All Blacks v Argentina II
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@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I can only think he is the person setting this way of playing.
This is what you said that's probably not exactly what you intended. It reads like you are sheeting home responsibility to Smith.
No doubt Wayne may be pushing for a fast brand of rugby, but he should not be setting the direction of the team.
That must come from Razor and his assistants.@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I can only think he is the person setting this way of playing.
This is what you said that's probably not exactly what you intended. It reads like you are sheeting home responsibility to Smith.
No doubt Wayne may be pushing for a fast brand of rugby, but he should not be setting the direction of the team.
That must come from Razor and his assistants.I don't disagree as I said it is on Razor and his coaching staff, but there has been a change in tactic since Crusaders days is what I am pointing out.
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Crotty in to coach the backline.
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@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Can anyone remember how Razor's Crusaders teams played? My recollection was they did the basics well. But I could be wrong
Strong set piece, good kicking game and put a lot of phases together to exert pressure on the oppositions defence.
That's what I thought. That's what I based my hope for Razor on. So what is this shit we're being served up then???
The one different piece of the coaching puzzle is Wayne Smith this really is a fingerprint of Smiths helter skelter run at all costs game, as it was mentioned above the Black Ferns used this pattern as soon as Smith came on board.
I can only think he is the person setting this way of playing.
As it makes no sense Razor,Hansen especially had a completely different way of playing for 7 years at the Crusaders.Razor and Hansen are culpable. You can't make Smith a scape goat. He's only an occasional mentor.
Who said I am making him a scapegoat but why change a game plan that worked for 7 years and won 7 titles to a game plan similar to what the Black ferns and other teams have used under Smith, seems to point to something changing.
He is a mentor they talk to every week more than once I know that for a fact.
just adding to that yes Razors head is on the line he needs to make his own decisions if things are not working.
But I answered a question on why tactics have changed since the Crusaders.I'd love to know the answer to this question. The way we are playing is very un-Canty and Saders-like. And that way is much more suited to test footy. Razor has to get back to his roots
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Can anyone remember how Razor's Crusaders teams played? My recollection was they did the basics well. But I could be wrong
Strong set piece, good kicking game and put a lot of phases together to exert pressure on the oppositions defence.
That's what I thought. That's what I based my hope for Razor on. So what is this shit we're being served up then???
The one different piece of the coaching puzzle is Wayne Smith this really is a fingerprint of Smiths helter skelter run at all costs game, as it was mentioned above the Black Ferns used this pattern as soon as Smith came on board.
I can only think he is the person setting this way of playing.
As it makes no sense Razor,Hansen especially had a completely different way of playing for 7 years at the Crusaders.Razor and Hansen are culpable. You can't make Smith a scape goat. He's only an occasional mentor.
Who said I am making him a scapegoat but why change a game plan that worked for 7 years and won 7 titles to a game plan similar to what the Black ferns and other teams have used under Smith, seems to point to something changing.
He is a mentor they talk to every week more than once I know that for a fact.
just adding to that yes Razors head is on the line he needs to make his own decisions if things are not working.
But I answered a question on why tactics have changed since the Crusaders.I'd love to know the answer to this question. The way we are playing is very un-Canty and Saders-like. And that way is much more suited to test footy. Razor has to get back to his roots
That is why I am saying there has been a massive shift away from the success of 7 years playing a test match type game.
Something has changed their thinking I am pointing out One reason maybe why.
And I will state it again that is on Razor wether he wants to do it or not. -
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Can anyone remember how Razor's Crusaders teams played? My recollection was they did the basics well. But I could be wrong
Strong set piece, good kicking game and put a lot of phases together to exert pressure on the oppositions defence.
That's what I thought. That's what I based my hope for Razor on. So what is this shit we're being served up then???
The one different piece of the coaching puzzle is Wayne Smith this really is a fingerprint of Smiths helter skelter run at all costs game, as it was mentioned above the Black Ferns used this pattern as soon as Smith came on board.
I can only think he is the person setting this way of playing.
As it makes no sense Razor,Hansen especially had a completely different way of playing for 7 years at the Crusaders.Razor and Hansen are culpable. You can't make Smith a scape goat. He's only an occasional mentor.
Who said I am making him a scapegoat but why change a game plan that worked for 7 years and won 7 titles to a game plan similar to what the Black ferns and other teams have used under Smith, seems to point to something changing.
He is a mentor they talk to every week more than once I know that for a fact.
just adding to that yes Razors head is on the line he needs to make his own decisions if things are not working.
But I answered a question on why tactics have changed since the Crusaders.I'd love to know the answer to this question. The way we are playing is very un-Canty and Saders-like. And that way is much more suited to test footy. Razor has to get back to his roots
That is why I am saying there has been a massive shift away from the success of 7 years playing a test match type game.
Something has changed their thinking I am pointing out One reason maybe why.
