Stupid ideas to fix rugby
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@Jet said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
Make the games 100 minutes long.
We need the players to get smaller.
I think the general premise of bringing back fatigue as a factor is something that should be considered. Games used to open up in a way they don't at the moment.
The simplest way to do that is cut down the time spent setting scrums and lineouts. That's what stands out on old footage - from knock-on whistle to 'engage' it's about 20-30 seconds. Now it's 2 minutes plus. Get forwards jogging to the set piece, no time spent with hands on heads, and you get a much better flow and more tired players.
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Current game feels like LawyerBall, I'm sick of hearing a ref saying "Hands Off", just penalise them FFS. They'll soon learn. Would also stop a lot of the feeling of inconsistent application of Laws.
Sport should be about players knowing the Laws, recognising a situation and taking a risk for a play.
Instead we have this stage managed shit.
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@W32 said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
@Kirwan said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
I was watching some youtube videos of old rugby games (YouTube algorithm must have been trying to cheer me up) and I had the following thoughts;
1 - Michael Jones was even better than I remembered
2 - We should make the ball heavier (bonus points for making it brown)
3- Lifting in lineouts is horrible, I preferred the carnage of the old lineouts - an actual contest
4 - Call scrums from rucks more often, that's disappeared from the modern gameObviously the ruck needs work, that probably needs it's own thread. But I think making the ball heavier and reducing the distance you can do for passing and kicking would be a good thing.
Lineouts carnage was far more interesting and skillful, and a genuine contest for possession. Would make it harder to create a lineout drive too.
We have dumbed down rugby, lets reverse the trend, make getting tired part of the game again and get the players smaller as a result.
Come at me.
Why is it that kiwis want to fix rugby when their team isn’t on top?
Jokes aside, enjoying the current laws that have sped up the game
I'm probably in a minority here, but I would genuinely prefer watching a replay of us taking that record pumping than, say, a reply of that dire Boks England WC semi. Some of the play (by far mostly yours) was really good.
That the game has problems is not new. Both AU-ARG games were good fun, but too often it is a slow, box-kick fest decided by a card, with an incident equally card-worthy being missed in the other direction - and I'm too old to waste my time watching shit rugby where the difficulty of reffing the game and seeing everything decides the result.
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@barbarian said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
@Jet said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
Make the games 100 minutes long.
We need the players to get smaller.
I think the general premise of bringing back fatigue as a factor is something that should be considered. Games used to open up in a way they don't at the moment.
The simplest way to do that is cut down the time spent setting scrums and lineouts. That's what stands out on old footage - from knock-on whistle to 'engage' it's about 20-30 seconds. Now it's 2 minutes plus. Get forwards jogging to the set piece, no time spent with hands on heads, and you get a much better flow and more tired players.
Yep, that 30 seconds timeout for scrums and lineouts is a good plan. Call a mark ruthlessly if exceeded, no warnings, and watch the game open up.
Would help teams with skillful, powerful scrums as well. No hiding from a scrum with delaying tactics.
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On a tangent, the refs have obviously being given a directive to be stricter when players kick to touch from a penalty to make sure it is from the mark. Some 1st 5s used to take the piss and advance 2-5 m in front.
BOK was particularly vigilant. Our Georgian work experience ref, less so.
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Surprisingly ball in play has crept up steadily since the 80s. There’s actually less stoppages now than ever before.
Problem with big changes to player fatigue levels is that even small increases result in far greater risk of injury.
Also there’s a huge tension between the conditioning/physiques needed to scrum safely and effectively and that required to play multiphase running rugby.
So probably the best way to encourage wide attacking rugby, greater defensive commitment to the ruck and fewer stoppages is to:
a) reward committing more players to the ruck with possession NOT penalties;
b) lower the risk of going wide with too little support from a likely penalty to simply losing possession; and
c) make sure that refs see their role at the ruck as a fair fight for possession that should rarely result in a penalty.
Get rid of every ruck rule. Replace with: must enter from your side of the ball (more or less & regardless of angle) & only players on their feet count and may play the ball.
So basically the ELVs - which were awesome to play under and produced great rugby.
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@Kirwan said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
@barbarian said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
@Jet said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
Make the games 100 minutes long.
We need the players to get smaller.
I think the general premise of bringing back fatigue as a factor is something that should be considered. Games used to open up in a way they don't at the moment.
