All Blacks 2025
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter They need to change their approach. The All Blacks still act as if inexperienced players should only get game time against minnows or when injuries force their hand. We always hear about the need to rest players and avoid overloading them. So why not rotate in one or two promising players each game, giving them a chance against quality opposition alongside the established core? If they handle it, reward them with another shot straight away. If not, let them bide their time until the next opening.
Isn't that largely what's been happening?
Test 1: Holland, Lio-Willie, Proctor, Norris, Kirifi
Test 2: Vaa'i at 6. Narawa, Tavatavanawai. Another go for Holland, CLW, Proctor, Norris, Kirifi.
Test 3: Kirifi starting. Love, McAllister, Hotham. Another go for Holland, CLW, Tavatavanawai.
Test 4: Vaaí at 6. Holland, Kirifi and Proctor all starting. Norris on the bench.
Test 5: Parker starting. Vaai, Holland, Proctor, Lord.
Test 6. Parker, Proctor, Narawa, Holland, Kirifi, Preston.@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter They need to change their approach. The All Blacks still act as if inexperienced players should only get game time against minnows or when injuries force their hand. We always hear about the need to rest players and avoid overloading them. So why not rotate in one or two promising players each game, giving them a chance against quality opposition alongside the established core? If they handle it, reward them with another shot straight away. If not, let them bide their time until the next opening.
Isn't that largely what's been happening?
Test 1: Holland, Lio-Willie, Proctor, Norris, Kirifi
Test 2: Vaa'i at 6. Narawa, Tavatavanawai. Another go for Holland, CLW, Proctor, Norris, Kirifi.
Test 3: Kirifi starting. Love, McAllister, Hotham. Another go for Holland, CLW, Tavatavanawai.
Test 4: Vaaí at 6. Holland, Kirifi and Proctor all starting. Norris on the bench.
Test 5: Parker starting. Vaai, Holland, Proctor, Lord.
Test 6. Parker, Proctor, Narawa, Holland, Kirifi, Preston.You and your "facts".
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter They need to change their approach. The All Blacks still act as if inexperienced players should only get game time against minnows or when injuries force their hand. We always hear about the need to rest players and avoid overloading them. So why not rotate in one or two promising players each game, giving them a chance against quality opposition alongside the established core? If they handle it, reward them with another shot straight away. If not, let them bide their time until the next opening.
Isn't that largely what's been happening?
Test 1: Holland, Lio-Willie, Proctor, Norris, Kirifi
Test 2: Vaa'i at 6. Narawa, Tavatavanawai. Another go for Holland, CLW, Proctor, Norris, Kirifi.
Test 3: Kirifi starting. Love, McAllister, Hotham. Another go for Holland, CLW, Tavatavanawai.
Test 4: Vaaí at 6. Holland, Kirifi and Proctor all starting. Norris on the bench.
Test 5: Parker starting. Vaai, Holland, Proctor, Lord.
Test 6. Parker, Proctor, Narawa, Holland, Kirifi, Preston.You and your "facts".
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter They need to change their approach. The All Blacks still act as if inexperienced players should only get game time against minnows or when injuries force their hand. We always hear about the need to rest players and avoid overloading them. So why not rotate in one or two promising players each game, giving them a chance against quality opposition alongside the established core? If they handle it, reward them with another shot straight away. If not, let them bide their time until the next opening.
Isn't that largely what's been happening?
Test 1: Holland, Lio-Willie, Proctor, Norris, Kirifi
Test 2: Vaa'i at 6. Narawa, Tavatavanawai. Another go for Holland, CLW, Proctor, Norris, Kirifi.
Test 3: Kirifi starting. Love, McAllister, Hotham. Another go for Holland, CLW, Tavatavanawai.
Test 4: Vaaí at 6. Holland, Kirifi and Proctor all starting. Norris on the bench.
Test 5: Parker starting. Vaai, Holland, Proctor, Lord.
Test 6. Parker, Proctor, Narawa, Holland, Kirifi, Preston.You and your "facts".
Shhh don’t let anything get in the way of the fact Razor has built more depth in the squad than Hansen and Foster ever did. Isn’t it nice to have six world class props, excellent depth at lock.
Having a six play six, a seven play seven, and an eight play eight for the first time since 2015?