And I will state it again that is on Razor wether he wants to do it or not.@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Can anyone remember how Razor's Crusaders teams played? My recollection was they did the basics well. But I could be wrong
Strong set piece, good kicking game and put a lot of phases together to exert pressure on the oppositions defence.
That's what I thought. That's what I based my hope for Razor on. So what is this shit we're being served up then???
The one different piece of the coaching puzzle is Wayne Smith this really is a fingerprint of Smiths helter skelter run at all costs game, as it was mentioned above the Black Ferns used this pattern as soon as Smith came on board.
I can only think he is the person setting this way of playing.
As it makes no sense Razor,Hansen especially had a completely different way of playing for 7 years at the Crusaders.Razor and Hansen are culpable. You can't make Smith a scape goat. He's only an occasional mentor.
Who said I am making him a scapegoat but why change a game plan that worked for 7 years and won 7 titles to a game plan similar to what the Black ferns and other teams have used under Smith, seems to point to something changing.
He is a mentor they talk to every week more than once I know that for a fact.
just adding to that yes Razors head is on the line he needs to make his own decisions if things are not working.
But I answered a question on why tactics have changed since the Crusaders.I'd love to know the answer to this question. The way we are playing is very un-Canty and Saders-like. And that way is much more suited to test footy. Razor has to get back to his roots
That is why I am saying there has been a massive shift away from the success of 7 years playing a test match type game.
Something has changed their thinking I am pointing out One reason maybe why.
And I will state it again that is on Razor wether he wants to do it or not.I'm with you there. Even if he was taking advice from Smith, Razor is the boss so the buck stops with him
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Whilst Wayne Smith is an excellent coach - he is effectively the guy that set up the entire Crusaders system in the first place.
Obviously he's gone on to do a million other things in coaching but there is also the concern that it's still another voice coming from what Razor already knows - the Crusaders
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Crotty in to coach the backline.
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Whilst Wayne Smith is an excellent coach - he is effectively the guy that set up the entire Crusaders system in the first place.
Obviously he's gone on to do a million other things in coaching but there is also the concern that it's still another voice coming from what Razor already knows - the Crusaders
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Whilst Wayne Smith is an excellent coach - he is effectively the guy that set up the entire Crusaders system in the first place.
Obviously he's gone on to do a million other things in coaching but there is also the concern that it's still another voice coming from what Razor already knows - the Crusaders
But we aren't playing like the Saders. That is the weird thing
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That was an absolute shit-fest of a game and it's quite remarkable a loyal journeyman like Finlay Christie stood out as a key player, but the question is this a one-off or are we taking one step forward, two steps sideways an one step back?
The discipline was bloody awful. Where was the leadership? Scooter is a great lock but I'm unconvinced by his leadership. Pretty hard for Robertson to sack his captaincy and he not the only leader on the field, but there needs to be some discussions.
I really like Robertson sticking with new players for more than 1 or two Tests but the backline just isn't functioning. Either sort it out or get someone in who can - they've had plenty of time.
Don't think there's any need to panic right now, things were/are def. going in the right direction but with too many bumps on the way. That said, any more games like that and the chopping block will need to be taken out of storage an NZR HQ.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
The discipline was bloody awful. Where was the leadership? Scooter is a great lock but I'm unconvinced by his leadership. Pretty hard for Robertson to sack his captaincy and he not the only leader on the field, but there needs to be some discussions.
Agree, was surprised he ever got the captain nod, had a terrible record with his own ability to avoid getting carded.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Whilst Wayne Smith is an excellent coach - he is effectively the guy that set up the entire Crusaders system in the first place.
Obviously he's gone on to do a million other things in coaching but there is also the concern that it's still another voice coming from what Razor already knows - the Crusaders
But we aren't playing like the Saders. That is the weird thing
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Whilst Wayne Smith is an excellent coach - he is effectively the guy that set up the entire Crusaders system in the first place.
Obviously he's gone on to do a million other things in coaching but there is also the concern that it's still another voice coming from what Razor already knows - the Crusaders
But we aren't playing like the Saders. That is the weird thing
And the blue print to win test rugby was how the Crusaders suffocated the Chiefs in the SR Final with constant pressure.
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A few people have been impressed by Parkers debut I for one was disappointed and I am a fan of his.He tackled well but did miss a couple, but clearing rucks hitting over the advantage line and just hitting bodies hard I felt he was a bit passive.
I hope it is just First test nerves.
Siti came on and hit the line hard in my mind he needs to start at 8 against the Boks. -
Dmac needs to start.
The only reason he was dropped last year was for not beating Australia by more in Australia. It was a joke decision and has cost this team loads of development as we've wasted a year on washed up Beauden.
Ironically it turns out that Australia is a major threat now.
Beauden has held back our attack for near 7 years with his complete lack of a passing game. And even worse, his brother with a similar limitation is one out at 12.
