All Blacks v Argentina II
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Shots fired.
I kinda half agree with the following line:
The All Blacks are merely displaying learned behaviour, serving as proof incarnate that the players are merely products of their wider environments, because from junior club, to First XV, through to Super Rugby, they are coached to push the boundaries and get away with what they can.
But I also think that there is a general attitude that, "the rules suck, so let's play by a different set of rules".
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Shots fired.
I kinda half agree with the following line:
The All Blacks are merely displaying learned behaviour, serving as proof incarnate that the players are merely products of their wider environments, because from junior club, to First XV, through to Super Rugby, they are coached to push the boundaries and get away with what they can.
But I also think that there is a general attitude that, "the rules suck, so let's play by a different set of rules".
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Shots fired.
From the article:
“ Once renowned for being able to tread a supremely astute fine line in the grey areas of rugby’s complex lawbook, the All Blacks now simply seem to play with a reptilian brain, unable to resist their basic impulses. They seem incapable of controlling the urge to stray offside, impede kick-chasers and – most maddeningly of all – lunge for ill-advised intercept attempts.
Why this basic lack of control and discipline pervades the All Blacks is perhaps because this instinctive cynicism to shut down opportunities illegally and play on the cusp of the law is endemic in New Zealand rugby at all levels.
The All Blacks are merely displaying learned behaviour, serving as proof incarnate that the players are merely products of their wider environments, because from junior club, to First XV, through to Super Rugby, they are coached to push the boundaries and get away with what they can.”
Stupidity is coached…
@stodders said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Shots fired.
From the article:
“ Once renowned for being able to tread a supremely astute fine line in the grey areas of rugby’s complex lawbook, the All Blacks now simply seem to play with a reptilian brain, unable to resist their basic impulses. They seem incapable of controlling the urge to stray offside, impede kick-chasers and – most maddeningly of all – lunge for ill-advised intercept attempts.
Why this basic lack of control and discipline pervades the All Blacks is perhaps because this instinctive cynicism to shut down opportunities illegally and play on the cusp of the law is endemic in New Zealand rugby at all levels.
The All Blacks are merely displaying learned behaviour, serving as proof incarnate that the players are merely products of their wider environments, because from junior club, to First XV, through to Super Rugby, they are coached to push the boundaries and get away with what they can.”
Stupidity is coached…
The stupidity has been there long before Razor. Anyone thinking the senior ABs haven’t been morons for the past 8-9 years is living in a dream land. Razor inherited a bunch of idiots who haven’t improved for the past 4-5 years. He hasn’t then great but no matter how much polish a turd, it won’t turn to gold, it’s still going to be a turd
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Goldie on the breakdown "are you guys surprised Beaudy got subbed so early"?
Im surprised he is still a fucking professional rugby player Jeff.
Jesus H Christ.
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Goldie on the breakdown "are you guys surprised Beaudy got subbed so early"?
Im surprised he is still a fucking professional rugby player Jeff.
Jesus H Christ.
My favourite Goldie question was "in that performance, did you see anything to be concerned about?"
WTF!
Our backs made 72 metres and one line break, we gave away three Yellow Cards, we kicked aimlessly and were pitiful in the air and in defence. Supposedly experienced leaders were rabbits in the headlights against the 7th ranked side in the world. Our game plan was shit.
Those are some big things to be concerned about.
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@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Goldie on the breakdown "are you guys surprised Beaudy got subbed so early"?
Im surprised he is still a fucking professional rugby player Jeff.
Jesus H Christ.
My favourite Goldie question was "in that performance, did you see anything to be concerned about?"
WTF!
Our backs made 72 metres and one line break, we gave away three Yellow Cards, we kicked aimlessly and were pitiful in the air and in defence. Supposedly experienced leaders were rabbits in the headlights against the 7th ranked side in the world. Our game plan was shit.
Those are some big things to be concerned about.
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Goldie on the breakdown "are you guys surprised Beaudy got subbed so early"?
Im surprised he is still a fucking professional rugby player Jeff.
Jesus H Christ.
My favourite Goldie question was "in that performance, did you see anything to be concerned about?"
WTF!
Our backs made 72 metres and one line break, we gave away three Yellow Cards, we kicked aimlessly and were pitiful in the air and in defence. Supposedly experience leaders were rabbits in the headlights against the 7th ranked side in the world. Our game plan was shit.
Those are some big things to be concerned about.
Agreed.
Plus they all pull their punches when it comes to honestly critiquing the performances of the players.