Ooo and a midfield that hasn’t got ALB or Reiko in it.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
Plummer was adequate behind a dominant Blues pack
Heresy
Plummer was extremely effective playing a style whereby outside backs only got ball once oppo blue with strangulation.
Not sure any other 10 in NZ rugby could have filled that role better.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter They need to change their approach. The All Blacks still act as if inexperienced players should only get game time against minnows or when injuries force their hand. We always hear about the need to rest players and avoid overloading them. So why not rotate in one or two promising players each game, giving them a chance against quality opposition alongside the established core? If they handle it, reward them with another shot straight away. If not, let them bide their time until the next opening.
Isn't that largely what's been happening?
Test 1: Holland, Lio-Willie, Proctor, Norris, Kirifi
Test 2: Vaa'i at 6. Narawa, Tavatavanawai. Another go for Holland, CLW, Proctor, Norris, Kirifi.
Test 3: Kirifi starting. Love, McAllister, Hotham. Another go for Holland, CLW, Tavatavanawai.
Test 4: Vaaí at 6. Holland, Kirifi and Proctor all starting. Norris on the bench.
Test 5: Parker starting. Vaai, Holland, Proctor, Lord.
Test 6. Parker, Proctor, Narawa, Holland, Kirifi, Preston.You and your "facts".
Shhh don’t let anything get in the way of the fact Razor has built more depth in the squad than Hansen and Foster ever did. Isn’t it nice to have six world class props, excellent depth at lock.
Having a six play six, a seven play seven, and an eight play eight for the first time since 2015?
Ooo and a midfield that hasn’t got ALB or Reiko in it.
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Shhh don’t let anything get in the way of the fact Razor has built more depth in the squad than Hansen and Foster ever did. Isn’t it nice to have six world class props, excellent depth at lock.
Be interesting to know how many of those players Razor built depth with were originally selected into the ABs by him?
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Shhh don’t let anything get in the way of the fact Razor has built more depth in the squad than Hansen and Foster ever did. Isn’t it nice to have six world class props, excellent depth at lock.
Be interesting to know how many of those players Razor built depth with were originally selected into the ABs by him?
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Shhh don’t let anything get in the way of the fact Razor has built more depth in the squad than Hansen and Foster ever did. Isn’t it nice to have six world class props, excellent depth at lock.
Be interesting to know how many of those players Razor built depth with were originally selected into the ABs by him?
Ratima, proctor, Hotham, George Bell, Sititi, Tosi, Darry, Plummer, Lakai, Love, Holland, CLW, Kirifi, Norris, Tavatavanawai, Parker, Preston
17 players in 1.5 seasons.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Shhh don’t let anything get in the way of the fact Razor has built more depth in the squad than Hansen and Foster ever did. Isn’t it nice to have six world class props, excellent depth at lock.
Be interesting to know how many of those players Razor built depth with were originally selected into the ABs by him?
Ratima, proctor, Hotham, George Bell, Sititi, Tosi, Darry, Plummer, Lakai, Love, Holland, CLW, Kirifi, Norris, Tavatavanawai, Parker, Preston
17 players in 1.5 seasons.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb About a one in three hit rate.
Out of the 32 debutants Foster made between 2020 - 2023. Six were in the final 23 for the RWC final. Three starting (Jordan, Tele’a; De Groot). Three on the bench (Williams, Christie, Taukei’aho).
Foster also debuted Peter Umaga Jensen, Cullen Grace, Aidan Ross, Narawa, Stevenson, McLeod for one test.
Alex Hodgman, Josh Lord, Pita Gus Sowakula, Fakatava, RTS, Perofeta, Finaua for under 5 tests.
Only seven of the 32 have played over 20 tests (Clarke, Va’ai, Jordan, Bower, Christie, De Groot, Taukei’aho). Take away the caps under Robertson and that falls significantly.
I’d say that’s an absolute dogshite hit rate
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Shhh don’t let anything get in the way of the fact Razor has built more depth in the squad than Hansen and Foster ever did. Isn’t it nice to have six world class props, excellent depth at lock.
Be interesting to know how many of those players Razor built depth with were originally selected into the ABs by him?
Ratima, proctor, Hotham, George Bell, Sititi, Tosi, Darry, Plummer, Lakai, Love, Holland, CLW, Kirifi, Norris, Tavatavanawai, Parker, Preston
17 players in 1.5 seasons.
