All Blacks v Argentina II
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Shots fired.
Gregor Paul: How ABs became the dumbest and dirtiest team in rugby
OPINION: Sunday's loss in Buenos Aires seriously exposed the All Blacks' flaws.
From the article:
“ Once renowned for being able to tread a supremely astute fine line in the grey areas of rugby’s complex lawbook, the All Blacks now simply seem to play with a reptilian brain, unable to resist their basic impulses. They seem incapable of controlling the urge to stray offside, impede kick-chasers and – most maddeningly of all – lunge for ill-advised intercept attempts.
Why this basic lack of control and discipline pervades the All Blacks is perhaps because this instinctive cynicism to shut down opportunities illegally and play on the cusp of the law is endemic in New Zealand rugby at all levels.
The All Blacks are merely displaying learned behaviour, serving as proof incarnate that the players are merely products of their wider environments, because from junior club, to First XV, through to Super Rugby, they are coached to push the boundaries and get away with what they can.”
Stupidity is coached…
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@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Keep Christie as the reserve 9. Put Will Jordan on the wing, Reiko back to Centre and Jordie Barrett to the bench.
Apart from that I'd drop the rest of the backline against the Boks.
- Kyle Preston (obviously Cam Roigard if he's fit)
- DMac
- Leroy Carter
- Tavatavanawai
- Reiko Ioane
- Will Jordan
- Ruben Love
6-2 split with Finley Christie and Jordie Barrett as the 2.
I dont disagree, but Razor has now done AGAIN what he did last year and what Foster did before him.
Picked the old reliables early doors, didnt get results he wanted, now the big boys are coming and he is trapped in amber again and there is too much on the line in his eyes to experiment.
He isnt going to give debuts to Kyle, Leroy and start Timoci against the Boks.
Unless he is in fact the innovative brave coach that I thought we were hiring initially.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Shots fired.
Gregor Paul: How ABs became the dumbest and dirtiest team in rugby
OPINION: Sunday's loss in Buenos Aires seriously exposed the All Blacks' flaws.
I kinda half agree with the following line:
The All Blacks are merely displaying learned behaviour, serving as proof incarnate that the players are merely products of their wider environments, because from junior club, to First XV, through to Super Rugby, they are coached to push the boundaries and get away with what they can.
But I also think that there is a general attitude that, "the rules suck, so let's play by a different set of rules".
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Shots fired.
Gregor Paul: How ABs became the dumbest and dirtiest team in rugby
OPINION: Sunday's loss in Buenos Aires seriously exposed the All Blacks' flaws.
From the article:
“ Once renowned for being able to tread a supremely astute fine line in the grey areas of rugby’s complex lawbook, the All Blacks now simply seem to play with a reptilian brain, unable to resist their basic impulses. They seem incapable of controlling the urge to stray offside, impede kick-chasers and – most maddeningly of all – lunge for ill-advised intercept attempts.
Why this basic lack of control and discipline pervades the All Blacks is perhaps because this instinctive cynicism to shut down opportunities illegally and play on the cusp of the law is endemic in New Zealand rugby at all levels.
The All Blacks are merely displaying learned behaviour, serving as proof incarnate that the players are merely products of their wider environments, because from junior club, to First XV, through to Super Rugby, they are coached to push the boundaries and get away with what they can.”
Stupidity is coached…
The stupidity has been there long before Razor. Anyone thinking the senior ABs haven’t been morons for the past 8-9 years is living in a dream land. Razor inherited a bunch of idiots who haven’t improved for the past 4-5 years. He hasn’t then great but no matter how much polish a turd, it won’t turn to gold, it’s still going to be a turd
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@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Goldie on the breakdown "are you guys surprised Beaudy got subbed so early"?
Im surprised he is still a fucking professional rugby player Jeff.
Jesus H Christ.
My favourite Goldie question was "in that performance, did you see anything to be concerned about?"
WTF!
Our backs made 72 metres and one line break, we gave away three Yellow Cards, we kicked aimlessly and were pitiful in the air and in defence. Supposedly experienced leaders were rabbits in the headlights against the 7th ranked side in the world. Our game plan was shit.
Those are some big things to be concerned about.
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@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Goldie on the breakdown "are you guys surprised Beaudy got subbed so early"?