The simplest way to do that is cut down the time spent setting scrums and lineouts. That's what stands out on old footage - from knock-on whistle to 'engage' it's about 20-30 seconds. Now it's 2 minutes plus. Get forwards jogging to the set piece, no time spent with hands on heads, and you get a much better flow and more tired players.
Yep, that 30 seconds timeout for scrums and lineouts is a good plan. Call a mark ruthlessly if exceeded, no warnings, and watch the game open up.
Would help teams with skillful, powerful scrums as well. No hiding from a scrum with delaying tactics.
Fakes injuries also a blight. Easily solved by making anyone who goes down with an injury go off until they are fixed up and not allowed to return until after the next stoppage
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@Kiwiwomble said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
@W32 said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
@Kirwan said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
I was watching some youtube videos of old rugby games (YouTube algorithm must have been trying to cheer me up) and I had the following thoughts;
1 - Michael Jones was even better than I remembered
2 - We should make the ball heavier (bonus points for making it brown)
3- Lifting in lineouts is horrible, I preferred the carnage of the old lineouts - an actual contest
4 - Call scrums from rucks more often, that's disappeared from the modern gameObviously the ruck needs work, that probably needs it's own thread. But I think making the ball heavier and reducing the distance you can do for passing and kicking would be a good thing.
Lineouts carnage was far more interesting and skillful, and a genuine contest for possession. Would make it harder to create a lineout drive too.
We have dumbed down rugby, lets reverse the trend, make getting tired part of the game again and get the players smaller as a result.
Come at me.
> Why is it that kiwis want to fix rugby when their team isn’t on top?
Jokes aside, enjoying the current laws that have sped up the game
its actually a good question.
Au contraire. Complaints about time in play and loss of the contest for possession were numerous during the golden period.
People suggesting we should increase set play competitiveness and frequency when our team just got mullered is hardly looking for an easy solution to our current dilemma.
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@Smuts said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
Surprisingly ball in play has crept up steadily since the 80s. There’s actually less stoppages now than ever before.
Problem with big changes to player fatigue levels is that even small increases result in far greater risk of injury.
Also there’s a huge tension between the conditioning/physiques needed to scrum safely and effectively and that required to play multiphase running rugby.
So probably the best way to encourage wide attacking rugby, greater defensive commitment to the ruck and fewer stoppages is to:
a) reward committing more players to the ruck with possession NOT penalties;
b) lower the risk of going wide with too little support from a likely penalty to simply losing possession; and
c) make sure that refs see their role at the ruck as a fair fight for possession that should rarely result in a penalty.
Get rid of every ruck rule. Replace with: must enter from your side of the ball (more or less & regardless of angle) & only players on their feet count and may play the ball.
So basically the ELVs - which were awesome to play under and produced great rugby.
Nice post. Simplification with a focus on contest for possession.
Personally, I'd remove penalties for scrum infringements until it's actually them trying to not-scrum. Scrumming for a penalty is a blight on the game.
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@gt12 said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
@Smuts said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
Surprisingly ball in play has crept up steadily since the 80s. There’s actually less stoppages now than ever before.
Problem with big changes to player fatigue levels is that even small increases result in far greater risk of injury.
Also there’s a huge tension between the conditioning/physiques needed to scrum safely and effectively and that required to play multiphase running rugby.
So probably the best way to encourage wide attacking rugby, greater defensive commitment to the ruck and fewer stoppages is to:
a) reward committing more players to the ruck with possession NOT penalties;
b) lower the risk of going wide with too little support from a likely penalty to simply losing possession; and
c) make sure that refs see their role at the ruck as a fair fight for possession that should rarely result in a penalty.
Get rid of every ruck rule. Replace with: must enter from your side of the ball (more or less & regardless of angle) & only players on their feet count and may play the ball.
So basically the ELVs - which were awesome to play under and produced great rugby.
Nice post. Simplification with a focus on contest for possession.
Personally, I'd remove penalties for scrum infringements until it's actually them trying to not-scrum. Scrumming for a penalty is a blight on the game.
100% scrum is a competition for the ball...the reward for dominating one should be the ball...not 3 points
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@Kiwiwomble or a subsequent PT & YC, all because you are not as good as your opposition.
