All Blacks 2025
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@Nepia I have deja vu, pretty sure we've had this debate before, I think you are massively under selling how effective he was at the back for us. Superb under the high ball, rock solid defender, long kicking game and good passing game are all attributes that led to him being MOTM on a number of occasions. He's absolutely saved our bacon when teams were barraging us with high balls more than once, that could have been useful on the weekend.
They moved him to the wing because they still wanted him in the back three while being able to keep Beauden on the park, but that was an absurd decision given the one thing he lacks is acceleration.
When he was moved to 12 he was our first choice FB and it wasn't close, and I'd like to see him moved back given how poor our back three have been lately.
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@BorderJB said in All Blacks 2025:
Have players become protected due to their brand power for the All Blacks brand??
It's like its no longer a NZ rep team but a club/franchise.i dont feel anyone we currently have has the brand recognition of former players, yeah they can get sabbatical gigs but non of them are getting the rig out for a toffee pop add
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
I can't believe people are calling for Jordie back to 15.
Do people forget how slow and laborious he was on the counter? Or trying to link up in the line to feed the wingers??
And he isn't that much better than Dmac in the air so why would we want to sacrifice so much offensive capability for near zero gain on the aerial side of the game?
I think JB would be top 3 in the air from the squad. Clarke being the best.
None are as good as Jane, Dagg, Kahui or Smith in the air. Its like we forgot the reason we went to those players.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
@BorderJB said in All Blacks 2025:
Have players become protected due to their brand power for the All Blacks brand??
It's like its no longer a NZ rep team but a club/franchise.i dont feel anyone we currently have has the brand recognition of former players, yeah they can get sabbatical gigs but non of them are getting the rig out for a toffee pop add
The current stars are spoiled rotten. Buck was one of our greatest captains, he got unceremoniously dumped. Now they just give caps away to some of the older guys
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@BorderJB said in All Blacks 2025:
Have players become protected due to their brand power for the All Blacks brand??
It's like its no longer a NZ rep team but a club/franchise.Maybe but more than anything winning protects the brand and when its a loss its a close loss. Capitulation is completely unacceptable to the brand.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
I can't believe people are calling for Jordie back to 15.
Do people forget how slow and laborious he was on the counter? Or trying to link up in the line to feed the wingers??
And he isn't that much better than Dmac in the air so why would we want to sacrifice so much offensive capability for near zero gain on the aerial side of the game?
I think JB would be top 3 in the air from the squad. Clarke being the best.
None are as good as Jane, Dagg, Kahui or Smith in the air. Its like we forgot the reason we went to those players.
something ive noticed, they all try and take high balls on their chest....and i know thats taught as the safer option...but i also cant help but think the best in the world should be able to do better than the safe option, especially when we see the regular situation of it bouncing off their chest forward...... when i look at AFL taking marks above their head...yes a smaller ball but also one without any grip....i wonder.....
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@Kiwiwomble And that's the problem. No player should ever be bigger than any shirt or jersey, let alone The Black Jersey.
That we have players who think they are bigger than The Black Jersey speaks of appalling management.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Yep, it really feels like we have lost our All Blacks to the corporate world and perhaps for good.
Fozzie's book says as much; the Commercial team at NZR is increasingly driving decisions to ensure profitability... and if it's anything like RA, for the benefit of their own KPIs.
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@NTA The long golden era of NZ Rugby was great while it lasted. But it's gone.
My hope is that there are still enough people involved in the grassroots of the game in New Zealand who understand its core values who will eventually wrestle back control from the corporate muppets.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@NTA The long golden era of NZ Rugby was great while it lasted. But it's gone.
My hope is that there are still enough people involved in the grassroots of the game in New Zealand who understand its core values who will eventually wrestle back control from the corporate muppets.
Well, when you talk to people involved in the grassroots, it isn't exactly shining.
School programs warehousing players, club scene struggling particularly in regional areas, and more competition from weekend work, other sports, and people not having the time to volunteer.
I think at the top level it is still going to be good, in terms of winning percentage etc, but difficult to re-create the McCaw years.
Sounds like Australia and the Macqueen era TBH.
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@brodean was more than one occasion on Saturday when more than 1 player went for the ball, and IIRC it was a forward trunddling back and interfering with our back coming forward. Do they not call anymore?
The forwards should be working back be in position to secure the ball from the catch, not getting in the way, just more evidence these guys are not on the same page.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Read one earlier where Richard Loe was questioning SB as well, form and leadership.
Said when watchign several times in the 'huddles' too many people were talking, he wasnt the 'leader'
I'm not disagreeing, but I think that captain change suits the media. It seems incredibly hard for them to even consider that Razor isn't the right guy for the role.
I think the main difference with the media between fozzie and razor ,
With Fozzie they believed we had a super coach in waiting ( razor ) and he will have all the solutions
Now they are dumbfounded it isn’t looking so good and they don’t have a plan B to speak of
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@upthelanders said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean I 100% agree with this, Leicester at 12, Jordie to 15, Will and Carter on the wings.
