All Blacks 2025
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan to be fair to Beaudy - that 50:22 off his left foot was majestic!
I'm just jaded and bitter of the low percentage plays that give away possession without a corresponding territorial game.
Dollars to donuts if we dominated "contested kicks" WR would remove that aspect from the game. And that's precisely what we should be aiming for; forcing the powers that be to remove boring rugby.
As much as there's a rule you can't play on the ground, you shouldn't be able to play in the air. It's boring as fuck and I want to be entertained!
Because he didnt have time to think.....he was going to get mullered and just swung his bad foot at it.
Put him on his right foot with no pressure and ask him to do it.......
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@Jet said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Guys....we won!!!
Billed as the biggest test on NZ soil since the 2011 RWC Final - or maybe Lions III
We didn't lose the Eden Park voodoo. We stopped the rot vs the Jaapies. We're the number 1 team in the world and we're leading The Rugby Championship - with 2/3 home games to come.
Saw an article today suggesting we're a year ahead of Rassie in developing players for the next RWC.
Maybe the worm is turning!
Channel the Eagles: Take it easy. Don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy!
Ways to go yet, but def. getting there.
We re-captured the spirit of the RWC2023 knock-out stages last night and I think that's hugely significant as it's now with a set of forwards with some depth. Hope we can keep doing that.
Need to build some depth from 10-15 pretty urgently though. Looks a bit of a mess to me.
It's stale Victor.....historically, there was always shinier toys coming in through in the backs.....but we dont pick them anymore. There is a cozy cadre of incumbents.
Milner Skudder got 13 caps.....and then off to the knackers yard.
The likes of Rieko and ALB should not be 80 cappers.
Forwards win matches, backs decide by how much, as the old adage goes.
None of our players bar Jordan can create something out of nothing.
Absolutely spot on. We need to blood new backs for not only 2027 but beyond that.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
I think the big question is has Razor commited to having BB as the incumbent 10 to the next WC in 2027.
Even if he has he could be smarter by giving the backups time and experience at 10.
Biggest fault ATM IMO.I think he's waiting for Mo'unga's return and sees Barrett (because he's the most experienced) as his best chance of not losing games till then. No point in taking risks developing anyone else when he doesn't intend to use them at the World Cup even if they'd end up better than Barrett by that time.
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@mencey said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Guys....we won!!!
Billed as the biggest test on NZ soil since the 2011 RWC Final - or maybe Lions III
We didn't lose the Eden Park voodoo. We stopped the rot vs the Jaapies. We're the number 1 team in the world and we're leading The Rugby Championship - with 2/3 home games to come.
Saw an article today suggesting we're a year ahead of Rassie in developing players for the next RWC.
Maybe the worm is turning!
Channel the Eagles: Take it easy. Don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy!
Ways to go yet, but def. getting there.
We re-captured the spirit of the RWC2023 knock-out stages last night and I think that's hugely significant as it's now with a set of forwards with some depth. Hope we can keep doing that.
Need to build some depth from 10-15 pretty urgently though. Looks a bit of a mess to me.
It's stale Victor.....historically, there was always shinier toys coming in through in the backs.....but we dont pick them anymore. There is a cozy cadre of incumbents.
Milner Skudder got 13 caps.....and then off to the knackers yard.
The likes of Rieko and ALB should not be 80 cappers.
Forwards win matches, backs decide by how much, as the old adage goes.
None of our players bar Jordan can create something out of nothing.
Absolutely spot on. We need to blood new backs for not only 2027 but beyond that.
Every game that goes by without giving emerging talent game time is a missed opportunity. They'll go into the World Cup having to choose between slow, tired, well past it (but experienced!) players or exciting but unseasoned and potentially jittery options.
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@Jet said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank Yes, there’s still plenty to admire about BB. And he is a quintessential professional. No argument. My point, however, is the team is not developing. They’ve risked new names in the forwards in the past year and it’s paid off - Sititi, Holland, Parker - but they’re still shuffling from the same old deck in the backs. It seems inordinately conservative. To be fair, the half-back pandemic has tied their hands.
