All Blacks 2025
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph It's a bit poor to just turn up for the cash.
I would have picked Plummer last year instead of Perofeta, but he still would have been third choice. In my mind he's David Hill.
Reihana is promising, but doesn't look test ready.
I don't buy that these guys were/are the missing links.
DMac or Beaudy is the question - until the second coming!
If Plummer had been staying I would have picked him over Beauden at 10 for the Blues, and he was more successful.
I don't think he is/was the answer at AB level, he had one good year then fucked off - and it's not like his individual brilliance won that title.You make some good points. But he played a significant part in the way that backline operated, and he was important to their winning season. And as you said you can only think. If Razor had given him a run perhaps we might have known if he was up to it or not
That is half my point though: you can't expect to become an incumbent AB based on one genuinely pretty good season. A frankly fucking amazing season like Hoskins had wasn't enough to even make the squad.
If you choose to leave at that point rather than back it up and press your claim, that's on you.Perhaps he saw he had no shot, and took the money. I could understand, DMac arguably outplayed BB last season and he can't get a start
Late last season, Fin Christie would have been thinking he had no remaining shot. They'd picked TJP - who they knew was leaving - ahead of him, along with the youngsters in the ABs and NZ A.
And yet, here we are.
Harry had made it into the frame - anything can happen from there.
They don't even give the 3rd 10 in the squad any game time at 10 - let alone anybody else
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@Goffman said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Chris-B the public doesn't give the ABs free swings though.
I know - it's a big part of the problem! There is very little to encourage taking risks.
We lost last week and the rowdy consensus here seemed to be that all the Ass. Coaches except Ryan should be rolled.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal But, we have capped quite a few - there's nearly a whole team of new caps - except at wing, where Narawa had only played a couple of tests under Fozzie.
Tosi, Norris
Bell, McAllister
Darry, Holland
Sititi, Lakai, Lio-Willie, Kirifi, Parker
Ratima, Hotham
Plummer
Tavatavanawai
Proctor
LoveThere's perhaps a half dozen players in our squad whose age is a potential issue for the next RWC - Taylor, SBarret, Tuipolotou, BBarrett, Ioane, Reece:
- and we've got four capped hookers behind Taylor;
- Vaai, Holland, Darry and Lord as young locks
- Mo'unga and DMac at first five
- would be good to build some wing depth, but we have Clarke, Big Leicester and Narawa - with Carter in the frame and I'm pretty sure Tangitau will be soon, now he's fit again.
I think we're jumping at shadows talking about lack of development.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Goffman said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Chris-B the public doesn't give the ABs free swings though.
I know - it's a big part of the problem! There is very little to encourage taking risks.
We lost last week and the rowdy consensus here seemed to be that all the Ass. Coaches except Ryan should be rolled.
It's calculated risk, to increase the chances of winning future games.
Keep the majority of the side the same, and swap in one or two. Not this bullshit playing the supposed A team in every game that matters then rolling out a whole B team to put in a disjointed as shit performance in a dead rubber and then using that to justify leaving better players out.
We need to be taking those risks. -
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@ShaquilleOatmeal But, we have capped quite a few - there's nearly a whole team of new caps - except at wing, where Narawa had only played a couple of tests under Fozzie.
Tosi, Norris
Bell, McAllister
Darry, Holland
Sititi, Lakai, Lio-Willie, Kirifi, Parker
Ratima, Hotham
Plummer
Tavatavanawai
Proctor
LoveThere's perhaps a half dozen players in our squad whose age is a potential issue for the next RWC - Taylor, SBarret, Tuipolotou, BBarrett, Ioane, Reece:
- and we've got four capped hookers behind Taylor;
- Vaai, Holland, Darry and Lord as young locks
- Mo'unga and DMac at first five
- would be good to build some wing depth, but we have Clarke, Big Leicester and Narawa - with Carter in the frame and I'm pretty sure Tangitau will be soon, now he's fit again.
I think we're jumping at shadows talking about lack of development.
Not the way I see it mate - a lot of the players on your list have had fuck-all opportunity, or only made the squad at all due to injury.
Proctor has had a decent go. Holland too. Tosi as a bench guy. That's it really. -
@reprobate Ratima and Sititi definitely.Darry's had 6 tests.
Finau had one or two I think under Fozzie and now has 12.
Guys who were capped this year - Norris and Lio-Willie have had three already. Kirifi has five. Parker will quickly rack up numbers from here. Several would have more if they weren't injured....
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
We lost last week and the rowdy consensus here seemed to be that all the Ass. Coaches except Ryan should be rolled
TBF that's not a horrible take given the tight 5 have been the only area that has functioned well.
We did score a sexy set piece try on the weekend, but the key pass was thrown by a loose forward, i think the backline/attack coach is still in the gun.
And if we take your developed players, they are basically all forwards. The back line revolution has been to move the long time centre back to the wing, and that's it. Which would be fine if they were performing, but they are not.