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Shhh don’t let anything get in the way of the fact Razor has built more depth in the squad than Hansen and Foster ever did. Isn’t it nice to have six world class props, excellent depth at lock.
Be interesting to know how many of those players Razor built depth with were originally selected into the ABs by him?
Ratima, proctor, Hotham, George Bell, Sititi, Tosi, Darry, Plummer, Lakai, Love, Holland, CLW, Kirifi, Norris, Tavatavanawai.
15 players in 1.5 seasons.
That's a lot of props and locks.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Shhh don’t let anything get in the way of the fact Razor has built more depth in the squad than Hansen and Foster ever did. Isn’t it nice to have six world class props, excellent depth at lock.
Be interesting to know how many of those players Razor built depth with were originally selected into the ABs by him?
Ratima, proctor, Hotham, George Bell, Sititi, Tosi, Darry, Plummer, Lakai, Love, Holland, CLW, Kirifi, Norris, Tavatavanawai.
15 players in 1.5 seasons.
That's a lot of props and locks.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Shhh don’t let anything get in the way of the fact Razor has built more depth in the squad than Hansen and Foster ever did. Isn’t it nice to have six world class props, excellent depth at lock.
Be interesting to know how many of those players Razor built depth with were originally selected into the ABs by him?
Ratima, proctor, Hotham, George Bell, Sititi, Tosi, Darry, Plummer, Lakai, Love, Holland, CLW, Kirifi, Norris, Tavatavanawai.
15 players in 1.5 seasons.
That's a lot of props and locks.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Shhh don’t let anything get in the way of the fact Razor has built more depth in the squad than Hansen and Foster ever did. Isn’t it nice to have six world class props, excellent depth at lock.
Be interesting to know how many of those players Razor built depth with were originally selected into the ABs by him?
Ratima, proctor, Hotham, George Bell, Sititi, Tosi, Darry, Plummer, Lakai, Love, Holland, CLW, Kirifi, Norris, Tavatavanawai.
15 players in 1.5 seasons.
That's a lot of props and locks.
Well Whitelock and Brodie retiring and the fact Foster only debuted two locks in 4 years (Va’ai and Lord) meant that had to happen.
Props; Lomax and Williams have been injured, Nepo Laulala left NZ, and the ABs desperately need a reserve front 3, which they now have
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb About a one in three hit rate.
Ratima, proctor, Hotham, George Bell, Sititi, Tosi, Darry, Plummer, Lakai, Love, Holland, CLW, Kirifi, Norris, Tavatavanawai, Parker, Preston
Plummer is gone, who else in this list isn’t a hit? Arguably CLW but he more than held his own and is a good back up at 8.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb About a one in three hit rate.
Ratima, proctor, Hotham, George Bell, Sititi, Tosi, Darry, Plummer, Lakai, Love, Holland, CLW, Kirifi, Norris, Tavatavanawai, Parker, Preston
Plummer is gone, who else in this list isn’t a hit? Arguably CLW but he more than held his own and is a good back up at 8.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb Let's see how many play 20 tests or more.
Stop moving the goal posts and admit Robertson’s inherited a shit show and is doing incredibly well to build depth in the limited time he’s had
@jimmyb I really don’t think he’s revolutionised anything. What has changed, which predates him, is that Jase Ryan has rebuilt AB set piece and has brought through the talent which was lurking at lower levels.
Although AB XV is useful, it seems it’s only once promising Super players play top ten test oppo we see if they are test match animals. Most aren’t, and some such as Kaino, take time to get there so need to give plenty a try, which Razor has. -
@jimmyb I really don’t think he’s revolutionised anything. What has changed, which predates him, is that Jase Ryan has rebuilt AB set piece and has brought through the talent which was lurking at lower levels.