I think they actually kneecap their own bolters too with this method of conservatism.
You get selected for the squad ala Love or Leroy Carter and then instead of riding the crest of the wave of the media and familial circle jerk that follows, you're left to stew in camp for 4 or 5 or 6 weeks without getting a gig.
You must be a ball of nerves by the time you get your chance, and everything is riding on it (in your mind).
Whereas post initial selection, give them minutes off the bench in the first test or so and they can relax into camp after getting their cap and they properly feel like they belong.
Its also a reason I lament the disappearance of the early season "touch up" against a Fiji or a Tonga.
Give lads first caps, get monkeys off backs, pre/post match press conferences/interviews etc...then get on with the job at hand for the rest of the season with a fully bought in and not disillusioned squad.
Now we are having conversations like "you cant start Love against the Boks"......."you cant start Preston"......."you cant throw him in there" etc etc. Its nonsense.
I can't stand hearing this from people. This player can't play this game because he didn't play in other games he wasn't selected for either. It'll take forever easing players in waiting for them to tick up enough minutes against Japan and Italy before they can be promoted to five minutes off the bench against Wales etc.
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60-0 for the ABs against a 3rd tier nation is not higher pressure or higher quality than games between the top super sides full of ABs. If you want guys to step up, they have to be exposed to higher levels of footy.
There are quite a few recent examples where injury has been our best selector getting a guy a few starts he wouldn't have otherwise had and it paying off majorly; and there are fuck-all examples of us being hurt by throwing someone in the deep end.
There are also multiple examples of us being hurt by our supposedly senior and highly experienced players making shit decisions.
We are being pussies, and we need to stop it. Barrett, Reece, Ioane, ALB - none of them should be near the 23 right now barring injury. Barrett for me is the most egregious simply because he has the biggest influence on how godawful our backline attacking play and field kicking is, yet he is the one guy who seems untouchable. -
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph It's a bit poor to just turn up for the cash.
I would have picked Plummer last year instead of Perofeta, but he still would have been third choice. In my mind he's David Hill.
Reihana is promising, but doesn't look test ready.
I don't buy that these guys were/are the missing links.
DMac or Beaudy is the question - until the second coming!
If Plummer had been staying I would have picked him over Beauden at 10 for the Blues, and he was more successful.
I don't think he is/was the answer at AB level, he had one good year then fucked off - and it's not like his individual brilliance won that title.Plummer is actually a good option in a game like yesterday. He runs more direct, is a more physical tackler and is better at securing ball it the breakdown. These are requirements in the modern game for a 10.
His option taking is also better than both BB and Mckenzie.
What I found infuriating was we never saw whether his skillset could translate to Test rugby. We've become enamoured with 10s who "break games apart" rather than execute with consistency and are well-rounded enough that they keep defences honest whilst providing good, timely service to their outsides.
He played a season (or enough of one) to look good with a gameplan that sought to dominate in the forwards. Surely that's a capacity we want to see from our game managers - keep the ball in front of our forwards and give it to the backs when opportunity provides?
Instead I feel Razor's messaging in the media is for a 10 that waits until he can be in a position to exploit an opportunity himself. At least that's my impression.
Personally I want a 10 that decides quickly if there's opportunity for his outsides to do something and give them the opportunity or keep the ball in front of his forwards. Your 10 doesn't have to be the superstar.
I quite like Plummer as a player, and he had a good season. One good season. Plenty of guys have a few good seasons before they make the ABs, and he bolted after one.
What irks me is that in not giving Plummer a decent shot, the obvious argument for that is 'Plummer didn't win that comp, the Blues forwards did'. But we also didn't select the outstanding Blues forwards? -
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph It's a bit poor to just turn up for the cash.
I would have picked Plummer last year instead of Perofeta, but he still would have been third choice. In my mind he's David Hill.
