All Blacks 2025
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
Why don't we do warm up games anymore?
Test windows I'm picking. Those island teams are now mostly full of pros playing in Europe. So we'd be stuck playing something less like we did against Tonga last time out. (Fuck that was 4 years ago ... )
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B Sure. If you’re only criteria for a player with the requirements to play in a World Cup knock out game is that they’ve played at least one test match for any number of minutes at some stage in their career. Doesn’t matter if they’re actually any good or they’ve had significant minutes against quality opposition leading up to the tournament.
We’ve picked plenty of guys for World Cup campaigns that had only featured either in the year of the World Cup or the year prior.
I’m willing to guarantee that there will be players in 2027 RWC squad that aren’t in the squad right now.
Also, World Cup, shmups, what we do right now will not really have any sort of bearing on how we play in 2027.
When I look at past campaigns, both successful ones that we won or even outperformed most expectations, there was for example a change in play at the 3Ns of 2010 that didn’t reflect 08 or 09, but were the beginnings of how we would go about it in 2011. There were pitfalls along the way between that marker and entering the Cup.
I even think back to 07 and in 05 and 06 we were playing a certain style that was pretty expansive and then come the RWC we tightened up for that QF, so again what does 05 and 06 actually have to do with 07?
2019, well some say we didn’t learn the lessons of 2017 Lions, but our game had changed from an offload pace game in 2017 to something different in 2019.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
Anyone suggesting Love at 10 (and I a fan of his) is perhaps just a little loopy.
Call me loopy but I'd be happy to see Love given a run at 10. Not throwing him the keys long term but a start wouldn't be a bad thing.
If we win the next two tests would be more than happy for him to have a crack in Perth.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter They need to change their approach. The All Blacks still act as if inexperienced players should only get game time against minnows or when injuries force their hand. We always hear about the need to rest players and avoid overloading them. So why not rotate in one or two promising players each game, giving them a chance against quality opposition alongside the established core? If they handle it, reward them with another shot straight away. If not, let them bide their time until the next opening.
Isn't that largely what's been happening?
Test 1: Holland, Lio-Willie, Proctor, Norris, Kirifi
Test 2: Vaa'i at 6. Narawa, Tavatavanawai. Another go for Holland, CLW, Proctor, Norris, Kirifi.
Test 3: Kirifi starting. Love, McAllister, Hotham. Another go for Holland, CLW, Tavatavanawai.
Test 4: Vaaí at 6. Holland, Kirifi and Proctor all starting. Norris on the bench.
Test 5: Parker starting. Vaai, Holland, Proctor, Lord.
Test 6. Parker, Proctor, Narawa, Holland, Kirifi, Preston.You and your "facts".
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter They need to change their approach. The All Blacks still act as if inexperienced players should only get game time against minnows or when injuries force their hand. We always hear about the need to rest players and avoid overloading them. So why not rotate in one or two promising players each game, giving them a chance against quality opposition alongside the established core? If they handle it, reward them with another shot straight away. If not, let them bide their time until the next opening.
Isn't that largely what's been happening?
Test 1: Holland, Lio-Willie, Proctor, Norris, Kirifi
Test 2: Vaa'i at 6. Narawa, Tavatavanawai. Another go for Holland, CLW, Proctor, Norris, Kirifi.
Test 3: Kirifi starting. Love, McAllister, Hotham. Another go for Holland, CLW, Tavatavanawai.
Test 4: Vaaí at 6. Holland, Kirifi and Proctor all starting. Norris on the bench.
Test 5: Parker starting. Vaai, Holland, Proctor, Lord.
Test 6. Parker, Proctor, Narawa, Holland, Kirifi, Preston.You and your "facts".
Shhh don’t let anything get in the way of the fact Razor has built more depth in the squad than Hansen and Foster ever did. Isn’t it nice to have six world class props, excellent depth at lock.
Having a six play six, a seven play seven, and an eight play eight for the first time since 2015?
Ooo and a midfield that hasn’t got ALB or Reiko in it.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
Plummer was adequate behind a dominant Blues pack
Heresy
Plummer was extremely effective playing a style whereby outside backs only got ball once oppo blue with strangulation.
Not sure any other 10 in NZ rugby could have filled that role better.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Shhh don’t let anything get in the way of the fact Razor has built more depth in the squad than Hansen and Foster ever did. Isn’t it nice to have six world class props, excellent depth at lock.
Be interesting to know how many of those players Razor built depth with were originally selected into the ABs by him?
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Shhh don’t let anything get in the way of the fact Razor has built more depth in the squad than Hansen and Foster ever did. Isn’t it nice to have six world class props, excellent depth at lock.
Be interesting to know how many of those players Razor built depth with were originally selected into the ABs by him?
Ratima, proctor, Hotham, George Bell, Sititi, Tosi, Darry, Plummer, Lakai, Love, Holland, CLW, Kirifi, Norris, Tavatavanawai, Parker, Preston
17 players in 1.5 seasons.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb About a one in three hit rate.