They need a journalist on that show or at least someone who is detached from the All Blacks and is not afraid to call it as it is.
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@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Goldie on the breakdown "are you guys surprised Beaudy got subbed so early"?
Im surprised he is still a fucking professional rugby player Jeff.
Jesus H Christ.
My favourite Goldie question was "in that performance, did you see anything to be concerned about?"
WTF!
Our backs made 72 metres and one line break, we gave away three Yellow Cards, we kicked aimlessly and were pitiful in the air and in defence. Supposedly experience leaders were rabbits in the headlights against the 7th ranked side in the world. Our game plan was shit.
Those are some big things to be concerned about.
Agreed.
Plus they all pull their punches when it comes to honestly critiquing the performances of the players.
They need a journalist on that show or at least someone who is detached from the All Blacks and is not afraid to call it as it is.
@nonpartizan I think the last really great NZ TV Rugby pundit was John Drake. A massive loss when he went so young.
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As frustrating as it is, the Sky employees aren't going to rubbish the product they're selling. They've probably been told directly not to make any criticisms. The other media, however, you'd expect to be asking more questions but they don't want to get offside with the team.
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Nothing worse than the people in charge apparently having no idea what the problem is. Perhaps we should be quietly sounding out Schmidt, Joseph and Brown for the post-apocolyptic period after 2027?
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Nothing worse than the people in charge apparently having no idea what the problem is. Perhaps we should be quietly sounding out Schmidt, Joseph and Brown for the post-apocolyptic period after 2027?
Well, you can forget Schmidt while the current NZR Board are in place - too much baggage.
There's much that's heading in the right direction with this team but Robertson really has to get a grip and get some input from a Schmidt-like character - particularly in the backline.
I'd be ringing up Vern Cotter or Dave Rennie and asking them to run their eyes over the set-up and give some constrictive input. If not, change will likely be forced on him.
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As frustrating as it is, the Sky employees aren't going to rubbish the product they're selling. They've probably been told directly not to make any criticisms. The other media, however, you'd expect to be asking more questions but they don't want to get offside with the team.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
As frustrating as it is, the Sky employees aren't going to rubbish the product they're selling. They've probably been told directly not to make any criticisms. The other media, however, you'd expect to be asking more questions but they don't want to get offside with the team.
Bollocks to that.
Watch the NFL. Commentators compete with each other for excellence - if you're shit or have bad takes, you get mauled. They call good players playing poorly. They call great play from unexpected sources, and don't go down the sycophancy road. And then,s urprise surprise, it's worth watching.
The love-in with NZR and Sky and the media is just shithouse. Too little competition.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Something rotten in the selecting, coaching, and preparation.
Farming out selection to each assistant is a pussy head coach move. Man up Razor, this is your team.
This idea of selection by each assistant only works if the team has a clear approach to play that is agreed upon and acted upon from top to bottom. This team does not have that.
Change is needed - if it isn' players, sack some coaches. If Hansen is the main man in the backs, turn them all over to him and hold him responsible; equally the same goes for Holland. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, as they say, and it tastes like shit.
You've got guys playing significantly worse in the Black jersey than they were a month ago in Super (or European) rugby. That's on coaching and preparation and I doubt that these guys can figure out why because they dumped the previous admin on mass, so there is little institutional knowledge to provide guidance on where things are going wrong.
Assuming that a coach won't get sacked, then the coaches have to show that they have the balls to dump senior players right now. If they believe they have the right game plan and can prepare players appropriately, dump these guys for poor performances and reward those who come in and play accurately.
2 or 3 years ago, the argument was NZ had all the cattle it needed and a change in coach would solve all the problems. Well, guess what - it didn't.
The reason the forwards are doing OK is the coaching team took a long term view and built a unit with some depth. They actually developed players, though 6/7/8 combo has more work to do, but you can see the progress
Apart from sticking with Proctor, there's been nothing like that level of backline development in the same period. If anything we've gone backwards. Serious headless, shovel-it-down-the-line stuff with a god-awful kicking game.
Robertson needs someone with fresh eyes to come in and advise or take charge
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
2 or 3 years ago, the argument was NZ had all the cattle it needed and a change in coach would solve all the problems. Well, guess what - it didn't.
Hold on a second.
After the home series loss to Ireland in 2022 the ABs made huge changes their coaching staff.
In 2024 the ABs came within a whisker of winning the world cup and completed blunted Ireland along the way.