My conspiracy theory is that Razor is loving BB's sub-par play as it will make swapping him for Mounga a lot easier. If he brought in someone who played well, then poor old Richie won't get a gig.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@ShaquilleOatmeal But, we have capped quite a few - there's nearly a whole team of new caps - except at wing, where Narawa had only played a couple of tests under Fozzie.
Tosi, Norris
Bell, McAllister
Darry, Holland
Sititi, Lakai, Lio-Willie, Kirifi, Parker
Ratima, Hotham
Plummer
Tavatavanawai
Proctor
LoveThere's perhaps a half dozen players in our squad whose age is a potential issue for the next RWC - Taylor, SBarret, Tuipolotou, BBarrett, Ioane, Reece:
- and we've got four capped hookers behind Taylor;
- Vaai, Holland, Darry and Lord as young locks
- Mo'unga and DMac at first five
- would be good to build some wing depth, but we have Clarke, Big Leicester and Narawa - with Carter in the frame and I'm pretty sure Tangitau will be soon, now he's fit again.
I think we're jumping at shadows talking about lack of development.
Most of those guys got their opportunity because of injury. And there's a big difference between players having one or two test caps against Japan, Italy or a few minutes from the bench here and there against better opposition and players racking up enough minutes in total (not just caps) against quality opposition to be genuine options in big games. George Bell isn't an option for a World Cup knock out game because he's capped.
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Fozzie and Razor have both had the same challenge previous coaches didn't - they got/get no warm up games anymore. We used to blood players against the Island nations etc, but since Fozzie took over we've just been going straight into Tier 1 nations to start the season. Neither have had any real chance to blood players without throwing them in the deep end and hoping they don't sink. Given the ABs are expected to win every match, I have quite a bit of sympathy for both coaches being put in that position. Why don't we do warm up games anymore?
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Fozzie and Razor have both had the same challenge previous coaches didn't - they got/get no warm up games anymore. We used to blood players against the Island nations etc, but since Fozzie took over we've just been going straight into Tier 1 nations to start the season. Neither have had any real chance to blood players without throwing them in the deep end and hoping they don't sink. Given the ABs are expected to win every match, I have quite a bit of sympathy for both coaches being put in that position. Why don't we do warm up games anymore?
Bro, France C?
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph It's a bit poor to just turn up for the cash.
I would have picked Plummer last year instead of Perofeta, but he still would have been third choice. In my mind he's David Hill.
Reihana is promising, but doesn't look test ready.
I don't buy that these guys were/are the missing links.
DMac or Beaudy is the question - until the second coming!
If Plummer had been staying I would have picked him over Beauden at 10 for the Blues, and he was more successful.
I don't think he is/was the answer at AB level, he had one good year then fucked off - and it's not like his individual brilliance won that title.You make some good points. But he played a significant part in the way that backline operated, and he was important to their winning season. And as you said you can only think. If Razor had given him a run perhaps we might have known if he was up to it or not
That is half my point though: you can't expect to become an incumbent AB based on one genuinely pretty good season. A frankly fucking amazing season like Hoskins had wasn't enough to even make the squad.
If you choose to leave at that point rather than back it up and press your claim, that's on you.Perhaps he saw he had no shot, and took the money. I could understand, DMac arguably outplayed BB last season and he can't get a start
Late last season, Fin Christie would have been thinking he had no remaining shot. They'd picked TJP - who they knew was leaving - ahead of him, along with the youngsters in the ABs and NZ A.
And yet, here we are.
Harry had made it into the frame - anything can happen from there.
They don't even give the 3rd 10 in the squad any game time at 10 - let alone anybody else
They're planning on going to RWC2027 with Mo'unga, Beaudy and DMac as their three first fives. Do we need another option?
2011 we had DC - and then absolute rookies in Slade and Cruden - and then the discarded Beaver.
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@reprobate France are a Teir 1 nation and nearly beat us despite leaving so many at home, as they have the best depth of any Tier 1 side right now. That's not the same as a warm up against Samoa, clearly.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph It's a bit poor to just turn up for the cash.
I would have picked Plummer last year instead of Perofeta, but he still would have been third choice. In my mind he's David Hill.
Reihana is promising, but doesn't look test ready.
I don't buy that these guys were/are the missing links.
DMac or Beaudy is the question - until the second coming!
If Plummer had been staying I would have picked him over Beauden at 10 for the Blues, and he was more successful.
I don't think he is/was the answer at AB level, he had one good year then fucked off - and it's not like his individual brilliance won that title.You make some good points. But he played a significant part in the way that backline operated, and he was important to their winning season. And as you said you can only think. If Razor had given him a run perhaps we might have known if he was up to it or not
That is half my point though: you can't expect to become an incumbent AB based on one genuinely pretty good season. A frankly fucking amazing season like Hoskins had wasn't enough to even make the squad.