He needs a Super Rugby season to show what he has there at least. I don't really see him being better than Lam at 12 and I don't see either of them moving JB from there.
and unlike Jordie Lam can play wing. And has played 13 as well at a pinch.
But:I don't really see <Crusader> being better than <Blues> at 12 and I don't see either of them moving <not Crusader but Captain Crusader's brother> from there.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2025:
@upthelanders said in All Blacks 2025:
Will has 2 bad games under the high ball and everyone goes into a panic
Correct me if I’m wrong but I didn’t see him drop one high ball the other day and his defence was very strong. Still the best outside back in NZ by a long shot.
Not just this game, ask @Bones, he mentions it over and over again. He makes poor mistakes that a lot of people forget because he makes a great run.
He's a winger.
Asking Bones about Will Jordan is like asking Hilary Clinton about the 2016 US election outcome….
Will is still growing into the full back position at this level. I see a lot of similarities with what happened with Ben Smith and his up and down performances when they shifted him from the right to fullback.
We will never win a world cup with Jordan starting in the outside backs. Maybe he could ask Ben Smith for a signed picture of him holding it?
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
Ant Strachan one of the few calling for Barrett to be moved aside. He called for Scott to be removed as captain and Ardie be made captain, Jordie be moved to 15, and a big movement on defense and aerially. Could have gone further as he clearly has some thoughts on change there, but wouldn't elucidate.
In response to questions about the background (i.e., coaches) he questioned the attitude towards defense and how that is coming out as a lack of defensive integrity.
He also questioned the clarity for players of their understanding of the jersey, their role, and commitment to it over the entire course of the game. He was still not prepared to say anything negative about specific coaches or players though.
Interviewer straight out asked him if Razor should go, and he avoided it. He talked about Razor's focus on culture and said that he should get more time in comparison to Foster. He is the second person to respond by saying that Foster got more shit because there was a 'ready to go' replacement in the wings (Jamie Wall was saying the same on another pod).
Putting Savea as captain is literally ignoring the elephant in the room. He is part of the problem.
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At this stage Cody is the only guy who fits the veteran captain criteria for me. Ardie is an amazing athlete, but the back row lacks balance because we can't seem to build complementary pieces around him. I don't know how vocal he is though. JB is definitely more vocal during games than SB
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
At this stage Cody is the only guy who fits the veteran captain criteria for me. Ardie is an amazing athlete, but the back row lacks balanace because we can't seem to build complementary pieces around him. I don't know how vocal he is though. JB is definitely more vocal during games than SB
Codie should have been named captain after 2019.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
Ant Strachan one of the few calling for Barrett to be moved aside. He called for Scott to be removed as captain and Ardie be made captain, Jordie be moved to 15, and a big movement on defense and aerially. Could have gone further as he clearly has some thoughts on change there, but wouldn't elucidate.
In response to questions about the background (i.e., coaches) he questioned the attitude towards defense and how that is coming out as a lack of defensive integrity.
He also questioned the clarity for players of their understanding of the jersey, their role, and commitment to it over the entire course of the game. He was still not prepared to say anything negative about specific coaches or players though.
Interviewer straight out asked him if Razor should go, and he avoided it. He talked about Razor's focus on culture and said that he should get more time in comparison to Foster. He is the second person to respond by saying that Foster got more shit because there was a 'ready to go' replacement in the wings (Jamie Wall was saying the same on another pod).
Putting Savea as captain is literally ignoring the elephant in the room. He is part of the problem.
Smacks of the NZRU commercial department having a say on who should be playing to help with their social media content generation and strategic objective to win hearts and minds
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
Ant Strachan one of the few calling for Barrett to be moved aside. He called for Scott to be removed as captain and Ardie be made captain, Jordie be moved to 15, and a big movement on defense and aerially. Could have gone further as he clearly has some thoughts on change there, but wouldn't elucidate.
In response to questions about the background (i.e., coaches) he questioned the attitude towards defense and how that is coming out as a lack of defensive integrity.
He also questioned the clarity for players of their understanding of the jersey, their role, and commitment to it over the entire course of the game. He was still not prepared to say anything negative about specific coaches or players though.
Interviewer straight out asked him if Razor should go, and he avoided it. He talked about Razor's focus on culture and said that he should get more time in comparison to Foster. He is the second person to respond by saying that Foster got more shit because there was a 'ready to go' replacement in the wings (Jamie Wall was saying the same on another pod).
Putting Savea as captain is literally ignoring the elephant in the room. He is part of the problem.
Smacks of the NZRU commercial department having a say on who should be playing to help with their social media content generation and strategic objective to win hearts and minds
Honestly, if I see one more social media video that mentions either Savea prattling on about Jesus, the Barrett’s doing something thick, or someone being Dutch, I’m throwing myself out the window
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Ant explained his reasoning as Ardie plays much better as captain (e.g., at MP) as he seems to want and enjoy the extra responsibility- in contrast to Barrett who seems to carry it as extra weight.
I agree with the comments above that Taylor makes a better option, but this coaching group will not drop Ardie. He’s also an 80 minute player so I can understand the reasoning and I do think they should have gone that way.