I would say the calls to change the coaching staff were correct.
Look at how far the Wallabies have come in 2 years under Schmidt.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Jordie Barrett is v good under the highbal
Really?
I'm never confident with JB going up for the highball.
I just accept he's knocking it forward.
I hold the complete opposite opinion, I think he's one of the worlds best under the high ball and he's shown that time and again at 15. I have memories of him charging around the field like a mad man trying to take every single high ball as our wings (one was Bridge) couldn't catch a fucking cold.
A back three of Clarke-Jordie-Jordan would be much better suited to the modern test footy.
Video evidence would be appreciated
@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Jordie Barrett is v good under the highbal
Really?
I'm never confident with JB going up for the highball.
I just accept he's knocking it forward.
I hold the complete opposite opinion, I think he's one of the worlds best under the high ball and he's shown that time and again at 15. I have memories of him charging around the field like a mad man trying to take every single high ball as our wings (one was Bridge) couldn't catch a fucking cold.
A back three of Clarke-Jordie-Jordan would be much better suited to the modern test footy.
Video evidence would be appreciated
I think it was this game - nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/rugby-championship-jordie-barrett-reveals-the-area-the-all-blacks-need-to-work-on-in-springboks-rematch/MC6S53XKPYWM2FTPDLAFLBADDM/
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
As frustrating as it is, the Sky employees aren't going to rubbish the product they're selling. They've probably been told directly not to make any criticisms. The other media, however, you'd expect to be asking more questions but they don't want to get offside with the team.
Bollocks to that.
Watch the NFL. Commentators compete with each other for excellence - if you're shit or have bad takes, you get mauled. They call good players playing poorly. They call great play from unexpected sources, and don't go down the sycophancy road. And then,s urprise surprise, it's worth watching.
The love-in with NZR and Sky and the media is just shithouse. Too little competition.
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
As frustrating as it is, the Sky employees aren't going to rubbish the product they're selling. They've probably been told directly not to make any criticisms. The other media, however, you'd expect to be asking more questions but they don't want to get offside with the team.
Bollocks to that.
Watch the NFL. Commentators compete with each other for excellence - if you're shit or have bad takes, you get mauled. They call good players playing poorly. They call great play from unexpected sources, and don't go down the sycophancy road. And then,s urprise surprise, it's worth watching.
The love-in with NZR and Sky and the media is just shithouse. Too little competition.
You're absolutely right. But it is because of that competition. I don't like it at all but in NZ, Sky commentators are part of the rugby “family” and are incentivised to protect the product. In the US, NFL commentators are part of a massive sports-media machine where outspoken criticism is both safe and profitable. You need the competition for that to change.
The irony with the difference in approach to criticism is, in NZ, fans get frustrated at this sugar-coating because they can see what's happening - poor play etc - themselves. Meanwhile, in the US, the more brutally honest the commentary, the more fans feel they’re being respected as knowledgeable viewers and don't stop watching because of it.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Shots fired.
Another good part of this article
Jordan might sit alongside Australia’s Tom Wright as the world’s best attacking fullback, but he’s barely caught a high ball in the last two tests. Both Rieko Ioane and Reece – in different ways – were shown up by their counterparts as being totally lacking in a skillset that is now non-negotiable for international wings. And so too is there a pressing need to instil a better attacking shape and fast-track the players’ understanding of what they are expected to do when they have possession. -
@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Jordan might not be a godsend at fullback. Who woulda thought?
Siege gun boot with pace to burn - is it not Zarn Sullivan’s time?
I’d like to see Love at 10.
@stodders said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Jordan might not be a godsend at fullback. Who woulda thought?
Siege gun boot with pace to burn - is it not Zarn Sullivan’s time?
I’d like to see Love at 10.
Zarn is slow as fuck
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@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Goldie on the breakdown "are you guys surprised Beaudy got subbed so early"?
Im surprised he is still a fucking professional rugby player Jeff.
Jesus H Christ.
My favourite Goldie question was "in that performance, did you see anything to be concerned about?"
WTF!
Our backs made 72 metres and one line break, we gave away three Yellow Cards, we kicked aimlessly and were pitiful in the air and in defence. Supposedly experienced leaders were rabbits in the headlights against the 7th ranked side in the world. Our game plan was shit.
Those are some big things to be concerned about.
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Our backs made 72 metres and one line break
Where did you get these stats from? The Opta ones say the only line break the All Blacks made came from Parker.. Who isn't a back.