Out of the 32 debutants Foster made between 2020 - 2023. Six were in the final 23 for the RWC final. Three starting (Jordan, Tele’a; De Groot). Three on the bench (Williams, Christie, Taukei’aho).
Foster also debuted Peter Umaga Jensen, Cullen Grace, Aidan Ross, Narawa, Stevenson, McLeod for one test.
Alex Hodgman, Josh Lord, Pita Gus Sowakula, Fakatava, RTS, Perofeta, Finaua for under 5 tests.
Only seven of the 32 have played over 20 tests (Clarke, Va’ai, Jordan, Bower, Christie, De Groot, Taukei’aho). Take away the caps under Robertson and that falls significantly.
I’d say that’s an absolute dogshite hit rate
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Shhh don’t let anything get in the way of the fact Razor has built more depth in the squad than Hansen and Foster ever did. Isn’t it nice to have six world class props, excellent depth at lock.
Be interesting to know how many of those players Razor built depth with were originally selected into the ABs by him?
Ratima, proctor, Hotham, George Bell, Sititi, Tosi, Darry, Plummer, Lakai, Love, Holland, CLW, Kirifi, Norris, Tavatavanawai.
15 players in 1.5 seasons.
That's a lot of props and locks.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Shhh don’t let anything get in the way of the fact Razor has built more depth in the squad than Hansen and Foster ever did. Isn’t it nice to have six world class props, excellent depth at lock.
Be interesting to know how many of those players Razor built depth with were originally selected into the ABs by him?
Ratima, proctor, Hotham, George Bell, Sititi, Tosi, Darry, Plummer, Lakai, Love, Holland, CLW, Kirifi, Norris, Tavatavanawai.
15 players in 1.5 seasons.
That's a lot of props and locks.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Shhh don’t let anything get in the way of the fact Razor has built more depth in the squad than Hansen and Foster ever did. Isn’t it nice to have six world class props, excellent depth at lock.
Be interesting to know how many of those players Razor built depth with were originally selected into the ABs by him?
Ratima, proctor, Hotham, George Bell, Sititi, Tosi, Darry, Plummer, Lakai, Love, Holland, CLW, Kirifi, Norris, Tavatavanawai.
15 players in 1.5 seasons.
That's a lot of props and locks.
Well Whitelock and Brodie retiring and the fact Foster only debuted two locks in 4 years (Va’ai and Lord) meant that had to happen.
Props; Lomax and Williams have been injured, Nepo Laulala left NZ, and the ABs desperately need a reserve front 3, which they now have
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb About a one in three hit rate.
Ratima, proctor, Hotham, George Bell, Sititi, Tosi, Darry, Plummer, Lakai, Love, Holland, CLW, Kirifi, Norris, Tavatavanawai, Parker, Preston
Plummer is gone, who else in this list isn’t a hit? Arguably CLW but he more than held his own and is a good back up at 8.
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@jimmyb I really don’t think he’s revolutionised anything. What has changed, which predates him, is that Jase Ryan has rebuilt AB set piece and has brought through the talent which was lurking at lower levels.
Although AB XV is useful, it seems it’s only once promising Super players play top ten test oppo we see if they are test match animals. Most aren’t, and some such as Kaino, take time to get there so need to give plenty a try, which Razor has. -
Well if you look at the current make up of the 23 (assuming no injuries):
- De Groot (Foster RWC 23 starter)
- Taylor (Hansen RWC 23 Starter)
- Newell (Foster)
- Scott Barrett (Hansen RWC 23 starter)
- Va’ai (Foster)
- Parker ( Robertson)
- Savea (Hansen RWC 23 starter)
- Sititi (Robertson)
- Roigard ( Foster Debut 23)
- Barrett (Hansen RWC 23 starter)
- Ioane ( Hansen RWC 23 starter)
- J Barrett (Hansen RWC 23 Starter)
- Proctor (Robertson)
- Narawa (Foster - debut 23 one cap)
- Jordan (Foster)
- Taukei’aho (Foster)
- Williams (Foster RWC 23 bench)
- Lomax (Foster RWC 23 starter)
- Holland (Robertson)
- Kirifi/Lakai (Robertson)
- Ratima (Robertson)
- Tupaea (Foster)
- Dmac (Hansen RWC 23 bench)
Hansen Debutants: 7
Foster: 10
Robertson: 6Out of Fosters 11: Roigard, Va’ai, Newell, Tupea, Narawa had limited opportunities.
So in the current 23, who exactly has Foster had the most time with? And any forwards in particular that are setting the world on fire that weren’t brought in by Jason Ryan? What exactly did Foster develop in his four years?
Obviously apart from the two stooges at 10, a defunct centre pairing, a backrow with no depth at 6 or 8. Beauden at fullback, Christie as your 2nd halfback?
And out of the barely capped Foster debutants, should any of them not be there and Robertson should have selected another player?
