All Blacks v Argentina II
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Can anyone remember how Razor's Crusaders teams played? My recollection was they did the basics well. But I could be wrong
Strong set piece, good kicking game and put a lot of phases together to exert pressure on the oppositions defence.
That's what I thought. That's what I based my hope for Razor on. So what is this shit we're being served up then???
The one different piece of the coaching puzzle is Wayne Smith this really is a fingerprint of Smiths helter skelter run at all costs game, as it was mentioned above the Black Ferns used this pattern as soon as Smith came on board.
I can only think he is the person setting this way of playing.
As it makes no sense Razor,Hansen especially had a completely different way of playing for 7 years at the Crusaders.@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I can only think he is the person setting this way of playing.
This is what you said that's probably not exactly what you intended. It reads like you are sheeting home responsibility to Smith.
No doubt Wayne may be pushing for a fast brand of rugby, but he should not be setting the direction of the team.
That must come from Razor and his assistants. -
We're making assumptions but if Smith is having that much influence over Razor, then it really points to Razor's lack of international experience. If he had built up some more experience before taking on the AB coaching role, he would probably trust his own judgement more rather than relying so much on Smith who does have that experience.
I remember saying that I would prefer Schmidt over Razor when they were appointing him, and got quite a bit of push back from people saying Schmidt's international record wasn't always that flash. But that's kind of exactly why he was well suited for the job - he had that international experience and grown from it. Razor is out of his depth at the moment and starting to drown.
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Nothing worse than the people in charge apparently having no idea what the problem is. Perhaps we should be quietly sounding out Schmidt, Joseph and Brown for the post-apocolyptic period after 2027?
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Nothing worse than the people in charge apparently having no idea what the problem is. Perhaps we should be quietly sounding out Schmidt, Joseph and Brown for the post-apocolyptic period after 2027?
That's a great-sounding team, but don't know if all three would be keen.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Can anyone remember how Razor's Crusaders teams played? My recollection was they did the basics well. But I could be wrong
Strong set piece, good kicking game and put a lot of phases together to exert pressure on the oppositions defence.
That's what I thought. That's what I based my hope for Razor on. So what is this shit we're being served up then???
The one different piece of the coaching puzzle is Wayne Smith this really is a fingerprint of Smiths helter skelter run at all costs game, as it was mentioned above the Black Ferns used this pattern as soon as Smith came on board.
I can only think he is the person setting this way of playing.
As it makes no sense Razor,Hansen especially had a completely different way of playing for 7 years at the Crusaders.@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Can anyone remember how Razor's Crusaders teams played? My recollection was they did the basics well. But I could be wrong
Strong set piece, good kicking game and put a lot of phases together to exert pressure on the oppositions defence.
That's what I thought. That's what I based my hope for Razor on. So what is this shit we're being served up then???
The one different piece of the coaching puzzle is Wayne Smith this really is a fingerprint of Smiths helter skelter run at all costs game, as it was mentioned above the Black Ferns used this pattern as soon as Smith came on board.
I can only think he is the person setting this way of playing.
As it makes no sense Razor,Hansen especially had a completely different way of playing for 7 years at the Crusaders.I could be wrong but I thought I read that Smith acknowledged they couldn't match the grunt of the English forwards so he focussed the Black Ferns on their key strength-running rugby. It was a strategic decision...
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Stat watch from a mate - from WIkipedia, may or may not be fully accurate.
The last two years of Foster in the rugby championship: 9 games, 4 yellows (rest of league 32).
Current coaching: 8 games 12 yellows, (rest of league 14 cards)@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Stat watch from a mate - from WIkipedia, may or may not be fully accurate.
The last two years of Foster in the rugby championship: 9 games, 4 yellows (rest of league 32).
Current coaching: 8 games 12 yellows, (rest of league 14 cards)Wow.
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@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Can anyone remember how Razor's Crusaders teams played? My recollection was they did the basics well. But I could be wrong
Strong set piece, good kicking game and put a lot of phases together to exert pressure on the oppositions defence.
That's what I thought. That's what I based my hope for Razor on. So what is this shit we're being served up then???
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Can anyone remember how Razor's Crusaders teams played? My recollection was they did the basics well. But I could be wrong
Strong set piece, good kicking game and put a lot of phases together to exert pressure on the oppositions defence.
That's what I thought. That's what I based my hope for Razor on. So what is this shit we're being served up then???
As old mate @ACT-Crusader would say, there are clearly not enough Crusaders in this side
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Can anyone remember how Razor's Crusaders teams played? My recollection was they did the basics well. But I could be wrong
Strong set piece, good kicking game and put a lot of phases together to exert pressure on the oppositions defence.