If you choose to leave at that point rather than back it up and press your claim, that's on you.Perhaps he saw he had no shot, and took the money. I could understand, DMac arguably outplayed BB last season and he can't get a start
Late last season, Fin Christie would have been thinking he had no remaining shot. They'd picked TJP - who they knew was leaving - ahead of him, along with the youngsters in the ABs and NZ A.
And yet, here we are.
Harry had made it into the frame - anything can happen from there.
They don't even give the 3rd 10 in the squad any game time at 10 - let alone anybody else
They're planning on going to RWC2027 with Mo'unga, Beaudy and DMac as their three first fives. Do we need another option?
2011 we had DC - and then absolute rookies in Slade and Cruden - and then the discarded Beaver.
I get that. Which is why Plummer left. He knew he had no chance.
To say that Plummer should have stuck around because the ABs suffered an insane halfback injury crisis is the bit I have an issue with.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
They're planning on going to RWC2027 with Mo'unga, Beaudy and DMac as their three first fives. Do we need another option?
So that's it is it?
Shop is all closed up?A then 36 year old is already locked in, in apparently the best rugby team in the world.
One would hope we could show a little more ambition in unearthing young talent.
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@No-Quarter They need to change their approach. The All Blacks still act as if inexperienced players should only get game time against minnows or when injuries force their hand. We always hear about the need to rest players and avoid overloading them. So why not rotate in one or two promising players each game, giving them a chance against quality opposition alongside the established core? If they handle it, reward them with another shot straight away. If not, let them bide their time until the next opening.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
And if we take your developed players, they are basically all forwards. The back line revolution has been to move the long time centre back to the wing, and that's it. Which would be fine if they were performing, but they are not.
My conspiracy theory is that Razor is loving BB's sub-par play as it will make swapping him for Mounga a lot easier. If he brought in someone who played well, then poor old Richie won't get a gig.
At halfback, the first three are Roigard, Ratima and Hotham - all of whom happen to be injured. Roigard got capped under Fozzie, but he's still a newbie. Christie was gone until the injury crisis brought him back along with Preston.
First five - last year DMac got a bunch of test starts - prior to that he'd had five starts - I think - at first five. The die is already cast there.
Havili's been moved on, looks like ALB might be in the process of being. Proctor appears to be the first choice centre now - that's new - they'll have to keep Rieko in the frame because the centre well looks pretty dry beyond him. Tupaea making a resurgence. Timoci has entered the frame. Jordan has shifted from the wing to fullback (though plenty here are trying to retrograde that step!). Teleá is gone. Narawa got the nod ahead of Reece.
There's certainly movement.
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Smith and TJ retired, they weren't moved on.
Yes, Havili was moved on, but he was just a squaddie anyway. ALB was still in the team a fortnight ago.
Jordan to 15 was always going to happen, especially when they decided BB was the 10 again.
Reece was kept on despite being shithouse last year.I am mainly fucked off because bringing BB back in to the 10 shirt has been pretty much a disaster bailed out by a really fucking good pack, and our backline looking completely devoid of threat outside of a couple of Will Jordan individual moments.
If we had competent coaching we would be engineering opportunities for Will in space as often as we could. Look at Australia and Sua'ali'i or France and LBB -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@ShaquilleOatmeal But, we have capped quite a few - there's nearly a whole team of new caps - except at wing, where Narawa had only played a couple of tests under Fozzie.
Tosi, Norris
Bell, McAllister
Darry, Holland
Sititi, Lakai, Lio-Willie, Kirifi, Parker
Ratima, Hotham
Plummer
Tavatavanawai
Proctor
LoveThere's perhaps a half dozen players in our squad whose age is a potential issue for the next RWC - Taylor, SBarret, Tuipolotou, BBarrett, Ioane, Reece:
- and we've got four capped hookers behind Taylor;
- Vaai, Holland, Darry and Lord as young locks
- Mo'unga and DMac at first five
- would be good to build some wing depth, but we have Clarke, Big Leicester and Narawa - with Carter in the frame and I'm pretty sure Tangitau will be soon, now he's fit again.
I think we're jumping at shadows talking about lack of development.
Not the way I see it mate - a lot of the players on your list have had fuck-all opportunity, or only made the squad at all due to injury.
Proctor has had a decent go. Holland too. Tosi as a bench guy. That's it really.Sititi and Parker both started the last test, Ratima clearly in the frame.
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@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
They're planning on going to RWC2027 with Mo'unga, Beaudy and DMac as their three first fives. Do we need another option?
So that's it is it?
Shop is all closed up?A then 36 year old is already locked in, in apparently the best rugby team in the world.
One would hope we could show a little more ambition in unearthing young talent.
The shop's never completely closed - especially if someone comes along to bash the door down. But, who is really commanding a place ahead of these three? It's clearly the plan.
It wouldn't surprise me (there it is, Frank) if the coaches'preferred next cab off the rank is the injured Perofeta. Love wasn't really first choice for his franchise (I think he's covering for DMac's role) - Reihana? Jacombe?
But, plans are becoming clear. Barring injury, I reckon I can confidently name 75 percent of our RWC 2027 squad already.
