All Blacks 2025
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Beaudy, ALB, Rieko, Reece, Perenara, Christie, Scooter as captain, all examples of tough decisions not being made.
Very very tough
Most of those guys will be on very fat, and very long contracts.But NZR does have a lot of players on their books.
All pro players in NZ (including provincial) are NZR employees.
600 to 700 players to choose from.The NZRU aren't as rich as an epl team but players there on huge locked in contracts get sat down constantly. Why should we be any different - if the player is cooked - stand him down and if he isn't getting better or his replacement is knocking the cover off the ball offer yhe star a present value pay off (plus you are probably replacing him with a player that you have contracted at a lower rate?).
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
how many games did we actually get out of him? i dont actually feel it was that many
26 starts at fullback
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
how many games did we actually get out of him? i dont actually feel it was that many
26 starts at fullback
damn really? starts? ignore me then, felt it was only one season so less than 10, 26 is a good run
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The NZRU aren't as rich as an epl team but players there on huge locked in contracts get sat down constantly. Why should we be any different - if the player is cooked - stand him down and if he isn't getting better or his replacement is knocking the cover off the ball offer yhe star a present value pay off (plus you are probably replacing him with a player that you have contracted at a lower rate?).
@Old-Alleynians said in All Blacks 2025:
The NZRU aren't as rich as an epl team but players there on huge locked in contracts get sat down constantly. Why should we be any different - if the player is cooked - stand him down and if he isn't getting better or his replacement is knocking the cover off the ball offer yhe star a present value pay off (plus you are probably replacing him with a player that you have contracted at a lower rate?).
i think you answered your own questions....NZR would say they cant afford to pay players not to play
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
I can't believe people are calling for Jordie back to 15.
Do people forget how slow and laborious he was on the counter? Or trying to link up in the line to feed the wingers??
And he isn't that much better than Dmac in the air so why would we want to sacrifice so much offensive capability for near zero gain on the aerial side of the game?
how many games did we actually get out of him? i dont actually feel it was that many and if im not mistaken mainly during the covid season, i think everyone needs second chances as it was pretty messed up
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
I can't believe people are calling for Jordie back to 15.
Do people forget how slow and laborious he was on the counter? Or trying to link up in the line to feed the wingers??
And he isn't that much better than Dmac in the air so why would we want to sacrifice so much offensive capability for near zero gain on the aerial side of the game?
how many games did we actually get out of him? i dont actually feel it was that many and if im not mistaken mainly during the covid season, i think everyone needs second chances as it was pretty messed up
He was a test fullback back in 2018, then his brother relegated him to the bench in 2019, he was mostly a wing in 2020., then fullback 2021.
I really don't understand what Covid has to do with anything, everyone played under the same circumstances.
If they want to give him a third chance based on his maturing as a player then fine, it's the overhyping his previous times there that is a bit on the nose.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
I can't believe people are calling for Jordie back to 15.
Do people forget how slow and laborious he was on the counter? Or trying to link up in the line to feed the wingers??
And he isn't that much better than Dmac in the air so why would we want to sacrifice so much offensive capability for near zero gain on the aerial side of the game?
how many games did we actually get out of him? i dont actually feel it was that many and if im not mistaken mainly during the covid season, i think everyone needs second chances as it was pretty messed up
He was a test fullback back in 2018, then his brother relegated him to the bench in 2019, he was mostly a wing in 2020., then fullback 2021.
I really don't understand what Covid has to do with anything, everyone played under the same circumstances.
If they want to give him a third chance based on his maturing as a player then fine, it's the overhyping his previous times there that is a bit on the nose.
@Nepia ive just said above i had forgotten how many games he'd had there as it felt like it was only a few during 2020 and that might be important as it was very messed up with lockdowns and quarantines etc, didnlt think it was a crazy idea to think it might effect people and that different people would handle it differently, but as @Duluth has said looks like he had a good run outside that (where you think that matters or not) and so not an issue
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@Nepia ive just said above i had forgotten how many games he'd had there as it felt like it was only a few during 2020 and that might be important as it was very messed up with lockdowns and quarantines etc, didnlt think it was a crazy idea to think it might effect people and that different people would handle it differently, but as @Duluth has said looks like he had a good run outside that (where you think that matters or not) and so not an issue
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia ive just said above i had forgotten how many games he'd had there as it felt like it was only a few during 2020 and that might be important as it was very messed up with lockdowns and quarantines etc, didnlt think it was a crazy idea to think it might effect people and that different people would handle it differently, but as @Duluth has said looks like he had a good run outside that (where you think that matters or not) and so not an issue
I think I must have posted my message just after your second one.
