All Blacks 2025
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Far too much throwing out the baby with the bathwater here.
Dropping Sititi and Vaa'i, who were NZ's two best players last year and are in still in good form this year, is mad.
You'd reward Sititi's performance with another cap?
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
We lost last week and the rowdy consensus here seemed to be that all the Ass. Coaches except Ryan should be rolled.
Not just the assistants. All of them
Who would you bring in Duluth?
Not sure if Joe Schmidt (if it's true he can't work with current NZRFU) would come in, but he must be 1st choice.
Then Jamie Joseph, Vern Cotter, others?@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
We lost last week and the rowdy consensus here seemed to be that all the Ass. Coaches except Ryan should be rolled.
Not just the assistants. All of them
Who would you bring in Duluth?
Not sure if Joe Schmidt (if it's true he can't work with current NZRFU) would come in, but he must be 1st choice.
Then Jamie Joseph, Vern Cotter, others?Joseph, Brown and Rennie/Filippo. Schmidt as an advisor.
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@antipodean The idea that he's in good form is pure delusion.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean The idea that he's in good form is pure delusion.
Sititi is certainly having a bit of second year dip, but it's to be expected, especially given his injury and the fact that he wasn't actually that good on his return. He's not a super worker style 8, so I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve by playing Savea and Sititi together.
He gets a bit of shit on here, but when you look at the Chiefs and what makes the Chiefs click as a loose forward unit, it is Luke Jacobson as the common element.
He didn't play in the loss to the Blues and was clearly concussed in the final versus the Saders. When he was at 7, the balance was about right. When he was out, we lacked starch. It seems like the AB coaches haven't figured that - and many many other things - out yet.
Edit: This isn't to suggest that we need LJ, just to suggest that they aren't achieving balance.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Far too much throwing out the baby with the bathwater here.
Dropping Sititi and Vaa'i, who were NZ's two best players last year and are in still in good form this year, is mad.
You'd reward Sititi's performance with another cap?
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Far too much throwing out the baby with the bathwater here.
Dropping Sititi and Vaa'i, who were NZ's two best players last year and are in still in good form this year, is mad.
You'd reward Sititi's performance with another cap?
I didn't think it was a bad performance, personally.
Don't think the All Blacks had many issues in the forwards outside of the set-piece.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean The idea that he's in good form is pure delusion.
Sititi is certainly having a bit of second year dip, but it's to be expected, especially given his injury and the fact that he wasn't actually that good on his return. He's not a super worker style 8, so I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve by playing Savea and Sititi together.
He gets a bit of shit on here, but when you look at the Chiefs and what makes the Chiefs click as a loose forward unit, it is Luke Jacobson as the common element.
He didn't play in the loss to the Blues and was clearly concussed in the final versus the Saders. When he was at 7, the balance was about right. When he was out, we lacked starch. It seems like the AB coaches haven't figured that - and many many other things - out yet.
Edit: This isn't to suggest that we need LJ, just to suggest that they aren't achieving balance.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Far too much throwing out the baby with the bathwater here.
Dropping Sititi and Vaa'i, who were NZ's two best players last year and are in still in good form this year, is mad.
You'd reward Sititi's performance with another cap?
I didn't think it was a bad performance, personally.
Don't think the All Blacks had many issues in the forwards outside of the set-piece.
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@gt12 Papalii is a vastly better player than Jacobson, who has failed every time he has played test rugby. Great player for the Chiefs, but crazy that he is in the squad. Much better than Kirifi though.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 Papalii is a vastly better player than Jacobson, who has failed every time he has played test rugby. Great player for the Chiefs, but crazy that he is in the squad. Much better than Kirifi though.
All Kirifi does is pull his pants up to show off his massive thighs he doesn't have and bang his chest to impress the social media crowd with his 'passion'.
Surely we can move on from him now?
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@Mr-Fish That was our worst ever loss, and our forwards were completely dominated in the 2nd half. Not consistent with reality.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish That was our worst ever loss, and our forwards were completely dominated in the 2nd half. Not consistent with reality.
Yeah doesn't get much worse than this.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 Papalii is a vastly better player than Jacobson, who has failed every time he has played test rugby. Great player for the Chiefs, but crazy that he is in the squad. Much better than Kirifi though.