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That Reece YC and resulting 3 points was the biggest coach killer eh, they absolutely have to drop him for that. Going for a dumbass one handed intercept just when we have gained ascendancy in the forwards and got within 6... I hope the front row took him out back and gave him a good beating for that one.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Whilst Wayne Smith is an excellent coach - he is effectively the guy that set up the entire Crusaders system in the first place.
Obviously he's gone on to do a million other things in coaching but there is also the concern that it's still another voice coming from what Razor already knows - the Crusaders
But we aren't playing like the Saders. That is the weird thing
And the blue print to win test rugby was how the Crusaders suffocated the Chiefs in the SR Final with constant pressure.
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Whilst Wayne Smith is an excellent coach - he is effectively the guy that set up the entire Crusaders system in the first place.
Obviously he's gone on to do a million other things in coaching but there is also the concern that it's still another voice coming from what Razor already knows - the Crusaders
But we aren't playing like the Saders. That is the weird thing
And the blue print to win test rugby was how the Crusaders suffocated the Chiefs in the SR Final with constant pressure.
Here's an idea - start picking 10s who display test like qualities in the playoffs to win Super Rugby finals.
Both Plummer and Reihana displayed kicking games that the ABs are crying out for and neither have got a serious look in.
It's maddening.
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@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Whilst Wayne Smith is an excellent coach - he is effectively the guy that set up the entire Crusaders system in the first place.
Obviously he's gone on to do a million other things in coaching but there is also the concern that it's still another voice coming from what Razor already knows - the Crusaders
But we aren't playing like the Saders. That is the weird thing
And the blue print to win test rugby was how the Crusaders suffocated the Chiefs in the SR Final with constant pressure.
Here's an idea - start picking 10s who display test like qualities in the playoffs to win Super Rugby finals.
Both Plummer and Reihana displayed kicking games that the ABs are crying out for and neither have got a serious look in.
It's maddening.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Whilst Wayne Smith is an excellent coach - he is effectively the guy that set up the entire Crusaders system in the first place.
Obviously he's gone on to do a million other things in coaching but there is also the concern that it's still another voice coming from what Razor already knows - the Crusaders
But we aren't playing like the Saders. That is the weird thing
And the blue print to win test rugby was how the Crusaders suffocated the Chiefs in the SR Final with constant pressure.
Here's an idea - start picking 10s who display test like qualities in the playoffs to win Super Rugby finals.
Both Plummer and Reihana displayed kicking games that the ABs are crying out for and neither have got a serious look in.
It's maddening.
good idea in my mind.
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@Bear said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Crotty in to coach the backline.
And Ben Smith
he could definitely coach catching the ball
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Fairly simple. Fire the backs coach. Hire the next poor man's Tony Brown. Dock the pay of the loosies coach. Pat the forwards coach on the head. Hire as skills coach whoever is teaching Newell ball skills (it is a phenomenal evolution!)
Oh and sack Gregor Paul. He's always as sunny and optimistic as Scottish weather. -
Fairly simple. Fire the backs coach. Hire the next poor man's Tony Brown. Dock the pay of the loosies coach. Pat the forwards coach on the head. Hire as skills coach whoever is teaching Newell ball skills (it is a phenomenal evolution!)
Oh and sack Gregor Paul. He's always as sunny and optimistic as Scottish weather.@nostrildamus in all seriousness Kendrick Lynn the Argentina assistant coach should be a future all blacks attack coach. Already has helped coached the Pumas to the 2 victories against Razors men in the last year. also I do find it interesting Billy Proctor, Ruben Love etc. had their breakout seasons at the Canes in 2024 once Jason Holland had left
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A few people have been impressed by Parkers debut I for one was disappointed and I am a fan of his.He tackled well but did miss a couple, but clearing rucks hitting over the advantage line and just hitting bodies hard I felt he was a bit passive.
I hope it is just First test nerves.
Siti came on and hit the line hard in my mind he needs to start at 8 against the Boks.@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
A few people have been impressed by Parkers debut I for one was disappointed and I am a fan of his.He tackled well but did miss a couple, but clearing rucks hitting over the advantage line and just hitting bodies hard I felt he was a bit passive.
I hope it is just First test nerves.
Siti came on and hit the line hard in my mind he needs to start at 8 against the Boks.Thought the same.
Was hoping he would take the bull by the horn and put the hurt on... just seemed happy to follow.
Wasn't helped by the whole passive approach from his teammates but wasn't a memorable debut just so so. -
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Can anyone remember how Razor's Crusaders teams played? My recollection was they did the basics well. But I could be wrong
Strong set piece, good kicking game and put a lot of phases together to exert pressure on the oppositions defence.
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TJ deservedly gets shit on here when he is on commentary on Blues games, but we miss his analysis.
Very good review of the way the coaches responded in 2009 when they needed the bomb squad.
Edit: They also have a good talk about the backline problems, and talk about the potential role of Wayne Smith to help them solve these issues...