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@taniwharugby said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
@Kiwiwomble or a subsequent PT & YC, all because you are not as good as your opposition.
exactly, the overwhelming majority of scrum infringements are enforced by a dominant opposition scrum, the idea that a team a team could then ALSO be down a person...because they were already not as good...is distasteful, free kick and play ball
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@gt12 said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
@Smuts said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
Surprisingly ball in play has crept up steadily since the 80s. There’s actually less stoppages now than ever before.
Problem with big changes to player fatigue levels is that even small increases result in far greater risk of injury.
Also there’s a huge tension between the conditioning/physiques needed to scrum safely and effectively and that required to play multiphase running rugby.
So probably the best way to encourage wide attacking rugby, greater defensive commitment to the ruck and fewer stoppages is to:
a) reward committing more players to the ruck with possession NOT penalties;
b) lower the risk of going wide with too little support from a likely penalty to simply losing possession; and
c) make sure that refs see their role at the ruck as a fair fight for possession that should rarely result in a penalty.
Get rid of every ruck rule. Replace with: must enter from your side of the ball (more or less & regardless of angle) & only players on their feet count and may play the ball.
So basically the ELVs - which were awesome to play under and produced great rugby.
Nice post. Simplification with a focus on contest for possession.
Personally, I'd remove penalties for scrum infringements until it's actually them trying to not-scrum. Scrumming for a penalty is a blight on the game.
Absolutely. Just reset the scrum with the feed going to the non-infringing team. So long as I can scrum my way to the try line without being told to use it and regardless of numbers of resets I’m happy.
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@Kiwiwomble should be 5 points with the chance of a further 2, if you’re good enough.
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@Kiwiwomble or the assumption that suddenly in the next scrum they will improve enough to not succomb to the pressure.
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@Smuts said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
@gt12 said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
@Smuts said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
Surprisingly ball in play has crept up steadily since the 80s. There’s actually less stoppages now than ever before.
Problem with big changes to player fatigue levels is that even small increases result in far greater risk of injury.
Also there’s a huge tension between the conditioning/physiques needed to scrum safely and effectively and that required to play multiphase running rugby.
So probably the best way to encourage wide attacking rugby, greater defensive commitment to the ruck and fewer stoppages is to:
a) reward committing more players to the ruck with possession NOT penalties;
b) lower the risk of going wide with too little support from a likely penalty to simply losing possession; and
c) make sure that refs see their role at the ruck as a fair fight for possession that should rarely result in a penalty.
Get rid of every ruck rule. Replace with: must enter from your side of the ball (more or less & regardless of angle) & only players on their feet count and may play the ball.
So basically the ELVs - which were awesome to play under and produced great rugby.
Nice post. Simplification with a focus on contest for possession.
Personally, I'd remove penalties for scrum infringements until it's actually them trying to not-scrum. Scrumming for a penalty is a blight on the game.
Absolutely. Just reset the scrum with the feed going to the non-infringing team. So long as I can scrum my way to the try line without being told to use it and regardless of numbers of resets I’m happy.
just allow pushover tries and scrums within 5 m of the line. Used to be a real option, shoudl be again.
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i think you can march a scrum 5m (allowing dominant teams to go for tried form 5m scrum), after that if you have it you play it, if it goes down free kick to dominate scrum
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But that's the way it is at the moment, but these marchings/pushovers are negated by the weaker side folding in or collapsing.
I'm fine with a penalty if that happens, but I hate a team holding it at the back and waiting for a collapse to try and force it. I thought we changed the rule to make teams play the ball if it's available, but seems not to have made a difference.
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@barbarian said in Stupid ideas to fix rugby:
But that's the way it is at the moment, but these marchings/pushovers are negated by the weaker side folding in or collapsing.
I'm fine with a penalty if that happens, but I hate a team holding it at the back and waiting for a collapse to try and force it. I thought we changed the rule to make teams play the ball if it's available, but seems not to have made a difference.
i think it has been better this year, its available at the back of collapsed weve seen it played rather than the halfback having a winge, better than its been in a while...but still not perfect
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@barbarian but we don’t want to play it* - we want to push the bastards all the way past their tryline. And we resent extremely having jumped up little nerds telling us to play it because the other side are shit at scrumming but good at cheating.
I dream of the day when some team, RugbyGods’ willing the Boks, march another team’s scrum 40 yards for a pushover try. That would thrill purists and rugby illiterates alike.
*or rather scrumming is playing it making the call both unnecessary and confusing.