All Kirifi does is pull his pants up to show off his massive thighs he doesn't have and bang his chest to impress the social media crowd with his 'passion'.
Surely we can move on from him now?
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 Papalii is a vastly better player than Jacobson, who has failed every time he has played test rugby. Great player for the Chiefs, but crazy that he is in the squad. Much better than Kirifi though.
All Kirifi does is pull his pants up to show off his massive thighs he doesn't have and bang his chest to impress the social media crowd with his 'passion'.
Surely we can move on from him now?
Yeah, not Samoan enough.
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 Papalii is a vastly better player than Jacobson, who has failed every time he has played test rugby. Great player for the Chiefs, but crazy that he is in the squad. Much better than Kirifi though.
All Kirifi does is pull his pants up to show off his massive thighs he doesn't have and bang his chest to impress the social media crowd with his 'passion'.
Surely we can move on from him now?
Yeah, not Samoan enough.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 Papalii is a vastly better player than Jacobson, who has failed every time he has played test rugby. Great player for the Chiefs, but crazy that he is in the squad. Much better than Kirifi though.
All Kirifi does is pull his pants up to show off his massive thighs he doesn't have and bang his chest to impress the social media crowd with his 'passion'.
Surely we can move on from him now?
Yeah, not Samoan enough.
Agreed.
Lalomilo Lalomilo would be better.
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@gt12 Papalii is a vastly better player than Jacobson, who has failed every time he has played test rugby. Great player for the Chiefs, but crazy that he is in the squad. Much better than Kirifi though.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 Papalii is a vastly better player than Jacobson, who has failed every time he has played test rugby. Great player for the Chiefs, but crazy that he is in the squad. Much better than Kirifi though.
Hold on, I'm not arguing for LJ - I'd have Papalii there too.
My point is that they still don't have balance and don't seem to be able to see how to reach it.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 Papalii is a vastly better player than Jacobson, who has failed every time he has played test rugby. Great player for the Chiefs, but crazy that he is in the squad. Much better than Kirifi though.
Hold on, I'm not arguing for LJ - I'd have Papalii there too.
My point is that they still don't have balance and don't seem to be able to see how to reach it.
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@Mr-Fish That was our worst ever loss, and our forwards were completely dominated in the 2nd half. Not consistent with reality.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish That was our worst ever loss, and our forwards were completely dominated in the 2nd half. Not consistent with reality.
We're NZ's forwards dominated outside of the set piece?
SA built a good lead, NZ didn't know how to respond and then when they got too far behind started getting far too loose (and frankly looked like they'd given up, which is a bigger concern). Throw in the missed line outs, the scrum penalties and the high ball issues, and that's why it was NZ's biggest ever loss.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish That was our worst ever loss, and our forwards were completely dominated in the 2nd half. Not consistent with reality.
We're NZ's forwards dominated outside of the set piece?
SA built a good lead, NZ didn't know how to respond and then when they got too far behind started getting far too loose (and frankly looked like they'd given up, which is a bigger concern). Throw in the missed line outs, the scrum penalties and the high ball issues, and that's why it was NZ's biggest ever loss.
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Both Jacobson and Dalton have plenty of experience and would be MUCH better options at 7 than Savea. I've said it before but it's absolutely insane that Dalton isn't our starting 7 after Cane, towards the end of Canes career Dalton was the better player. The anti Blues bias is hurting us big time.
Sititi should have been in the squad to learn off Sotutu and Savea as an 8 (if there was even room for him), not be thrown in the deep end at 6 in his first year. Now he's asked to play 8 again, and if he was told to put on weight as suggested by one poster here then it's not surprising he's lost his main attribute which was his dynamism. Injury hasn't helped either, but that's just braindead stuff from the coaches.
Blind fucking Freddy can see that starting both Savea and Sititi will never work in the modern game. But our coaches not only do that, but they put a player like Kirifi on the bench! This combo might work at Super level but at test level, not a fucking chance.
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The vast majority of the Springboks side that were thumped 57-0 in 2017 were kept in the team and went on to win the RWC two years later.
More or less the same team that beat the Springboks last week ran out this week. Sometimes results swing one way or another. Fix the high ball game, fix the set piece and the All Blacks will be fine. Some of those things require personnel changes, som or them don't.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
The vast majority of the Springboks side that were thumped 57-0 in 2017 were kept in the team and went on to win the RWC two years later.