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@Nepia I have deja vu, pretty sure we've had this debate before, I think you are massively under selling how effective he was at the back for us. Superb under the high ball, rock solid defender, long kicking game and good passing game are all attributes that led to him being MOTM on a number of occasions. He's absolutely saved our bacon when teams were barraging us with high balls more than once, that could have been useful on the weekend.
They moved him to the wing because they still wanted him in the back three while being able to keep Beauden on the park, but that was an absurd decision given the one thing he lacks is acceleration.
When he was moved to 12 he was our first choice FB and it wasn't close, and I'd like to see him moved back given how poor our back three have been lately.
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Have players become protected due to their brand power for the All Blacks brand??
It's like its no longer a NZ rep team but a club/franchise.@BorderJB said in All Blacks 2025:
Have players become protected due to their brand power for the All Blacks brand??
It's like its no longer a NZ rep team but a club/franchise.i dont feel anyone we currently have has the brand recognition of former players, yeah they can get sabbatical gigs but non of them are getting the rig out for a toffee pop add
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I can't believe people are calling for Jordie back to 15.
Do people forget how slow and laborious he was on the counter? Or trying to link up in the line to feed the wingers??
And he isn't that much better than Dmac in the air so why would we want to sacrifice so much offensive capability for near zero gain on the aerial side of the game?
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
I can't believe people are calling for Jordie back to 15.
Do people forget how slow and laborious he was on the counter? Or trying to link up in the line to feed the wingers??
And he isn't that much better than Dmac in the air so why would we want to sacrifice so much offensive capability for near zero gain on the aerial side of the game?
I think JB would be top 3 in the air from the squad. Clarke being the best.
None are as good as Jane, Dagg, Kahui or Smith in the air. Its like we forgot the reason we went to those players.
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@BorderJB said in All Blacks 2025:
Have players become protected due to their brand power for the All Blacks brand??
It's like its no longer a NZ rep team but a club/franchise.i dont feel anyone we currently have has the brand recognition of former players, yeah they can get sabbatical gigs but non of them are getting the rig out for a toffee pop add
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
@BorderJB said in All Blacks 2025:
Have players become protected due to their brand power for the All Blacks brand??
It's like its no longer a NZ rep team but a club/franchise.i dont feel anyone we currently have has the brand recognition of former players, yeah they can get sabbatical gigs but non of them are getting the rig out for a toffee pop add
The current stars are spoiled rotten. Buck was one of our greatest captains, he got unceremoniously dumped. Now they just give caps away to some of the older guys
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Have players become protected due to their brand power for the All Blacks brand??
It's like its no longer a NZ rep team but a club/franchise.@BorderJB said in All Blacks 2025:
Have players become protected due to their brand power for the All Blacks brand??
It's like its no longer a NZ rep team but a club/franchise.Maybe but more than anything winning protects the brand and when its a loss its a close loss. Capitulation is completely unacceptable to the brand.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
I can't believe people are calling for Jordie back to 15.
Do people forget how slow and laborious he was on the counter? Or trying to link up in the line to feed the wingers??
And he isn't that much better than Dmac in the air so why would we want to sacrifice so much offensive capability for near zero gain on the aerial side of the game?
I think JB would be top 3 in the air from the squad. Clarke being the best.
None are as good as Jane, Dagg, Kahui or Smith in the air. Its like we forgot the reason we went to those players.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
I can't believe people are calling for Jordie back to 15.
Do people forget how slow and laborious he was on the counter? Or trying to link up in the line to feed the wingers??
And he isn't that much better than Dmac in the air so why would we want to sacrifice so much offensive capability for near zero gain on the aerial side of the game?
I think JB would be top 3 in the air from the squad. Clarke being the best.
None are as good as Jane, Dagg, Kahui or Smith in the air. Its like we forgot the reason we went to those players.
something ive noticed, they all try and take high balls on their chest....and i know thats taught as the safer option...but i also cant help but think the best in the world should be able to do better than the safe option, especially when we see the regular situation of it bouncing off their chest forward...... when i look at AFL taking marks above their head...yes a smaller ball but also one without any grip....i wonder.....
