have had a mediocre Super season, but not starting him at 11 for some Rieko pipe-dream would be absurd. If Clarke underperforms in black then sure, give someone else a go.
On Roigard: I don't think you have to start your best players, and I think SA have proved it. I think you have to win games, and that means combinations which allow you to be the better team on the park for 80 minutes.
I'll be very surprised if we don't see Roigard starting in the weekend. He's World Class, and just like DMac for the Chiefs, Jordan for the Crusaders and Beaudy for the Blues, Roigard has proven to be the difference maker for the Canes in the last few years and has the ability to turn a match on its head.
Who cares what the Saffas are doing, we need to start our best side available. Ratima and Hotham suit that bench role more than Roigard, Ratima showed that for the Chiefs this year so for me he will be the frontrunner for that spot.
I think you should care what they're doing, when they're beating us.
Boks 1: we dominated for 60 minutes, were up 4 tries to 1 I think - then were taken apart in the last 20 to end up losing - overtaken in the 74th minute.
Boks 2 - overtaken in the 73rd minute.
Cam Roigard can't change those results if he isn't on the field anymore - and my preference for him on the bench is not a slight. Even you Canes die-hards would probably admit that he can't play 80 minutes, and in my opinion Ratima's kicking is dodgy and we need kicking late in the game.I think we should focus on ourselves. We aren't the same as the Springoks, we need to find our own way of playing that will put us back to the top of the pile. They aren't much better than us and I think we have an improving squad that will be competing for that number 1 position by the end of the year.
Fair enough mate, it's your opinion. I just think we need our best players on the park from the get go. Hopefully Ratima or Hotham can step up and provide that quality impact we are after late in a game.
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i dont hate it, clarke was less the stellar during SR, give him a couple of weeks for the coaches to...coach him, allow us to experiment in the midfield against an understrength French side
@Kiwiwomble said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
i dont hate it, clarke was less the stellar during SR, give him a couple of weeks for the coaches to...coach him, allow us to experiment in the midfield against an understrength French side
This. Good opportunity to see what Rieko brings at wing in 2025 - if not now then when
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I'd suggest Caleb Tangitau needs to work on his defensive workrate and accuracy. Based on these Carter would seem a better option that Tangitau for test rugby.
Tackle Success
92.6% Emoni Narawa
90.6% Jonah Lowe
88.2% Mark Tele'a
85.2% Macca Springer
84.7% Sevu Reece
82.6% Caleb Clarke
81.4% Kini Naholo
80.2% Leroy Carter
72.4% Caleb Tangitau
72.3% Chay FihakiTackles Per 80 Minutes
9.17 Macca Springer
8.4 Mark Tele'a
7.82 Caleb Clarke
7.74 Chay Fihaki
7.56 Leroy Carter
6.68 Kini Naholo
6.54 Sevu Reece
6.05 Jonah Lowe
5.63 Emoni Narawa
4.56 Caleb TangitauClarke and Tele'a look pretty good defence wise in these metrics.
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I'd suggest Caleb Tangitau needs to work on his defensive workrate and accuracy. Based on these Carter would seem a better option that Tangitau for test rugby.
Tackle Success
92.6% Emoni Narawa
90.6% Jonah Lowe
88.2% Mark Tele'a
85.2% Macca Springer
84.7% Sevu Reece
82.6% Caleb Clarke
81.4% Kini Naholo
80.2% Leroy Carter
72.4% Caleb Tangitau
72.3% Chay FihakiTackles Per 80 Minutes
9.17 Macca Springer
8.4 Mark Tele'a
7.82 Caleb Clarke
7.74 Chay Fihaki
7.56 Leroy Carter
6.68 Kini Naholo
6.54 Sevu Reece
6.05 Jonah Lowe
5.63 Emoni Narawa
4.56 Caleb TangitauClarke and Tele'a look pretty good defence wise in these metrics.
That could all be a product of playing for the highlanders though.
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@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I'd suggest Caleb Tangitau needs to work on his defensive workrate and accuracy. Based on these Carter would seem a better option that Tangitau for test rugby.