More or less the same team that beat the Springboks last week ran out this week. Sometimes results swing one way or another. Fix the high ball game, fix the set piece and the All Blacks will be fine. Some of those things require personnel changes, som or them don't.
Nah sorry Mr Fish.......
Even when we win its scratchy as fuck.
We are going life and death with everyone.
The team is leaderless, rudderless and shits their Calvin Kleins at the first sign of adversity.
We were a George Ford missed penalty (off the post) and missed drop goal away from losing to England too.
We won 16-15 in Razors first game against England.
24-17 in test 2 against England.
Shipped 38 points at home to lose to Argentina.
Shipped 31 against the Boks and lost by 4.
Beat the Wallabies 31-28.....winning by a pubic hair.
Beat England 24-22 in the aforementioned George Ford game, with Telea saving our asses......
Shipped 30 against France and lost by a point.
Beat Italy 29-11
Beat France (B) (C)??? 31-27 shipping a load of points again.
Lost 29-23 to Argentina.
Lost 43-10 to the Boks.This is a team who regularly ships 30 points and when they win, barely win.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
The vast majority of the Springboks side that were thumped 57-0 in 2017 were kept in the team and went on to win the RWC two years later.
More or less the same team that beat the Springboks last week ran out this week. Sometimes results swing one way or another. Fix the high ball game, fix the set piece and the All Blacks will be fine. Some of those things require personnel changes, som or them don't.
Nah sorry Mr Fish.......
Even when we win its scratchy as fuck.
We are going life and death with everyone.
The team is leaderless, rudderless and shits their Calvin Kleins at the first sign of adversity.
We were a George Ford missed penalty (off the post) and missed drop goal away from losing to England too.
We won 16-15 in Razors first game against England.
24-17 in test 2 against England.
Shipped 38 points at home to lose to Argentina.
Shipped 31 against the Boks and lost by 4.
Beat the Wallabies 31-28.....winning by a pubic hair.
Beat England 24-22 in the aforementioned George Ford game, with Telea saving our asses......
Shipped 30 against France and lost by a point.
Beat Italy 29-11
Beat France (B) (C)??? 31-27 shipping a load of points again.
Lost 29-23 to Argentina.
Lost 43-10 to the Boks.This is a team who regularly ships 30 points and when they win, barely win.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
The vast majority of the Springboks side that were thumped 57-0 in 2017 were kept in the team and went on to win the RWC two years later.
More or less the same team that beat the Springboks last week ran out this week. Sometimes results swing one way or another. Fix the high ball game, fix the set piece and the All Blacks will be fine. Some of those things require personnel changes, som or them don't.
Nah sorry Mr Fish.......
Even when we win its scratchy as fuck.
We are going life and death with everyone.
The team is leaderless, rudderless and shits their Calvin Kleins at the first sign of adversity.
We were a George Ford missed penalty (off the post) and missed drop goal away from losing to England too.
We won 16-15 in Razors first game against England.
24-17 in test 2 against England.
Shipped 38 points at home to lose to Argentina.
Shipped 31 against the Boks and lost by 4.
Beat the Wallabies 31-28.....winning by a pubic hair.
Beat England 24-22 in the aforementioned George Ford game, with Telea saving our asses......
Shipped 30 against France and lost by a point.
Beat Italy 29-11
Beat France (B) (C)??? 31-27 shipping a load of points again.
Lost 29-23 to Argentina.
Lost 43-10 to the Boks.This is a team who regularly ships 30 points and when they win, barely win.
To be clear, I think NZ should be performing considerably better. Fully agree that they've flattered to deceive.
I just don't think the major issue with the team is the personnel that was selected in the latest match, or at least not in the forwards.
The halves aren't right (obviously there's an injury issue at 9 so that's more permissable at the moment) and Razor needs to select a centre that can defend, which means either Ioane or ALB (was all for Proctor at the start of the year but he's been found out on too many occasions). Think Jordan is a better wing than fullback (at least at international level) and Love needs to be tested.
The big problem now is that the young guys coming through don't have the right mentors in the team who are experienced and locked in in one position who they can learn from.