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@Old-Alleynians said in All Blacks 2025:
The NZRU aren't as rich as an epl team but players there on huge locked in contracts get sat down constantly. Why should we be any different - if the player is cooked - stand him down and if he isn't getting better or his replacement is knocking the cover off the ball offer yhe star a present value pay off (plus you are probably replacing him with a player that you have contracted at a lower rate?).
i think you answered your own questions....NZR would say they cant afford to pay players not to play
@Kiwiwomble And that's the problem. No player should ever be bigger than any shirt or jersey, let alone The Black Jersey.
That we have players who think they are bigger than The Black Jersey speaks of appalling management.
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Yep, it really feels like we have lost our All Blacks to the corporate world and perhaps for good.
How do we get them back?
Maybe it's time I got more into League? It doesn't seem so full of the bullshit that's polluted NZR and has become its new DNA.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Yep, it really feels like we have lost our All Blacks to the corporate world and perhaps for good.
Fozzie's book says as much; the Commercial team at NZR is increasingly driving decisions to ensure profitability... and if it's anything like RA, for the benefit of their own KPIs.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Yep, it really feels like we have lost our All Blacks to the corporate world and perhaps for good.
Fozzie's book says as much; the Commercial team at NZR is increasingly driving decisions to ensure profitability... and if it's anything like RA, for the benefit of their own KPIs.
@NTA The long golden era of NZ Rugby was great while it lasted. But it's gone.
My hope is that there are still enough people involved in the grassroots of the game in New Zealand who understand its core values who will eventually wrestle back control from the corporate muppets.
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@NTA The long golden era of NZ Rugby was great while it lasted. But it's gone.
My hope is that there are still enough people involved in the grassroots of the game in New Zealand who understand its core values who will eventually wrestle back control from the corporate muppets.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@NTA The long golden era of NZ Rugby was great while it lasted. But it's gone.
My hope is that there are still enough people involved in the grassroots of the game in New Zealand who understand its core values who will eventually wrestle back control from the corporate muppets.
Well, when you talk to people involved in the grassroots, it isn't exactly shining.
School programs warehousing players, club scene struggling particularly in regional areas, and more competition from weekend work, other sports, and people not having the time to volunteer.
I think at the top level it is still going to be good, in terms of winning percentage etc, but difficult to re-create the McCaw years.
Sounds like Australia and the Macqueen era TBH.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
I can't believe people are calling for Jordie back to 15.
Do people forget how slow and laborious he was on the counter? Or trying to link up in the line to feed the wingers??
And he isn't that much better than Dmac in the air so why would we want to sacrifice so much offensive capability for near zero gain on the aerial side of the game?
I think JB would be top 3 in the air from the squad. Clarke being the best.
None are as good as Jane, Dagg, Kahui or Smith in the air. Its like we forgot the reason we went to those players.
@brodean was more than one occasion on Saturday when more than 1 player went for the ball, and IIRC it was a forward trunddling back and interfering with our back coming forward. Do they not call anymore?
The forwards should be working back be in position to secure the ball from the catch, not getting in the way, just more evidence these guys are not on the same page.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Read one earlier where Richard Loe was questioning SB as well, form and leadership.
Said when watchign several times in the 'huddles' too many people were talking, he wasnt the 'leader'
I'm not disagreeing, but I think that captain change suits the media. It seems incredibly hard for them to even consider that Razor isn't the right guy for the role.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Read one earlier where Richard Loe was questioning SB as well, form and leadership.
Said when watchign several times in the 'huddles' too many people were talking, he wasnt the 'leader'
I'm not disagreeing, but I think that captain change suits the media. It seems incredibly hard for them to even consider that Razor isn't the right guy for the role.
I think the main difference with the media between fozzie and razor ,
With Fozzie they believed we had a super coach in waiting ( razor ) and he will have all the solutions
Now they are dumbfounded it isn’t looking so good and they don’t have a plan B to speak of
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@upthelanders said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean I 100% agree with this, Leicester at 12, Jordie to 15, Will and Carter on the wings.
He needs a Super Rugby season to show what he has there at least. I don't really see him being better than Lam at 12 and I don't see either of them moving JB from there.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@upthelanders said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean I 100% agree with this, Leicester at 12, Jordie to 15, Will and Carter on the wings.
He needs a Super Rugby season to show what he has there at least. I don't really see him being better than Lam at 12 and I don't see either of them moving JB from there.
and unlike Jordie Lam can play wing. And has played 13 as well at a pinch.
But:I don't really see <Crusader> being better than <Blues> at 12 and I don't see either of them moving <not Crusader but Captain Crusader's brother> from there.