Reihana is promising, but doesn't look test ready.
I don't buy that these guys were/are the missing links.
DMac or Beaudy is the question - until the second coming!
If Plummer had been staying I would have picked him over Beauden at 10 for the Blues, and he was more successful.
I don't think he is/was the answer at AB level, he had one good year then fucked off - and it's not like his individual brilliance won that title.You make some good points. But he played a significant part in the way that backline operated, and he was important to their winning season. And as you said you can only think. If Razor had given him a run perhaps we might have known if he was up to it or not
That is half my point though: you can't expect to become an incumbent AB based on one genuinely pretty good season. A frankly fucking amazing season like Hoskins had wasn't enough to even make the squad.
If you choose to leave at that point rather than back it up and press your claim, that's on you.Perhaps he saw he had no shot, and took the money. I could understand, DMac arguably outplayed BB last season and he can't get a start
Late last season, Fin Christie would have been thinking he had no remaining shot. They'd picked TJP - who they knew was leaving - ahead of him, along with the youngsters in the ABs and NZ A.
And yet, here we are.
Harry had made it into the frame - anything can happen from there.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
We are being pussies, and we need to stop it. Barrett, Reece, Ioane, ALB - none of them should be near the 23 right now barring injury. Barrett for me is the most egregious simply because he has the biggest influence on how godawful our backline attacking play and field kicking is, yet he is the one guy who seems untouchable.
I guess Beaudy's also the most egregious because they have dropped Reece and ALB for this game - and Rieko has been supplanted by Proctor at centre and is pretty clearly on thin ice on the wing, with Clarke fit again.
People are fond of saying the All Blacks are not a development team (it's not really true - you'd hope no-one is wandering round thinking they're the finished product) - but, for these SA tests - and Bled I, I definitely don't want any development selections. I want them picking what they think is their best team Win the next two and there's a bit of a free swing vs Oz in Australia.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
We are being pussies, and we need to stop it. Barrett, Reece, Ioane, ALB - none of them should be near the 23 right now barring injury. Barrett for me is the most egregious simply because he has the biggest influence on how godawful our backline attacking play and field kicking is, yet he is the one guy who seems untouchable.
I guess Beaudy's also the most egregious because they have dropped Reece and ALB for this game - and Rieko has been supplanted by Proctor at centre and is pretty clearly on thin ice on the wing, with Clarke fit again.
People are fond of saying the All Blacks are not a development team (it's not really true - you'd hope no-one is wandering round thinking they're the finished product) - but, for these SA tests - and Bled I, I definitely don't want any development selections. I want them picking what they think is their best team Win the next two and there's a bit of a free swing vs Oz in Australia.
The problem I have there is if Robertson had actively tried developing players this year and last (the majority of the newer players who are part of the team were only given a chance initially because of injury) he might have other options for the big games coming up in the next few weeks.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph It's a bit poor to just turn up for the cash.
I would have picked Plummer last year instead of Perofeta, but he still would have been third choice. In my mind he's David Hill.
Reihana is promising, but doesn't look test ready.
I don't buy that these guys were/are the missing links.
DMac or Beaudy is the question - until the second coming!
If Plummer had been staying I would have picked him over Beauden at 10 for the Blues, and he was more successful.
I don't think he is/was the answer at AB level, he had one good year then fucked off - and it's not like his individual brilliance won that title.You make some good points. But he played a significant part in the way that backline operated, and he was important to their winning season. And as you said you can only think. If Razor had given him a run perhaps we might have known if he was up to it or not
That is half my point though: you can't expect to become an incumbent AB based on one genuinely pretty good season. A frankly fucking amazing season like Hoskins had wasn't enough to even make the squad.
If you choose to leave at that point rather than back it up and press your claim, that's on you.Perhaps he saw he had no shot, and took the money. I could understand, DMac arguably outplayed BB last season and he can't get a start
Late last season, Fin Christie would have been thinking he had no remaining shot. They'd picked TJP - who they knew was leaving - ahead of him, along with the youngsters in the ABs and NZ A.