Tackle Success
92.6% Emoni Narawa
90.6% Jonah Lowe
88.2% Mark Tele'a
85.2% Macca Springer
84.7% Sevu Reece
82.6% Caleb Clarke
81.4% Kini Naholo
80.2% Leroy Carter
72.4% Caleb Tangitau
72.3% Chay FihakiTackles Per 80 Minutes
9.17 Macca Springer
8.4 Mark Tele'a
7.82 Caleb Clarke
7.74 Chay Fihaki
7.56 Leroy Carter
6.68 Kini Naholo
6.54 Sevu Reece
6.05 Jonah Lowe
5.63 Emoni Narawa
4.56 Caleb TangitauClarke and Tele'a look pretty good defence wise in these metrics.
That could all be a product of playing for the highlanders though.
@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I'd suggest Caleb Tangitau needs to work on his defensive workrate and accuracy. Based on these Carter would seem a better option that Tangitau for test rugby.
Tackle Success
92.6% Emoni Narawa
90.6% Jonah Lowe
88.2% Mark Tele'a
85.2% Macca Springer
84.7% Sevu Reece
82.6% Caleb Clarke
81.4% Kini Naholo
80.2% Leroy Carter
72.4% Caleb Tangitau
72.3% Chay FihakiTackles Per 80 Minutes
9.17 Macca Springer
8.4 Mark Tele'a
7.82 Caleb Clarke
7.74 Chay Fihaki
7.56 Leroy Carter
6.68 Kini Naholo
6.54 Sevu Reece
6.05 Jonah Lowe
5.63 Emoni Narawa
4.56 Caleb TangitauClarke and Tele'a look pretty good defence wise in these metrics.
That could all be a product of playing for the highlanders though.
Are you trying to say the Highlanders are a team full of poor defenders, which is why they came last, and besides that we shouldn't pick too many players who lose more often than not?
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@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I'd suggest Caleb Tangitau needs to work on his defensive workrate and accuracy. Based on these Carter would seem a better option that Tangitau for test rugby.
Tackle Success
92.6% Emoni Narawa
90.6% Jonah Lowe
88.2% Mark Tele'a
85.2% Macca Springer
84.7% Sevu Reece
82.6% Caleb Clarke
81.4% Kini Naholo
80.2% Leroy Carter
72.4% Caleb Tangitau
72.3% Chay FihakiTackles Per 80 Minutes
9.17 Macca Springer
8.4 Mark Tele'a
7.82 Caleb Clarke
7.74 Chay Fihaki
7.56 Leroy Carter
6.68 Kini Naholo
6.54 Sevu Reece
6.05 Jonah Lowe
5.63 Emoni Narawa
4.56 Caleb TangitauClarke and Tele'a look pretty good defence wise in these metrics.
That could all be a product of playing for the highlanders though.
Are you trying to say the Highlanders are a team full of poor defenders, which is why they came last, and besides that we shouldn't pick too many players who lose more often than not?
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@brodean said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
I'd suggest Caleb Tangitau needs to work on his defensive workrate and accuracy. Based on these Carter would seem a better option that Tangitau for test rugby.
Tackle Success
92.6% Emoni Narawa
90.6% Jonah Lowe
88.2% Mark Tele'a
85.2% Macca Springer
84.7% Sevu Reece
82.6% Caleb Clarke
81.4% Kini Naholo
80.2% Leroy Carter
72.4% Caleb Tangitau
72.3% Chay FihakiTackles Per 80 Minutes
9.17 Macca Springer
8.4 Mark Tele'a
7.82 Caleb Clarke
7.74 Chay Fihaki
7.56 Leroy Carter
6.68 Kini Naholo
6.54 Sevu Reece
6.05 Jonah Lowe
5.63 Emoni Narawa
4.56 Caleb TangitauClarke and Tele'a look pretty good defence wise in these metrics.
That could all be a product of playing for the highlanders though.
Are you trying to say the Highlanders are a team full of poor defenders, which is why they came last, and besides that we shouldn't pick too many players with a losing mindset?
Sounds far too thought out for me. Especially when there's low hanging fruit like teams that somehow manage to lose twice in the finals. I imagine Tangitau was playing in a bit of a faulty defensive pattern in that first part of the season, but can't really be sure.
I'll just go back to framing the Jordan turnovers post.