Although AB XV is useful, it seems it’s only once promising Super players play top ten test oppo we see if they are test match animals. Most aren’t, and some such as Kaino, take time to get there so need to give plenty a try, which Razor has. -
Well if you look at the current make up of the 23 (assuming no injuries):
- De Groot (Foster RWC 23 starter)
- Taylor (Hansen RWC 23 Starter)
- Newell (Foster)
- Scott Barrett (Hansen RWC 23 starter)
- Va’ai (Foster)
- Parker ( Robertson)
- Savea (Hansen RWC 23 starter)
- Sititi (Robertson)
- Roigard ( Foster Debut 23)
- Barrett (Hansen RWC 23 starter)
- Ioane ( Hansen RWC 23 starter)
- J Barrett (Hansen RWC 23 Starter)
- Proctor (Robertson)
- Narawa (Foster - debut 23 one cap)
- Jordan (Foster)
- Taukei’aho (Foster)
- Williams (Foster RWC 23 bench)
- Lomax (Foster RWC 23 starter)
- Holland (Robertson)
- Kirifi/Lakai (Robertson)
- Ratima (Robertson)
- Tupaea (Foster)
- Dmac (Hansen RWC 23 bench)
Hansen Debutants: 7
Foster: 10
Robertson: 6Out of Fosters 11: Roigard, Va’ai, Newell, Tupea, Narawa had limited opportunities.
So in the current 23, who exactly has Foster had the most time with? And any forwards in particular that are setting the world on fire that weren’t brought in by Jason Ryan? What exactly did Foster develop in his four years?
Obviously apart from the two stooges at 10, a defunct centre pairing, a backrow with no depth at 6 or 8. Beauden at fullback, Christie as your 2nd halfback?
And out of the barely capped Foster debutants, should any of them not be there and Robertson should have selected another player?
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Well if you look at the current make up of the 23 (assuming no injuries):
- De Groot (Foster RWC 23 starter)
- Taylor (Hansen RWC 23 Starter)
- Newell (Foster)
- Scott Barrett (Hansen RWC 23 starter)
- Va’ai (Foster)
- Parker ( Robertson)
- Savea (Hansen RWC 23 starter)
- Sititi (Robertson)
- Roigard ( Foster Debut 23)
- Barrett (Hansen RWC 23 starter)
- Ioane ( Hansen RWC 23 starter)
- J Barrett (Hansen RWC 23 Starter)
- Proctor (Robertson)
- Narawa (Foster - debut 23 one cap)
- Jordan (Foster)
- Taukei’aho (Foster)
- Williams (Foster RWC 23 bench)
- Lomax (Foster RWC 23 starter)
- Holland (Robertson)
- Kirifi/Lakai (Robertson)
- Ratima (Robertson)
- Tupaea (Foster)
- Dmac (Hansen RWC 23 bench)
Hansen Debutants: 7
Foster: 10
Robertson: 6Out of Fosters 11: Roigard, Va’ai, Newell, Tupea, Narawa had limited opportunities.
So in the current 23, who exactly has Foster had the most time with? And any forwards in particular that are setting the world on fire that weren’t brought in by Jason Ryan? What exactly did Foster develop in his four years?
Obviously apart from the two stooges at 10, a defunct centre pairing, a backrow with no depth at 6 or 8. Beauden at fullback, Christie as your 2nd halfback?
And out of the barely capped Foster debutants, should any of them not be there and Robertson should have selected another player?
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@ShaquilleOatmeal But, we have capped quite a few - there's nearly a whole team of new caps - except at wing, where Narawa had only played a couple of tests under Fozzie.
Tosi, Norris
Bell, McAllister
Darry, Holland
Sititi, Lakai, Lio-Willie, Kirifi, Parker
Ratima, Hotham
Plummer
Tavatavanawai
Proctor
LoveThere's perhaps a half dozen players in our squad whose age is a potential issue for the next RWC - Taylor, SBarret, Tuipolotou, BBarrett, Ioane, Reece:
- and we've got four capped hookers behind Taylor;
- Vaai, Holland, Darry and Lord as young locks
- Mo'unga and DMac at first five
- would be good to build some wing depth, but we have Clarke, Big Leicester and Narawa - with Carter in the frame and I'm pretty sure Tangitau will be soon, now he's fit again.
I think we're jumping at shadows talking about lack of development.
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@Chris-B Agree, although it beggars belief how few caps Ruben Love has received for a potentially world class player.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B Agree, although it beggars belief how few caps Ruben Love has received for a potentially world class player.
Just like it took an injury to open the door for Sititi, Love might need to push BB down the stairs so DMac moves to 10, WJ moves to 14, and he gets to start at 15