And yet, here we are.
Harry had made it into the frame - anything can happen from there.
They don't even give the 3rd 10 in the squad any game time at 10 - let alone anybody else
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@Goffman said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Chris-B the public doesn't give the ABs free swings though.
I know - it's a big part of the problem! There is very little to encourage taking risks.
We lost last week and the rowdy consensus here seemed to be that all the Ass. Coaches except Ryan should be rolled.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal But, we have capped quite a few - there's nearly a whole team of new caps - except at wing, where Narawa had only played a couple of tests under Fozzie.
Tosi, Norris
Bell, McAllister
Darry, Holland
Sititi, Lakai, Lio-Willie, Kirifi, Parker
Ratima, Hotham
Plummer
Tavatavanawai
Proctor
LoveThere's perhaps a half dozen players in our squad whose age is a potential issue for the next RWC - Taylor, SBarret, Tuipolotou, BBarrett, Ioane, Reece:
- and we've got four capped hookers behind Taylor;
- Vaai, Holland, Darry and Lord as young locks
- Mo'unga and DMac at first five
- would be good to build some wing depth, but we have Clarke, Big Leicester and Narawa - with Carter in the frame and I'm pretty sure Tangitau will be soon, now he's fit again.
I think we're jumping at shadows talking about lack of development.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Goffman said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Chris-B the public doesn't give the ABs free swings though.
I know - it's a big part of the problem! There is very little to encourage taking risks.
We lost last week and the rowdy consensus here seemed to be that all the Ass. Coaches except Ryan should be rolled.
It's calculated risk, to increase the chances of winning future games.
Keep the majority of the side the same, and swap in one or two. Not this bullshit playing the supposed A team in every game that matters then rolling out a whole B team to put in a disjointed as shit performance in a dead rubber and then using that to justify leaving better players out.
We need to be taking those risks. -
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@ShaquilleOatmeal But, we have capped quite a few - there's nearly a whole team of new caps - except at wing, where Narawa had only played a couple of tests under Fozzie.
Tosi, Norris
Bell, McAllister
Darry, Holland
Sititi, Lakai, Lio-Willie, Kirifi, Parker
Ratima, Hotham
Plummer
Tavatavanawai
Proctor
LoveThere's perhaps a half dozen players in our squad whose age is a potential issue for the next RWC - Taylor, SBarret, Tuipolotou, BBarrett, Ioane, Reece:
- and we've got four capped hookers behind Taylor;
- Vaai, Holland, Darry and Lord as young locks
- Mo'unga and DMac at first five
- would be good to build some wing depth, but we have Clarke, Big Leicester and Narawa - with Carter in the frame and I'm pretty sure Tangitau will be soon, now he's fit again.
I think we're jumping at shadows talking about lack of development.
Not the way I see it mate - a lot of the players on your list have had fuck-all opportunity, or only made the squad at all due to injury.
Proctor has had a decent go. Holland too. Tosi as a bench guy. That's it really. -
@reprobate Ratima and Sititi definitely.Darry's had 6 tests.
Finau had one or two I think under Fozzie and now has 12.
Guys who were capped this year - Norris and Lio-Willie have had three already. Kirifi has five. Parker will quickly rack up numbers from here. Several would have more if they weren't injured....
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
We lost last week and the rowdy consensus here seemed to be that all the Ass. Coaches except Ryan should be rolled
TBF that's not a horrible take given the tight 5 have been the only area that has functioned well.
We did score a sexy set piece try on the weekend, but the key pass was thrown by a loose forward, i think the backline/attack coach is still in the gun.
And if we take your developed players, they are basically all forwards. The back line revolution has been to move the long time centre back to the wing, and that's it. Which would be fine if they were performing, but they are not.
My conspiracy theory is that Razor is loving BB's sub-par play as it will make swapping him for Mounga a lot easier. If he brought in someone who played well, then poor old Richie won't get a gig.