Im surprised he is still a fucking professional rugby player Jeff.
Jesus H Christ.
My favourite Goldie question was "in that performance, did you see anything to be concerned about?"
WTF!
Our backs made 72 metres and one line break, we gave away three Yellow Cards, we kicked aimlessly and were pitiful in the air and in defence. Supposedly experience leaders were rabbits in the headlights against the 7th ranked side in the world. Our game plan was shit.
Those are some big things to be concerned about.
Agreed.
Plus they all pull their punches when it comes to honestly critiquing the performances of the players.
They need a journalist on that show or at least someone who is detached from the All Blacks and is not afraid to call it as it is.
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@nonpartizan I think the last really great NZ TV Rugby pundit was John Drake. A massive loss when he went so young.
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As frustrating as it is, the Sky employees aren't going to rubbish the product they're selling. They've probably been told directly not to make any criticisms. The other media, however, you'd expect to be asking more questions but they don't want to get offside with the team.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Nothing worse than the people in charge apparently having no idea what the problem is. Perhaps we should be quietly sounding out Schmidt, Joseph and Brown for the post-apocolyptic period after 2027?
Well, you can forget Schmidt while the current NZR Board are in place - too much baggage.
There's much that's heading in the right direction with this team but Robertson really has to get a grip and get some input from a Schmidt-like character - particularly in the backline.
I'd be ringing up Vern Cotter or Dave Rennie and asking them to run their eyes over the set-up and give some constrictive input. If not, change will likely be forced on him.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
As frustrating as it is, the Sky employees aren't going to rubbish the product they're selling. They've probably been told directly not to make any criticisms. The other media, however, you'd expect to be asking more questions but they don't want to get offside with the team.
Bollocks to that.
Watch the NFL. Commentators compete with each other for excellence - if you're shit or have bad takes, you get mauled. They call good players playing poorly. They call great play from unexpected sources, and don't go down the sycophancy road. And then,s urprise surprise, it's worth watching.
The love-in with NZR and Sky and the media is just shithouse. Too little competition.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
2 or 3 years ago, the argument was NZ had all the cattle it needed and a change in coach would solve all the problems. Well, guess what - it didn't.
Hold on a second.
After the home series loss to Ireland in 2022 the ABs made huge changes their coaching staff.
In 2024 the ABs came within a whisker of winning the world cup and completed blunted Ireland along the way.
I would say the calls to change the coaching staff were correct.
Look at how far the Wallabies have come in 2 years under Schmidt.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Jordie Barrett is v good under the highbal
Really?
I'm never confident with JB going up for the highball.
I just accept he's knocking it forward.
I hold the complete opposite opinion, I think he's one of the worlds best under the high ball and he's shown that time and again at 15. I have memories of him charging around the field like a mad man trying to take every single high ball as our wings (one was Bridge) couldn't catch a fucking cold.
A back three of Clarke-Jordie-Jordan would be much better suited to the modern test footy.
Video evidence would be appreciated
I think it was this game - nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/rugby-championship-jordie-barrett-reveals-the-area-the-all-blacks-need-to-work-on-in-springboks-rematch/MC6S53XKPYWM2FTPDLAFLBADDM/
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
As frustrating as it is, the Sky employees aren't going to rubbish the product they're selling. They've probably been told directly not to make any criticisms. The other media, however, you'd expect to be asking more questions but they don't want to get offside with the team.
Bollocks to that.
Watch the NFL. Commentators compete with each other for excellence - if you're shit or have bad takes, you get mauled. They call good players playing poorly. They call great play from unexpected sources, and don't go down the sycophancy road. And then,s urprise surprise, it's worth watching.
The love-in with NZR and Sky and the media is just shithouse. Too little competition.
You're absolutely right. But it is because of that competition. I don't like it at all but in NZ, Sky commentators are part of the rugby “family” and are incentivised to protect the product. In the US, NFL commentators are part of a massive sports-media machine where outspoken criticism is both safe and profitable. You need the competition for that to change.
The irony with the difference in approach to criticism is, in NZ, fans get frustrated at this sugar-coating because they can see what's happening - poor play etc - themselves. Meanwhile, in the US, the more brutally honest the commentary, the more fans feel they’re being respected as knowledgeable viewers and don't stop watching because of it.