That's what I thought. That's what I based my hope for Razor on. So what is this shit we're being served up then???
As old mate @ACT-Crusader would say, there are clearly not enough Crusaders in this side
@voodoo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
As old mate @ACT-Crusader would say, there are clearly not enough Crusaders in this side
But clearly too many in the coaching ranks!
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@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Can anyone remember how Razor's Crusaders teams played? My recollection was they did the basics well. But I could be wrong
Strong set piece, good kicking game and put a lot of phases together to exert pressure on the oppositions defence.
That's what I thought. That's what I based my hope for Razor on. So what is this shit we're being served up then???
The one different piece of the coaching puzzle is Wayne Smith this really is a fingerprint of Smiths helter skelter run at all costs game, as it was mentioned above the Black Ferns used this pattern as soon as Smith came on board.
I can only think he is the person setting this way of playing.
As it makes no sense Razor,Hansen especially had a completely different way of playing for 7 years at the Crusaders.Razor and Hansen are culpable. You can't make Smith a scape goat. He's only an occasional mentor.
Who said I am making him a scapegoat but why change a game plan that worked for 7 years and won 7 titles to a game plan similar to what the Black ferns and other teams have used under Smith, seems to point to something changing.
He is a mentor they talk to every week more than once I know that for a fact.
just adding to that yes Razors head is on the line he needs to make his own decisions if things are not working.
But I answered a question on why tactics have changed since the Crusaders.@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Can anyone remember how Razor's Crusaders teams played? My recollection was they did the basics well. But I could be wrong
Strong set piece, good kicking game and put a lot of phases together to exert pressure on the oppositions defence.
That's what I thought. That's what I based my hope for Razor on. So what is this shit we're being served up then???
The one different piece of the coaching puzzle is Wayne Smith this really is a fingerprint of Smiths helter skelter run at all costs game, as it was mentioned above the Black Ferns used this pattern as soon as Smith came on board.
I can only think he is the person setting this way of playing.
As it makes no sense Razor,Hansen especially had a completely different way of playing for 7 years at the Crusaders.Razor and Hansen are culpable. You can't make Smith a scape goat. He's only an occasional mentor.
Who said I am making him a scapegoat but why change a game plan that worked for 7 years and won 7 titles to a game plan similar to what the Black ferns and other teams have used under Smith, seems to point to something changing.
He is a mentor they talk to every week more than once I know that for a fact.
just adding to that yes Razors head is on the line he needs to make his own decisions if things are not working.
But I answered a question on why tactics have changed since the Crusaders.I'd love to know the answer to this question. The way we are playing is very un-Canty and Saders-like. And that way is much more suited to test footy. Razor has to get back to his roots
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@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Can anyone remember how Razor's Crusaders teams played? My recollection was they did the basics well. But I could be wrong
Strong set piece, good kicking game and put a lot of phases together to exert pressure on the oppositions defence.
That's what I thought. That's what I based my hope for Razor on. So what is this shit we're being served up then???
The one different piece of the coaching puzzle is Wayne Smith this really is a fingerprint of Smiths helter skelter run at all costs game, as it was mentioned above the Black Ferns used this pattern as soon as Smith came on board.
I can only think he is the person setting this way of playing.
As it makes no sense Razor,Hansen especially had a completely different way of playing for 7 years at the Crusaders.Razor and Hansen are culpable. You can't make Smith a scape goat. He's only an occasional mentor.
Who said I am making him a scapegoat but why change a game plan that worked for 7 years and won 7 titles to a game plan similar to what the Black ferns and other teams have used under Smith, seems to point to something changing.
He is a mentor they talk to every week more than once I know that for a fact.
just adding to that yes Razors head is on the line he needs to make his own decisions if things are not working.
But I answered a question on why tactics have changed since the Crusaders.I'd love to know the answer to this question. The way we are playing is very un-Canty and Saders-like. And that way is much more suited to test footy. Razor has to get back to his roots
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
The way we are playing is very un-Canty and Saders-like. And that way is much more suited to test footy.
That's what is baffling.
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@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I can only think he is the person setting this way of playing.
This is what you said that's probably not exactly what you intended. It reads like you are sheeting home responsibility to Smith.
No doubt Wayne may be pushing for a fast brand of rugby, but he should not be setting the direction of the team.
That must come from Razor and his assistants.@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I can only think he is the person setting this way of playing.
This is what you said that's probably not exactly what you intended. It reads like you are sheeting home responsibility to Smith.
No doubt Wayne may be pushing for a fast brand of rugby, but he should not be setting the direction of the team.
That must come from Razor and his assistants.I don't disagree as I said it is on Razor and his coaching staff, but there has been a change in tactic since Crusaders days is what I am pointing out.
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Crotty in to coach the backline.
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@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Can anyone remember how Razor's Crusaders teams played? My recollection was they did the basics well. But I could be wrong
Strong set piece, good kicking game and put a lot of phases together to exert pressure on the oppositions defence.
That's what I thought. That's what I based my hope for Razor on. So what is this shit we're being served up then???
The one different piece of the coaching puzzle is Wayne Smith this really is a fingerprint of Smiths helter skelter run at all costs game, as it was mentioned above the Black Ferns used this pattern as soon as Smith came on board.
I can only think he is the person setting this way of playing.
As it makes no sense Razor,Hansen especially had a completely different way of playing for 7 years at the Crusaders.Razor and Hansen are culpable. You can't make Smith a scape goat. He's only an occasional mentor.
Who said I am making him a scapegoat but why change a game plan that worked for 7 years and won 7 titles to a game plan similar to what the Black ferns and other teams have used under Smith, seems to point to something changing.
He is a mentor they talk to every week more than once I know that for a fact.
just adding to that yes Razors head is on the line he needs to make his own decisions if things are not working.
But I answered a question on why tactics have changed since the Crusaders.I'd love to know the answer to this question. The way we are playing is very un-Canty and Saders-like. And that way is much more suited to test footy. Razor has to get back to his roots
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Can anyone remember how Razor's Crusaders teams played? My recollection was they did the basics well. But I could be wrong
Strong set piece, good kicking game and put a lot of phases together to exert pressure on the oppositions defence.
That's what I thought. That's what I based my hope for Razor on. So what is this shit we're being served up then???
The one different piece of the coaching puzzle is Wayne Smith this really is a fingerprint of Smiths helter skelter run at all costs game, as it was mentioned above the Black Ferns used this pattern as soon as Smith came on board.
I can only think he is the person setting this way of playing.
As it makes no sense Razor,Hansen especially had a completely different way of playing for 7 years at the Crusaders.Razor and Hansen are culpable. You can't make Smith a scape goat. He's only an occasional mentor.
Who said I am making him a scapegoat but why change a game plan that worked for 7 years and won 7 titles to a game plan similar to what the Black ferns and other teams have used under Smith, seems to point to something changing.
He is a mentor they talk to every week more than once I know that for a fact.
just adding to that yes Razors head is on the line he needs to make his own decisions if things are not working.
But I answered a question on why tactics have changed since the Crusaders.I'd love to know the answer to this question. The way we are playing is very un-Canty and Saders-like. And that way is much more suited to test footy. Razor has to get back to his roots
That is why I am saying there has been a massive shift away from the success of 7 years playing a test match type game.
Something has changed their thinking I am pointing out One reason maybe why.
And I will state it again that is on Razor wether he wants to do it or not. -
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Can anyone remember how Razor's Crusaders teams played? My recollection was they did the basics well. But I could be wrong
Strong set piece, good kicking game and put a lot of phases together to exert pressure on the oppositions defence.
That's what I thought. That's what I based my hope for Razor on. So what is this shit we're being served up then???
The one different piece of the coaching puzzle is Wayne Smith this really is a fingerprint of Smiths helter skelter run at all costs game, as it was mentioned above the Black Ferns used this pattern as soon as Smith came on board.
I can only think he is the person setting this way of playing.
As it makes no sense Razor,Hansen especially had a completely different way of playing for 7 years at the Crusaders.Razor and Hansen are culpable. You can't make Smith a scape goat. He's only an occasional mentor.
Who said I am making him a scapegoat but why change a game plan that worked for 7 years and won 7 titles to a game plan similar to what the Black ferns and other teams have used under Smith, seems to point to something changing.
He is a mentor they talk to every week more than once I know that for a fact.
just adding to that yes Razors head is on the line he needs to make his own decisions if things are not working.
But I answered a question on why tactics have changed since the Crusaders.I'd love to know the answer to this question. The way we are playing is very un-Canty and Saders-like. And that way is much more suited to test footy. Razor has to get back to his roots
That is why I am saying there has been a massive shift away from the success of 7 years playing a test match type game.
Something has changed their thinking I am pointing out One reason maybe why.
And I will state it again that is on Razor wether he wants to do it or not.@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Can anyone remember how Razor's Crusaders teams played? My recollection was they did the basics well. But I could be wrong
Strong set piece, good kicking game and put a lot of phases together to exert pressure on the oppositions defence.
That's what I thought. That's what I based my hope for Razor on. So what is this shit we're being served up then???
The one different piece of the coaching puzzle is Wayne Smith this really is a fingerprint of Smiths helter skelter run at all costs game, as it was mentioned above the Black Ferns used this pattern as soon as Smith came on board.
I can only think he is the person setting this way of playing.
As it makes no sense Razor,Hansen especially had a completely different way of playing for 7 years at the Crusaders.Razor and Hansen are culpable. You can't make Smith a scape goat. He's only an occasional mentor.
Who said I am making him a scapegoat but why change a game plan that worked for 7 years and won 7 titles to a game plan similar to what the Black ferns and other teams have used under Smith, seems to point to something changing.
He is a mentor they talk to every week more than once I know that for a fact.
just adding to that yes Razors head is on the line he needs to make his own decisions if things are not working.
But I answered a question on why tactics have changed since the Crusaders.I'd love to know the answer to this question. The way we are playing is very un-Canty and Saders-like. And that way is much more suited to test footy. Razor has to get back to his roots
That is why I am saying there has been a massive shift away from the success of 7 years playing a test match type game.
Something has changed their thinking I am pointing out One reason maybe why.
And I will state it again that is on Razor wether he wants to do it or not.I'm with you there. Even if he was taking advice from Smith, Razor is the boss so the buck stops with him
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Whilst Wayne Smith is an excellent coach - he is effectively the guy that set up the entire Crusaders system in the first place.
Obviously he's gone on to do a million other things in coaching but there is also the concern that it's still another voice coming from what Razor already knows - the Crusaders
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Crotty in to coach the backline.
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Whilst Wayne Smith is an excellent coach - he is effectively the guy that set up the entire Crusaders system in the first place.
Obviously he's gone on to do a million other things in coaching but there is also the concern that it's still another voice coming from what Razor already knows - the Crusaders
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Whilst Wayne Smith is an excellent coach - he is effectively the guy that set up the entire Crusaders system in the first place.
Obviously he's gone on to do a million other things in coaching but there is also the concern that it's still another voice coming from what Razor already knows - the Crusaders
But we aren't playing like the Saders. That is the weird thing
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That was an absolute shit-fest of a game and it's quite remarkable a loyal journeyman like Finlay Christie stood out as a key player, but the question is this a one-off or are we taking one step forward, two steps sideways an one step back?
The discipline was bloody awful. Where was the leadership? Scooter is a great lock but I'm unconvinced by his leadership. Pretty hard for Robertson to sack his captaincy and he not the only leader on the field, but there needs to be some discussions.
I really like Robertson sticking with new players for more than 1 or two Tests but the backline just isn't functioning. Either sort it out or get someone in who can - they've had plenty of time.
Don't think there's any need to panic right now, things were/are def. going in the right direction but with too many bumps on the way. That said, any more games like that and the chopping block will need to be taken out of storage an NZR HQ.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
The discipline was bloody awful. Where was the leadership? Scooter is a great lock but I'm unconvinced by his leadership. Pretty hard for Robertson to sack his captaincy and he not the only leader on the field, but there needs to be some discussions.
Agree, was surprised he ever got the captain nod, had a terrible record with his own ability to avoid getting carded.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Whilst Wayne Smith is an excellent coach - he is effectively the guy that set up the entire Crusaders system in the first place.
Obviously he's gone on to do a million other things in coaching but there is also the concern that it's still another voice coming from what Razor already knows - the Crusaders
But we aren't playing like the Saders. That is the weird thing
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Whilst Wayne Smith is an excellent coach - he is effectively the guy that set up the entire Crusaders system in the first place.
Obviously he's gone on to do a million other things in coaching but there is also the concern that it's still another voice coming from what Razor already knows - the Crusaders
But we aren't playing like the Saders. That is the weird thing
And the blue print to win test rugby was how the Crusaders suffocated the Chiefs in the SR Final with constant pressure.
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A few people have been impressed by Parkers debut I for one was disappointed and I am a fan of his.He tackled well but did miss a couple, but clearing rucks hitting over the advantage line and just hitting bodies hard I felt he was a bit passive.
I hope it is just First test nerves.
Siti came on and hit the line hard in my mind he needs to start at 8 against the Boks. -
Dmac needs to start.
The only reason he was dropped last year was for not beating Australia by more in Australia. It was a joke decision and has cost this team loads of development as we've wasted a year on washed up Beauden.
Ironically it turns out that Australia is a major threat now.
Beauden has held back our attack for near 7 years with his complete lack of a passing game. And even worse, his brother with a similar limitation is one out at 12.
